Freedom: Who actually has it?

a reply to: Vroomfondel


Ummm...the correct spelling is...free dumb...

FREE-DUMB





YouSir

a reply to: dandandat2

Interesting point, but, one of the more significant points of the ranking was actually the degree to which all things are available to all groups. Non-discrimination is a key rating point.

In many of the European nations it was the attempted assimilation of muslim immigrants/refugees that fractured the public. The resulting crime rate increases and the subsequent "profiling" of muslims that followed led to a segmented population and hard-mapped no-go zones.

Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, are a more homogenous society as you indicated. But that changed to a fairly significant degree with the influx of muslim economic opportunists and potential terrorists pretending to be refugees. I remember one news bit where some local women arranged a meet and greet party for the new muslim immigrants. The women who organized the party were raped by the guests of honor.

We have all seen articles over the last few years about no-go zones and heard the stories about law enforcement not doing their job when the suspects were muslim, and so on. Media has under-reported crimes by muslim immigrants and the muslims do not respond to western courts or their demands but instead rely on their own sharia law and its enforcement for their behavior.

The freedoms we are supposed to have, the basic human rights, are not enjoyed by all people around the world. In the more modern nations most people have freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etc. And there are still places where speaking your mind can land you in jail or worse. Some nations have excellent worker rights while others are virtually slaves and masters.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dandandat2

Interesting point, but, one of the more significant points of the ranking was actually the degree to which all things are available to all groups. Non-discrimination is a key rating point.

In many of the European nations it was the attempted assimilation of muslim immigrants/refugees that fractured the public. The resulting crime rate increases and the subsequent "profiling" of muslims that followed led to a segmented population and hard-mapped no-go zones.

Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, are a more homogenous society as you indicated. But that changed to a fairly significant degree with the influx of muslim economic opportunists and potential terrorists pretending to be refugees. I remember one news bit where some local women arranged a meet and greet party for the new muslim immigrants. The women who organized the party were raped by the guests of honor.

We have all seen articles over the last few years about no-go zones and heard the stories about law enforcement not doing their job when the suspects were muslim, and so on. Media has under-reported crimes by muslim immigrants and the muslims do not respond to western courts or their demands but instead rely on their own sharia law and its enforcement for their behavior.

The freedoms we are supposed to have, the basic human rights, are not enjoyed by all people around the world. In the more modern nations most people have freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etc. And there are still places where speaking your mind can land you in jail or worse. Some nations have excellent worker rights while others are virtually slaves and masters.

In recent years highly homogeneous countries like Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands might be seeing an increase in minority groups, but they still rank very low in measures of fractionalization.

When the dominant sub-culture has very little worry about lossing power to the minority sub-culture they have a lot more breathing room to treat the minority group with less discrimination ... because they are secure in the knowledge that they will not actually loss any power.

In a society where the dominant sub-culture and the minority sub-cultures are more evenly sized there is a lot more tension that must be overcome. The likely result will be each culture trying to dominant the other in one form or another.

Now discrimination is wrong no matter what; but we can't ignore that achieving it is easier for some countries over others. And that those countries that have a harder time of it but still manage to progress forward might be doing so because at their core they are more free.

This all subjective ofcourse; I don't know how correct I am. But I do know that freedom house is clearly missing important information in its ranking.

SPAM

a reply to: watchitburn

I hate to disagree with your points, but being an Aussie, living in a major city, I haven't been locked down since the covid BS began. The singular week I had off work since 2020 that was covid related, was when I actually had Covid and felt too rubbish to go in. And our "lockdowns" were not some government crackdown on freedom. Where I am, it was simply, "if you don't need to go out, dont go out" for a single week. I still went shopping at my local shopping center for my weekly groceries during "lockdown" and went for my morning run that I do every day. Free from any rubber bullets or tyranny.

The most annoying part for myself, was sporting clubs and events were cancelled for a good month or two, and my local gun range was closed...

a reply to: Vroomfondel

99 New Zealand
98 Netherlands
98 Uruguay
98 Canada
97 Australia

These ranking are so bogus. Anyone who thinks people are more free in New Zealand or Australia then they are in the US, clearly hasn't lived in NZ or Australia. Even going back before the pandemic this ranking is still nonsensical.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
You sound like you've lived in AUS, what freedoms do you think we lack down here? (Aside from semi-automatic firearms, which are not banned, just prohibitively hard to be licensed for)

a reply to: Badams

Let me guess, you live in NSW or the ACT. But saying you could still buy groceries and go for a jog once a day doesn't really tell us much. Of course you were allowed to buy food, and of course you are allowed to get some exercise. In Victoria I think they were allowed one or two hours of exercise each day and one of the only valid reasons to outside was to go shopping. If you think that's freedom then you are living in a fantasy land. Victoria had some of the longest and most harsh lock-downs in the entire world.

We were more lucky in NSW and the ACT because those states weren't controlled by Labor lunatics. We were living a mostly normal life right up until the vaccine push started, then they tried to enforce a bunch of bogus rules on us. But of course we would elect Labor into power despite their authoritarian attitude. It seems people enjoy being treated like serfs, and the exact same mentality can be found in NZ, it might even be worse in NZ. Even long before the pandemic I wrote multiple threads about our rapidly declining freedoms.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

No, Queensland. Basically, during the two "lockdowns" it was dont leave for frivolous activities. medical appointments? sure groceries? sure petrol in your car? sure. If you decided to have a house party, you were probably going to get a visit from the cops telling you to stop being a ass and go home - maybe with a fine. You're making it out to be far worse than it was - in my own experience.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Canada in the top ten on freedom ??

