Why Russia feels surrounded

A lot of people want to slam dunk the conversation by saying Russia attacked first. And they did. There's no denying that.

But are you openminded enough to watch a 7 minute summary showing beyond a shadow of a doubt how nato(the west) crept ever closer to Russia's border to the point where they deployed Mirv-multi thermonuclear warheads so close to Russia that they are able to overwhelm any anti-ballistic missile defense system that Putin may have?


The intentions of this global theater has not been accurately portrayed by msm I think we can all admit to that.

This is not the mudpit.

a reply to: 19Bones79

What exactly did Russia do to make nato want to get that close? There has to be 2 sides here for sure.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: 19Bones79

What exactly did Russia do to make nato want to get that close? There has to be 2 sides here for sure.

They pissed off the CIA

a reply to: 727Sky

I’d just like to see cause and effect laid out side by side so I can compare them and sit back and sip a beer and say mmmhmm

a reply to: 727Sky

Who hasn't?

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: 19Bones79

What exactly did Russia do to make nato want to get that close? There has to be 2 sides here for sure.

Remember the Soviet Union? Anyone? They murdered a lot of people and sent them to gulags and so on. That's why most of Eastern Europe joined NATO soon as they could.

originally posted by: Cutepants

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: 19Bones79

What exactly did Russia do to make nato want to get that close? There has to be 2 sides here for sure.

Remember the Soviet Union? Anyone? They murdered a lot of people and sent them to gulags and so on. That's why most of Eastern Europe joined NATO soon as they could.

IDK about all that, but I do remember Boris yeltsin and that ridiculous hematoma on his head 🧐


On a serious note basically your synopsis reads to me as if Russia did it to themselves because they were being assholes. Is that what your saying?

a reply to: 19Bones79

Maybe if Putin decides to become part of the civilised world and less of a pariah state, they would feel less surrounded,

a reply to: 19Bones79
I'm an old student of history. On the other hand I'm aware of how long (nearly three centuries) Russia has been trying to impose authority on western Europe.

On the other hand, I don't need to look at the video to know that it's got a point. Trying to extend EU influence into the Ukraine was tilting the balance rather too much in the opposite direction. The Ukraine was the original centre of the old version of Russia. Obviously the people feel distinct from the "Muscovites" of the north and don't want to be in the same country. Fair enough. But it was still a mistake to begin drawing them into a "western" orbit.

At this point Toynbee would have been pointing out how much Russian "expansionism" has been directed towards gaining access to the oceans of the world. Hence the occupation of the Baltic states. Hence the friendship with Pakistan and the drive south into Afghanistan. Hence the demand for possession of the Crimea. Historically, they feel hemmed in by geography.

a reply to: alldaylong


Enjoy the nuclear holocaust, remember to duck and cover.

a reply to: DISRAELI


I appreciate you sharing that.

Admittedly I know very little and what little I know I question.

I do believe that all sides are tainted and cooler heads should prevail under 'normal' circumstances, except now we have leaders hoping for escalation.

Basically it comes down to a nasty little man who bullies children, beats up anyone who disagrees with him, and demands everyone in the street respect him and always does as he says. Then, when all his neighbours decide they have had enough and don't like him, and turn their back on him, he complains that he did nothing wrong and why are they all ganging up on him?

a reply to: 19Bones79

nato is a defensive alliance. who in god's name believes that france, germany or italy want to attack the russians? what putin has achieved now: the fins and the swedes want to join nato. because they are safer with it than without it.

a reply to: Brotherman

Russia did it to themselves because they were being assholes. Is that what your saying?

I'm not the one who wrote it, but there is truth in that assertion.

But Putin's fixation on NATO is misleading. Russia and its perception of what it considers a secure or insecure international situation goes back for centuries.

Russia has been invaded from the west (and north) four times since the 1600s if I'm counting correctly. So, they have at points in history been the invaded, vice the invaders.

But like Disraeli points out, the Russians were also pushing to the west and basically colonizing entire peoples along the way, all in the name of a "secure situation".

Yeah, that breeds huge resentment and those peoples bolted the moment the chance came along. It happened after the 1917 revolution and it happened again in 1989.

Bottom line is, the Russians (and the Germans) have never learned how to impose their will on other countries without making it a hugely painful exercise that ultimately backfires.

Russia, like all countries, has a right to exist without feeling like it is going to be invaded at any given moment. But that has nothing to do with what is going on in Ukraine now.

And people asserting that certain countries, because of their proximity to Russia, can't associate with whom they wish on an international basis, are doing nothing more than pushing for new colonial regimes. Maybe we can leave all that behind in the mid-20th century?

Cheers

a reply to: loufo

Who in gods name still believes that France, Germany or Italy are not in lockstep with a new world order?

a reply to: 19Bones79

How dare you question the good offices of Merkel, Macron, and the banker dude running Italy ?

😂

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

And people asserting that certain countries, because of their proximity to Russia, can't associate with whom they wish on an international basis, are doing nothing more than pushing for new colonial regimes. Maybe we can leave all that behind in the mid-20th century?

What is your opinion on the Cuban missile crisis?

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Yeah my bad. That's why I'm turning this thread into a musical.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

And people asserting that certain countries, because of their proximity to Russia, can't associate with whom they wish on an international basis, are doing nothing more than pushing for new colonial regimes. Maybe we can leave all that behind in the mid-20th century?

What is your opinion on the Cuban missile crisis?

Bones,

Can you clarify?

My quote mentions colonial regimes.

I don't recall the CMC forcing Cuba to abandon Russian sponsorship.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Let me simplify. Tomorrow news breaks of Russian icbms pointed directly at the states from Cuba.

How would you feel about that?