Critics Roast Energy Secretary For Telling Poor People To Buy Solar Panels

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: infolurker

I expect nothing less from the witch who governed my state for a stretch.

“And in five years, you’re going to be blown away!” Remember that “gem”?! Also being from Michigan myself, I cringe at the very sight of this scumbag.

a reply to: StoutBroux

Not only that, but it only actually matters if you end up with actual tax liability.

originally posted by: markovian
a reply to: carewemust
Paying for them for 25 years

I just got a quote for 88k 300 a month for 25 years told them to go jump off a bridge

And the 26% off is on your taxes for 5 years if you don't owe that in 5 years you won't get it so low income families won't see much if anything

Wow...the Solar Guy in Costco keeps trying to get me interested, but I've never given him much time. He keeps talking about the savings, and not the cost. So that's how they do it. LONG TERM PAYMENT PLANS.

People will be shocked when they find out how little their electric car is worth after a few years too.

a reply to: markovian

In New Zealand we can get a solar kit to power a 3-4 bedroom house for $13 thousand nz dollars. That is for total off grid, solar panels,batteries,inverters etc.
That's about $9 thousand us dollars.
Nz has nearly highest prices for anything, this is strange.

Warning - Sad image.

"Green energy" Windmills are killing American Bald Eagles.

truthsocial.com...

a reply to: strongfp

Itd be nice if we did find a way to implement alot more sonal panels.

I hope we can switch to more earth-friendly energy sources in the future.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

Earth friendly? I presume you just ignore the rare earth mining practices employed to get those solar panels and how devastating they are to the environment, or is it just that what happens in third world countries in mines run by Chinese interests using poor black and brown children as slave labor humping up toxic payloads doesn't happen in your backyard, so it doesn't matter.

You get to feel all smug about it because your hands aren't quite directly dirty.

originally posted by: markovian
a reply to: carewemust
Paying for them for 25 years

I just got a quote for 88k 300 a month for 25 years told them to go jump off a bridge

And the 26% off is on your taxes for 5 years if you don't owe that in 5 years you won't get it so low income families won't see much if anything

I was thinking about getting solar for my home. I have plenty of yard space to mount panels on the ground, plenty of indoor space for batteries and inverters, I figured I had an ideal setup. Being a do-it-yourself type I started thinking about how many panels, batteries, mounting hardware, etc. I would need to be off the grid. Heck, I could start small and expand.

Then I saw an one of those "no up front cost" ads and figured I'd give them a call. The salesman seemed very enthusiastic when he googled my house and saw the space I had available and he wanted to send someone out to give me an estimate. After a series of questions, he asked what my credit score was. I told him I didn't know, I don't borrow money. He asked me if I could find out my credit score. I said probably, but why? He said he couldn't send anyone out to give me an estimate until he had my credit score.

That didn't make sense to me. But a couple of hours later I realized: They're not selling solar power systems, they're selling loans.

I'd still like to have a solar power system. I guess I'll just have to design and build it myself.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, everything should be accounted for. That included. We should be looking for new and inovated solutions that are ethical.

I dont understand this war and aggression for energy solutions.

Its like how i got called a liberal commie for wanting to ban plastic bags.

This is the modern equivalent of "Let them eat cake."

According to legend, that phrase (actually in French: "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche") was spoken by Queen Marie Antoinette just prior to the French Revolution (where Marie actually and literally lost her head). It was uttered as a response to a report that the peasants were upset because they had no bread to eat; it was so offensive because those same peasants typically had never been able to eat the richer bread (aka "cake") that Marie enjoyed daily; read was almost their entire diet. It is said to show exactly how far out of touch with the common people Marie and her husband, King Louis XVI, were.

Similarly, in response to the common people complaining that they could not afford food, gas, and utilities, this Granholm lady replies with "Let them invest." Most lower-class people have never had money to invest!

There are so many things wrong with this proposal it is completely ludicrous. Firstly, the lower-class person who owns a home is rare... most people at the lower end of the economic scale rent. They do not have the resources or income to justify a mortgage. So are they supposed to invest thousands of dollars to fix up their landlord's house? How exactly is that going to help them?

Maybe she is expecting the landlords to make these investments... OK, so that will raise the rent for the people already living in poverty. Landlords are not going to lose money on their houses! Anything they put out on a house they expect to make back, usually within a year or two at most.

Then let's talk about the financing... 25 years? Sure that will drop the payments low, but don't forget that after ten years at best the solar cells will have to be replaced/repaired or they will produce only a fraction of the power they did when new, and possibly no power at all. So, even if someone saved enough to make the payments at first, by the time ten years rolls around they are back to paying almost as much for electricity as before, plus another 15 years of solar cell payments on a dead system (unless of course, they can shell out a few thousand to have it repaired).

Oh, and all that power they will be selling back to the power company? Yes, that is completely possible to do. However, there is something they are not telling you: electricity at the wholesale level is not sold at a fixed price! A power distribution company may pay one price for power during a hot weekend day in August when everyone is at home, but pay a tiny fraction of that price in the dead of night when most people are asleep. Just throwing out round figures for example's sake, let's say electricity is going for $0.10 per kilowatt hour during peak times wholesale cost. At night, it might be as little as $0.02 or even less! The power company then marks it all up to a single price, say $0.25 per kilowatt hour to cover their cost of all the power lines and maintenance. Do you really think they are going to buy power back for $0.25 a kilowatt hour?