With Dictator Trudeau still in power ?
Using Covid to increase his personal power and pushing for USELESS lockdowns like on Communist China!

Trudeau shutdown a peaceful protest against him, falsely accusing protestors of racism while he, Trudeau, has been caught ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS, of wearing BLACKFACE

Trudeau tried to FREEZE the bank accounts of the protestors and anyone who merely contributed money to the the protestors.


And this is supposed to be "freedom" ????

People in Florida and Texas are FAR more FREE than in Canada !!!

a reply to: Badams

Every state had different rules, I don't know much about the rules enforced in Queensland, but I do know Queensland had some of the lowest case numbers throughout most of the pandemic, so the rules probably were not as bad as some other states. But still, not being able to leave your house except for crucial activities is not what I call freedom. Also, Queensland had some pretty stupid border rules for a long time, which caused a lot of suffering for people separated from their families.

You are clearly missing the underlying point, which is our lack of liberty compared to other places in the world, when you compare how we responded to the pandemic and how other countries responded. Especially considering we have one of the most sparsely distributed populations of any first world nation. Moreover, it's our willingness to capitulate to these dictators which really concerns me, we've lost all respect for individual liberty, while still thinking we have the most freedom in the world, it's ridiculous.

EDIT: and if I'm exaggerating the lock-downs in Victoria, why did two different people in Melbourne burn themselves alive in protest? source source

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

There was two singular week lockdowns here in a two year period (not exactly a deprivation of my liberty), not to mention Australia has also has one of the lowest mortality rates during the whole thing, mostly due to the lockdowns and the (not really enforced; just suggested) mask mandates. Why did people burn themselves? crazy people are everywhere, what can I say. I feel pretty free here my dude, I can pretty much do whatever I please. I own guns and shoot regularly, I own race cars and race regularly, I also regularly tell politicians they suck, both online and in person. Im free to practice whatever religion I choose - not that I choose any. I can go protest whatever I please if I choose to. I don't know dude, I feel pretty free.

After re-reading your reply - yes, the Borders being closed was a dumbass move by the gov. I didnt agree with that at all. It was only for a month or two though if I remember correctly.

a reply to: Badams

not to mention Australia has also has one of the lowest mortality rates during the whole thing, mostly due to the lockdowns and the (not really enforced; just suggested) mask mandates.

If this were true, Victoria would have had the lowest case numbers, yet they had the highest. In NSW we didn't even have to wear masks throughout most of the pandemic, I could walk into almost any shop without a mask, meanwhile in Victoria they weren't even allowed to leave their house except for critical needs or exercise. Our low case numbers are simply a result of our sparsely distributed population and our warmer climate compared to many places.

Why did people burn themselves? crazy people are everywhere, what can I say.

So how come it didn't happen anywhere else but happened twice in the same city? If I had to live with the extended lockdowns that Victorians went through my sanity would be pushed to the limit as well. We have caused immense mental damage and economic damage, and it clearly wasn't worth it. We know it wasn't worth it because the least locked downed states and least locked down countries managed fine.

I can go protest whatever I please if I choose to. I don't know dude, I feel pretty free.

I bet the people who protested the lock downs and the vaccine mandates don't feel the same way. You "feeling" free doesn't prove anything, because I certainly don't feel free at all, I feel trapped under an authoritarian regime that couldn't care less about our individual freedoms, and I'm in one of the better states of Australia. And being able to race a car is not a measure of freedom, it goes much deeper than that. Plus you might not be able to race combustion engine cars much longer if the climate activists get their way.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Man, I genuinely feel sorry for your outlook. You're most certainly welcome to your own opinion and clearly are quite steadfast in it, so I wont push the issue. As a final remark, I'll say, if you feel so negatively about this country, another great thing is you are allowed to buy a plane ticket and find your greener pastures elsewhere.

a reply to: M5xaz

I don't agree with the list either, I just report it.

But, they did use their own criteria for determining rank. For example, one of the criteria was worker rights and the ability to unionize if they chose to. That has nothing to do with the things you described.

We all have an idea of what freedom means. But that list was generated using their criteria. And in that list the US didn't make the top 50. Frankly, that doesn't surprise me at all. We have lost so much. Worse yet, many of us chose that loss, voted for it, cheated it into power, and celebrate our decline daily.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

it think right now the people of the sentinnel islands are probably the most free people on earth

a reply to: Badams

Oh don't worry I have seriously considered moving to somewhere with more respect for freedom and liberty, but most of my friends and family live here, plus most western nations are turning into authoritarian nanny states so it probably doesn't matter much where I live in the long run. Oh, not to mention, I couldn't fly out of Australia even if I wanted to because I'm unvaccinated. Last time I checked the rules hadn't changed for international flights out of Australia. So I'm pretty much imprisoned here. Kind of ironic considering the history of Australia.

Australia: From Convicts to Crybabies

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: M5xaz

I don't agree with the list either, I just report it.

But, they did use their own criteria for determining rank. For example, one of the criteria was worker rights and the ability to unionize if they chose to. That has nothing to do with the things you described.

We all have an idea of what freedom means. But that list was generated using their criteria. And in that list the US didn't make the top 50. Frankly, that doesn't surprise me at all. We have lost so much. Worse yet, many of us chose that loss, voted for it, cheated it into power, and celebrate our decline daily.

Well, console yourself that while the USA has fallen, you still have more real freedom than in Trudeau's dictatorship of Canada

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Nobody is really free unless they have 100 % economic security and are not reliant on any income from being a wage slave.

Said by someone who is absolutely clueless as to the meaning of the word freedom.