NATO SAYS 7000-15000 DEAD RUSSIANS-Evidence?

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: PassiveSeeker


so your saying because XX campaign/conflict and had YY deaths. That this SPECIFIC conflict has to follow those numbers?
are you that much of a supporter or just that willfully ignorant.

you bring 180,000 plus people to an INVASION with modern weapons designed to KILL people and destroy equipment with one or two shots (depending) and less than 500 can only reasonably be killed?

we KNOW such facts as a russian tank has minimum a crew of three and each kill from an ANTI TANK missile will KILL THE CREW.
that its more than reasonable that given they have NOT WON that over 200 tanks alone (thats being conservative) have been destroyed. that means MINUMN in tanks alone 600 deaths (3 X 200).

again ANOTHER of someone wanting to ignore any number , statistic, or even estimate that would tarnish the side/agenda/view they hold.

yet again ANOTHER example of the points i made in my comment

scrounger

I think you missed what I said completely. I’m tired of the low number Russian casualty sayers. Common sense dictates both sides are in the multiple of thousands. I said I am sure they are approaching same amount of casualties in this month as the 10 year long invasion of Russia in Afghanistan.

Many of our, uh….resident experts on this thread alone have been toting no way more than even a thousand. Not even 500. Then Russia says, yeah, almost 2k. So it’s way higher. Comments are aging like milk in the sun.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

91.00 a barrel 30.00 discount. Less than 2 years ago Russia was selling their oil for 5.00 a barrel. It’s 51% of their economy now. A 200 billion dollar a year industry for them. And it now supports their rouble.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

Why are you saying it supports their ruble now?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yeah I was trying to figure out what exactly the rules are but I gave up.

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
Of course deaths went down, the invasion is the most intense part of it. You are as dumb as Biden if you think over 7,000-15,000 soldiers have been killed. The US didn’t lose that many soldiers in an entire year when they fought in Vietnam for 20 years. Russia has the second best military in the world against a 70th military that’s resorted to using civilians to fight. If those figures were right then Ukraine would wipe out Russias entire invading army in a year, with untrained guerrilla fighters. Bahahahahaha…. Gimme a Break. Join the military so you can understand it. I’ve lived on military bases around the world since I was born. My dad was a lifetime service member. Me and my 5 brothers all served tours around the world. Losing 1400 is a lot in a month. But it’s impossible to lose more than 5000 in a month with technology

But the invasion is still ongoing, and when fighting moves into the cities it gets much more infantry-heavy and bloody. And it took a while to send in all the troops in position around the border and then reinforcements and those Syrian mercenaries. Now things may have calmed down a bit, in week 5.

Untrained guerilla fighters are good for taking out supply trucks in occupied territory. But you're ignoring that Ukraine has been building up their army for 8 years. Putin made a huge mistake when he only took a little bit out of Ukraine. He bloodied them and forced them to realize that they have to reform their military. Like Machiavelli wrote: "Men should be either treated generously or destroyed, because they take revenge for slight injuries - for heavy ones they cannot." 8 years ago I bet they were suffering from all the same problems that plague Russia's army, but they were forced to change. Meanwhile, in 2012, Putin fired defence minister Anatoly Serdykov. Another mistake, replaced him with yes-man Shoigu who has allowed the army to stagnate.

And Vietnam was a very different war, guerilla war and not a conventional war between two modern armies. Russia attacked attacked across a wide front and tried to use blitzkrieg tactics but ran into logistical problems. You say it's impossible to loose more than 5000 in a month, that's meaningless. It depends on how many are fighting and how.

a reply to: Cutepants

Because Russia is only allowing their oil to be bought with their currency. The same thing the US had Saudi Arabia doing with its oil so the US could print all they wanted.
That’s why Russias ruble went up 30% Friday

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Your logic isn’t sound or you don’t understand markets. As the market goes up it has to retrace because of short selling and profit taking.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

Didn't happen yet and makes no difference if it does. Gazprom is already required to convert 80% of their income into rubles. And Putin can get the rest too if he wants to. So the end result for ruble value is the same.