No, they're not. The law in most places says they have to pay for power returned to them, but it does not specify how much... it only says the "normal wholesale cost." Well, what's the "normal wholesale cost"? That;s what they pay for electricity from the power plants. Those power plants have some mighty expensive equipment to monitor not only how much electricity they provide, but also when it was provided. You so not have that equipment, so no matter when the power was sold, the power company will pay you for it at the lowest price they pay the power plant(s) that produce most of their power.

And it's all legal. Unless you care to spend a few million $$$ on equipment that will log how much power went out at what time.

So here's what the solar cell debacle boils down to... Granholm is suggesting that poor folks take out a major 25-year loan on something that will pretty much be useless in ten years, to have it installed on someone else's property, in order to cut the cost of their power bills less than the cost of the payments and in the process help the power companies by supplying them with cheap power during peak demand.

And of course, who makes solar cells? That would be... China. The same China who makes the batteries for the new electric vehicles. So China makes a lot of money; the banks make a lot of interest (money); the power companies make a lot of money by buying power at a discount; and the people who this crazy scheme is supposed to be helping are paying for it.

Typical.

TheRedneck

a reply to: StoutBroux

I don't know where you got that excerpt, but it's wrong. They are mixing and matching "kilowatts" with "kilowatt hours." That's a common and old trick. A kilowatt is not a kilowatt hour and a kilowatt hour is not a kilowatt. The figures they are tossing out make absolutely no sense.

A kilowatt is 1000 watts, which is about the equivalent of 1-1/3 horsepower. A kilowatt hour is 1000 watts maintained for an hour. Electricity is sold by the kilowatt hour, not by the kilowatt. Solar cells are rated by the kilowatt, not the kilowatt hour.

TheRedneck

a reply to: CptGreenTea

I dont understand this war and aggression for energy solutions.

It's not a war on energy solutions... it's a war on energy rip-offs. We have snake oil salesmen today from every walk of life trying to convince people that they can do something that simply cannot be done, or at the least can only be done by sinking huge investments into the scheme du jour for little to no benefit (and often a future detriment).

I would love to see more energy sources that lessen oil dependence. Nothing would thrill me more! But I also know that just because some salesman says it will work, it does not follow that it will work. Show me a new power source that has a good chance of working (like wave energy) and I'll be right there with you applauding it. Show me a bottle of snake oil that claims to do the impossible, and I won't be.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: CptGreenTea
a reply to: ketsuko

Well, everything should be accounted for. That included. We should be looking for new and inovated solutions that are ethical.

I dont understand this war and aggression for energy solutions.

Its like how i got called a liberal commie for wanting to ban plastic bags.

Serious question ...

Do you honestly believe that this Climate Change Bill (or whatever they want to call it) is designed to combat man made climate change?

If so, why?

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: RazorV66

But where do I call to get the free work crews out to install new windows, insulation and heat pumps?

You don’t have to pay for anything,” she said,

Where is the 800 number to schedule the appointments?

If you've got that number, let me know.
I was just quoted 50 grand for the windows I wanted to buy just to cut down on heating oil costs, since this administration has pushed #2 fuel over $5 a gallon.

This house is new to me, but looking around my guess is I'll go through 1500 gallons this heating season if I want to be comfortable.
After I spend weeks of my free time mitigating loss and months of suffering indoor temperatures not suitable for yeast, I'll get it down to 800 gallons or so. My wife will be thrilled.

Good thing my paycheck has kept up with the 2.3 percent inflation rate, maybe some day I'll get ahead and be able to afford to add a wood stove, and get back to pre-1970s relative heating costs!

I got an estimate of 60k for the complete shebang.

They were all to happy to "allow" me to put my home up for collateral.


This is a scam, plain and simple.

The only redeeming quality is the leaps and bounds solar makes.

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
a reply to: markovian

In New Zealand we can get a solar kit to power a 3-4 bedroom house for $13 thousand nz dollars. That is for total off grid, solar panels,batteries,inverters etc.
That's about $9 thousand us dollars.
Nz has nearly highest prices for anything, this is strange.

Batteries alone are 20K.

I got a generac instead at a quarter of the cost.

a reply to: infolurker

Here is the weird thing…

The richer you are the more free crap you get, weird but true.

I found I could not get solar installed on my home because I live in a motor home.
So I looked into getting panels from the local solar installers. They are banned from selling solar panels for DIY projects by the state of Calif.
I have a friend that lives in a double wide mobile home. And they will not put solar panels on them by state rules. So he asked about ground mounting them on poles on his 5 acres next to his home. Their answer was the state does not allow them to do that.
The state also does not allow the solar to be hooked up to battery storage systems, it must feed the power grid.
He did get the panels to power his well and the controller and 24 volt pump from an out-of-state company.
This saves him a lot of money over the cost of running his well off grid power, as the well pump runs when the sun is out and fills a 1000 gallon water tank, and using a 24 volt rv water pump feeds his house through a battery system for 24 hour use. he also has another 24 volt rv water pump that waters his property through a drip watering system and on timers.
He plans to add to the system over the years and slowly cut his grid power till the power company screams.
I told him he will know when the power company replaces his meter, thinking it's gone bad.