Lack of respect for the US flag.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ancientlight

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ancientlight

The US flag stands for the USA.

The USA incarcerates more of its citizens, both per capita and in absolute numbers, than any other country in the world. And yet its crime rate is about the medium for a country. Think about that!

Also, at a time when most other countries had abolished slavery, the USA embraced it. The US Constitution was written to encompass slavery. The US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery. Think about that!

The US is still rife with ethnic division, there are still attitudes formed when slavery was legal, that are prevalent and causing ongoing actual issues right now. The US has not progressed beyond those ethnic issues. There were riots only last year about it. Think about that!

The USA has very poor the distribution of wealth. Probably the worst in the world. In other countries, billionaires don't get away with not paying tax, or paying very little, while the poor are heavily burdened and are often prosecuted for tax related issues. On any night in the US, more than half a million people are homeless. About 3.6% of Americans are unemployed. By US standards, 37.2 million are living below the poverty line. Think about that!

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

I don't agree that the US is still rife with ethnic division. No more than any other country at least. If anything, the US is a 'melting pot' of cultures. I do agree that billionaires should pay tax! It's insane that they get to evade paying a fair amount of tax. But, compared to NK and China the US is a free country.

Imagine a country where everyone is so indoctrinated that they keep repeating jingoistic catch-phrases about themselves, despite having a very poor record in regard to the things the catch-phrases purport.

For decades the media have reinforced the chants with such as superheroes 'fighting' for "truth, justice and the American way", but the American way is highly self-centered, acquisitive, militarily belligerent, disparaging of others, and corrupt if they can get away with it. If they get found out - it's all denial, hypocrisy and enforcement of privilege.

I'm not denying that North Korea, or China have issues with human rights abuses. But in measurable terms, the USA does not come out as a shining light in the world.

What? "jingoistic catch-phrases about themselves" Not sure what you mean there. I do not agree with the US military involvement across the globe, or the corruption, obviously . But nobody on the other side ever listens to that? We are free . Although communism is actively trying to take over

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ancientlight

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

Our way of life isn't perfect, nor is it the best. However, we are not the least free country on the planet. Too often people equate economic prosperity with freedom. It is an element of freedom but not the entirety.

We have the freedom of speech, religion, assembly, to bear arms, to trial, etc. These freedoms are not trivial, they are the foundation to all freedoms. Without these, other freedoms cannot be won.

There is ethnic inequality in the US but it's not as bad as it's been in the past. Black people used to be killed without repercussion and the KKK ran towns, cities, and maybe even states. Yes, there is disparity but we are improving. Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that.

To say we are the least free country in the world is a fallacy and undermines the good points you make.

SPAM

a reply to: ancientlight

. Although communism is actively trying to take over

I hear this statement from the Q rightwing all the time. But from my prospective I see new mom and pop enterprises springing up all over the place. Stock mkt, bitcoin, active, people working for good wages, GDP on the upswing,
People with disposable income going to bars restrueants, football games, horse races, Casinos are full of gamblers,
I can still buy firearms and ammunition. I could go on and on....

That's not communism, that's good ole American Capitalism. The Entrepreneurial
spirit is alive and well for those willing to and stop the whine and get off the pitty pot. America isn't communist and by God it's the Land of Opportunity!! Comparatively, America is Paradise. Deal with it....

My honest opinion about any kind of nationalism or flag worship is that it is the most immature and childish hobby I can think of. I think it is wholly indicative of what someones value structure is like and how they they are likely to treat other people in the world. It makes me laugh.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

As a symbol of all those American ideals the flag should be treated with respect as you say. Traditions for flying, traditions for hoisting and lowering, traditions for folding and storage? Is putting the flag on crumply t shirts respecting that symbol?

Things have changed so much because people no longer care much for country.
Back in the 50s a Friend who had lost many buddies in the war, one torn to pieces in front of him when his parachute dragged him. He was a highly decorated WW2 hero, he stopped at a service station that was flying a dirty and torn American flag, this used to be against law or tradition.
He threw a tantrum and pulled down that flag, people today could not possibly understand what it means to those who died protecting the Country under that symbol that kept them going as they were in fear and danger in the worst conditions, unimaginable to most, cold or hot, hungry and tired exposed to disease and insects month after month far from their home the USA.

originally posted by: sputniksteve
My honest opinion about any kind of nationalism or flag worship is that it is the most immature and childish hobby I can think of. I think it is wholly indicative of what someones value structure is like and how they they are likely to treat other people in the world. It makes me laugh.