a reply to: Cutepants

Then why did it already increase in value as of yesterday?
US and the EU then have to run ruble exchange payments through a third, intermediary currency such as the yuan. Effectively, the Russian demand for rubles for oil and gas will stabilize the Russian currency whilst also propping up the yuan, thus weakening sanctions.
Russia has Europe by the balls.
European ban on Russian energy imports would cause a 2.2% hit to production and trigger a eurozone recession. In addition, UK chancellor Rishi Sunak has been telling colleagues that the hit would be larger and would quickly cause a downturn worth £70 billion, or 3%, of gross domestic product in the UK. Hostile countries paid roughly $69 billion for gas from Gazprom, the Russian state-owned company. To make a similar scale of payments this year, countries will have to procure around 6-7 trillion rubles

a reply to: Cutepants

The end result is not the same because the Central Bank of Russia doesn’t have to spend its own dollars and euro reserves to prop up the ruble, like it is having to do now.

a reply to: mcsnacks77

Did it increase in value? I can't see any big change, looks like it's been around 0,010 dollars last few days. And why do you think they'd have to run through Yuan?

The end result is not the same because the Central Bank of Russia doesn’t have to spend its own dollars and euro reserves to prop up the ruble, like it is having to do now.

You aren't thinking this through. If they get paid in dollars and euros then they have more dollars and euros to convert into rubles, right? And if they get paid in rubles then the ruble gets stronger, but also they have less dollars and euros to sell. It's still their own money, whether it's euros or rubles and whether it came from their war chest or from gas sales.

originally posted by: PassiveSeeker

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: PassiveSeeker


so your saying because XX campaign/conflict and had YY deaths. That this SPECIFIC conflict has to follow those numbers?
are you that much of a supporter or just that willfully ignorant.

you bring 180,000 plus people to an INVASION with modern weapons designed to KILL people and destroy equipment with one or two shots (depending) and less than 500 can only reasonably be killed?

we KNOW such facts as a russian tank has minimum a crew of three and each kill from an ANTI TANK missile will KILL THE CREW.
that its more than reasonable that given they have NOT WON that over 200 tanks alone (thats being conservative) have been destroyed. that means MINUMN in tanks alone 600 deaths (3 X 200).

again ANOTHER of someone wanting to ignore any number , statistic, or even estimate that would tarnish the side/agenda/view they hold.

yet again ANOTHER example of the points i made in my comment

scrounger

I think you missed what I said completely. I’m tired of the low number Russian casualty sayers. Common sense dictates both sides are in the multiple of thousands. I said I am sure they are approaching same amount of casualties in this month as the 10 year long invasion of Russia in Afghanistan.

I think your right i misunderstood what you were trying to say and can admit my mistake

i AGREE with you that the reported numbers of russian casualties are way under reported.
where we disagree is i dont think the Ukrainians (while having underreported too) will be on par or close to russians.

the disparages of numbers will honestly (unless steam rolled over to which russian cant seem to do) show russia losing more

the other thing i would say is not to compare it to (pick a campaign, war, situation, whatever) because situations can and are different.

maybe if comparing apples to apples with specific battle, tactics, and maybe overall at the end.

but i think (going by you wanting to directly debate) your better than to fall into that trap

scrounger

a reply to: Cutepants

I’m pretty sure you aren’t. There is a thing called an exchange rate. The basis of supply and demand. If there’s no demand if makes what you have worth less. If there is a demand it makes what you have worth more. Russia has created a higher demand for their currency, hence making its value higher.
They will essentially be collecting euros and dollars and then they will exchange those for gold. Thus building up their gold storage making the country richer than most.

a reply to: mcsnacks77


Gazprom is ALREADY converting most income to rubles, by law.

This recent change only moves the ruble conversion forward 24 hours, nothing else.

What made the petro dollar so strong is that Saudi Arabia invested a high percentage of their oil sales into American bonds. A large new long term investor with a large net increase in overall U.S. bond sales and value.

Russia is getting no net revenue increase, so there is no net new money to invest in bonds or gold.

a reply to: Cutepants

Women and children guerrilla fighters are not going to have enough success against Russian military to make a difference. They are just adding to the civilian death total.
Russia has already won. They have stopped using ground combat tactics. Now they are just going to sit back and bomb them until they surrender or the cities are leveled. Which they are already close to being at.
Ukraines know it’s over. They are smart ones are giving up.

67 soldiers from the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered to Russian troops in the Kyiv region on Tuesday.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It does cause an increase in Russian wealth. For example, the US was exchanging let’s say $10.00 for 10,000 rubles credit if rubles are worth .01c exchanged. Now when they exchange $10.00 they will receive 5,000 rubles credit because rubles are valued at .02c. Exchanged.
They will have to buy rubles with their euros or U.S. dollars at rates fixed by Russia's central bank to pay for the natural gas delivered from Russia. The move would bolster the rubles worth by raising demand for it

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It does cause an increase in Russian wealth. For example, the US was exchanging let’s say $10.00 for 10,000 rubles credit if rubles are worth .01c exchanged. Now when they exchange $10.00 they will receive 5,000 rubles credit because rubles are valued at .02c. Exchanged.
They will have to buy rubles with their euros or U.S. dollars at rates fixed by Russia's central bank to pay for the natural gas delivered from Russia. The move would bolster the rubles worth by raising demand for it

Funds from oil purchases were ALREADY converted to rubles within 24 hours.

This new decree only moves that ruble conversion forward 24 hours, it does not result in any additional rubles being purchased.

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
a reply to: Cutepants

Women and children guerrilla fighters are not going to have enough success against Russian military to make a difference. They are just adding to the civilian death total.
Russia has already won. They have stopped using ground combat tactics. Now they are just going to sit back and bomb them until they surrender or the cities are leveled. Which they are already close to being at.
Ukraines know it’s over. They are smart ones are giving up.

67 soldiers from the Armed Forces of Ukraine surrendered to Russian troops in the Kyiv region on Tuesday.

The women and children have mostly left, or will likely leave soon.

Russia is having trouble with military aged male civilians acting as recon for the Ukrainian Military and pre trained Territorial Defense Force, because those civilians are constantly providing exact coordinates (pretty close anyway) of russian vehicles all over the country via smartphone.

Which are then frequently destroyed by 6-12 man squads equipped with Javelins and similar, or by small drones.

That small squad, after firing from a hidden location roughly a mile away with 95% single shot turret popping results, then walks back home, or to the nearest base or shelter, and almost always with zero Ukrainian losses.

Until the next day when they do it all over again.

russia is getting spanked, they certainly haven't 'won' anything.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

How are they getting spanked when Ukraine has admitted that their losses in every military category are greater than Russias? Russia hasn’t even brought in any military equipment made after 1990. They are using their bottom of barrel equipment, I mean they are using tanks built in the 1960’s.
They are bringing in their new tougher deadlier war machines this week now that they have secured the area around Donetsk and the ports. They are going to completely clear out the remaining small resistance groups left from kharkiv to Mariupol, all the while steadily bombing Kiev and Melitopol until they surrender.

originally posted by: mcsnacks77
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

How are they getting spanked when Ukraine has admitted that their losses in every military category are greater than Russias? Russia hasn’t even brought in any military equipment made after 1990. They are using their bottom of barrel equipment, I mean they are using tanks built in the 1960’s.
They are bringing in their new tougher deadlier war machines this week now that they have secured the area around Donetsk and the ports. They are going to completely clear out the remaining small resistance groups left from kharkiv to Mariupol, all the while steadily bombing Kiev and Melitopol until they surrender.

Yeah, russia used a lot of older tanks, but also T14s (one was destroyed) stealth fighters, hypersonic missiles, and their latest EW gear.

It just isn't true that russia has been failing as a result of older equipment, Javelins destroy T14s just as easily as a T72.

They are failing due to over estimation of their own capabilities, underestimating the enemy's capabilities, some of the worst planning and tactics in modern warfare, and poor training of soldiers with morale issues.

The Alamo (Mariupol) will certainly fall, this has been known since roughly day 3 of the invasion, the only thing surprising is the russian death count and how long a few hundred soldiers held out against 10s of thousands of ruthless russian troops.

In every other active area of the country, russians have been retreating for at least the last several days, while absorbing extremely high kia rates (see 2 stories about troops killing own commanders).

www.understandingwar.org...

a reply to: mcsnacks77

What are they supposed to be bringing in? A couple T14 won't make any difference, if they have any left.

For example, the US was exchanging let’s say $10.00 for 10,000 rubles credit if rubles are worth .01c exchanged. Now when they exchange $10.00 they will receive 5,000 rubles credit because rubles are valued at .02c. Exchanged.

lol, but it doesn't matter who exchanges the money. It can be Gazprom, Western gas buyers or some institution controlled by the Russian government. Imagine I'm paying you 10 dollars and you exchange that into rubles. And the alternative is I exchange it to rubles first and then I give you the rubles. What's the difference?