I personally agree we should never worship any symbol but you and most now have no idea of why that symbol meant so much to People in the past!
There are banners and flags throughout time and in the bible, not to be worshiped but having purpose.
owlcation.com...

a reply to: InwardDiver

There is ethnic inequality in the US but it's not as bad as it's been in the past.

It seems to me that that is because we have welcomed all races in the USA which was not true in most countries.
The problems between races is not different that the same discrimination within races like darker blacks being targeted by lighter ones.
The whole business is the same world wide. it all comes back to the fallen and sinful nature we have now.

Oh no, please don't trample or burn my US flag handmade in Indonesia/Myanmar/China/Singapore! My five bucks helps feed hungry children who work hard for their families.

originally posted by: InwardDiver

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ancientlight

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

Our way of life isn't perfect, nor is it the best. However, we are not the least free country on the planet. Too often people equate economic prosperity with freedom. It is an element of freedom but not the entirety.

We have the freedom of speech, religion, assembly, to bear arms, to trial, etc. These freedoms are not trivial, they are the foundation to all freedoms. Without these, other freedoms cannot be won.

There is ethnic inequality in the US but it's not as bad as it's been in the past. Black people used to be killed without repercussion and the KKK ran towns, cities, and maybe even states. Yes, there is disparity but we are improving. Somewhere along the line people have forgotten that.

To say we are the least free country in the world is a fallacy and undermines the good points you make.

Did you know that the US and China are the only countries that arrest citizens for walking across the road in the wrong way?

Just last week, Donald Trump's lawyers said they were initiating libel actions against CNN and several other media outlets. This is only possible because in the US, you don't have the freedom of speech you imagine.

Not that I agree with allowing the freedom of this predator, but could this be an indication that there is actually some control over religious freedoms in the US?: NXIVM sex cult leader Keith Raniere sentenced to 120 years in prison

Freedom of assembly?: ‘They set us up’: US police arrested over 10,000 protesters, many non-violent

Not that I agree with the 2nd amendment, but: Second Amendment Violations Targeted by Criminal Code Experts

And DENIAL OF JUSTICE - CRIMINAL PROCESS IN THE UNITED STATES

What many believe are their rights, protected under the US justice system, are not exactly true and there are many instances of those assumed rights not being applicable in the real world.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I get it, but I am still critical of it. Especially if "bible" examples are being added lol. I frankly don't care that much what it meant as a symbol to people that are dead and gone, that I may well have not respected or agreed with to begin with. I am sure there were a lot of people that venerated and took pride in the Nazi flag for instance, and "we" collectively don't really care that by not flying it we are hurting their feelings. I just flat out am disgusted by nationalism, and couldn't care less about the perceived veneration some people have for it. I personally think that people that get all up in arms over perceived disrespect of a rectangular material the least important to listen to. I know this comes off as super passive aggressive and pretty "holier than though" but it is the honest truth. I see all of this nationalism and flag worship as a stain on our country, and a very specific reason to be ashamed of it rather than proud. I also don't think that "I" or "we" are better than anyone else though.

Freedom of expression let tem burn an inanimate object....


Whats it change?

They vote for the same ppl who keep them down.


a reply to: ancientlight

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: SeaWorthy

I get it, but I am still critical of it. Especially if "bible" examples are being added lol. I frankly don't care that much what it meant as a symbol to people that are dead and gone, that I may well have not respected or agreed with to begin with. I am sure there were a lot of people that venerated and took pride in the Nazi flag for instance, and "we" collectively don't really care that by not flying it we are hurting their feelings. I just flat out am disgusted by nationalism, and couldn't care less about the perceived veneration some people have for it. I personally think that people that get all up in arms over perceived disrespect of a rectangular material the least important to listen to. I know this comes off as super passive aggressive and pretty "holier than though" but it is the honest truth. I see all of this nationalism and flag worship as a stain on our country, and a very specific reason to be ashamed of it rather than proud. I also don't think that "I" or "we" are better than anyone else though.

Nothing binds People together better than a symbol of what they stand for.
The symbol stands for freedom of the people.
Human beings are never cohesive without symbols of some kind.

I used to go out and salute the flag every night when it was lowered and they played Taps on base at three years old.

Hand over heart, the whole nine yards.

I always smile when I see her floating in the breeze, and I'm seeing her represented a lot more locally these days than before.

I'm taking this as a good sign.

originally posted by: ancientlight

I've seen it online in videos, certain groups of people attacking the US flag.

Here's what Putin said about the Russian national flag - www.abovetopsecret.com...