Oliver Stones "Ukraine on Fire" is a must watch

a reply to: neutronflux

Last I checked the russians open those corridors during set hours that they choose and notify the Ukrainians of. Last I heard Ukraine was upset that they didn't get to choose the when. Makes sense they would frame those stories that way in light of such a sentiment.

Working my way through the film this evening.

I had known about the history of the "Ukraine sandwich" (crushed between empires from East and West, Holy Roman Empire vs Turkish Empire, Germans vs U.S.S.R) throughout its modern history, and even farther back with the Mongols. I had not known the brutality that existed there during WW2. I think the tone of the film is very ... pro-Eastern ... in that conflict, and the Nazis were filth of course. But my instincts tell me nobody had clean hands, Germans or Russians, at the place and at that time. It seems like political and moral flexibility was a hallmark of Ukrainians in those times, as a necessity of survival.

As I'm getting into 'modern times' in the story, it's quite alarming (not unexpected) to learn how much of the dark history the C.I.A. had in obfuscating and covering up the war crimes from Ukrainians into the Cold War to get a strategic advantage over the K.G.B. and U.S.S.R. We're always the 'good guys' right. Once again the fingerprints of Dulles and co. What would history had been like had Kennedy survived and his fate had been bestowed on Dulles instead. But it's a digression.

But here we finally get to 2014, and //the arrival of the 'money changers' and 'Holy Green Religion'// to help out Ukraine!

I won't spoil the suspense too much, but it's just such a coincidence that wherever the I.M.F. and W.E.F. go.....energy prices MUST rise to coerce 'Green' behaviors and technologies for the 'peasants', and overall austerity and harsh economic climate must be thrust on them by their 'betters'.

Not many people felt sorry for the Greeks in the early 2000s due to the loan shirking they did, although they also made mention of these exhortations to 'austerity' by the I.M.F.

It seems anywhere the I.M.F. and W.E.F. go.....people's energy consumption MUST be reduced...their financial situation is characterized by tightening of belts.

Huh. And so many Western leaders have had tutelage under the W.E.F. Well now.

The 'Green' movement seems what I would term as Neo-fuedalism, masquerading as 'tree huggers', whoops sorry, 'ecological champions'. IDK I've never seen Her Schwabb planting trees at an Earth Day festival (could be wrong here)

The serfs mode of transportation are made deliberately expensive...

But nobody seems to care much about the behaviors of the 'new nobility', Klaush Schwab or Victoria Nuland or various other diplomats flying private jets all over God's creation.

Will need to finish the movie another night.

So far I'm not really seeing either side as clear cut 'black' and 'white' villains and heroes, seems like lots of shades of grey and murky alignments and behavior.

One thing I would say definitively, when the money changers and IMF/WEF come into town, there is no grey there I see, Green Flames, personally I would kick them TF out of the border ASAP.

I think the Ukrainians need a lot less outside folks skulking about their halls of power, and that includes the U.S. and the IMF/WEF. This seems like something the Germans and Russians are best positioned to figure out (split the damn country in half??)

I don't want my country's politicians in there. Nuland seems like she's well on her way to justice. It's very odd that Hunter Biden was so deeply embroiled in such a cess pool of corruption.

But the 'Big Guy' he was squeaky clean right?? Is the Southern District of Manhattan ever going to give Biden the multi-year Trump Tax Audit program to find out if any Ukrainian oil/gas proceeds ended up in his coffers?

Nah.

We should dig there a little further and see what dirty hands were in the cookie jar there. OH WAIT, that is an impeachable offense now though right?

Such disgusting fraud and money crimes by outsiders against a backdrop of historic murder and genocide. I feel very bad for the Ukrainian people, caught in the middle, although apparently some of them were bad hombres as well.

Seems like the E.U., Russian and MOST ESPECIALLY my country need to get TF out of that place and stay out.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened


Seems like the E.U., Russian and MOST ESPECIALLY my country need to get TF out of that place and stay out.

And let's not also forget the current Ukrainian government and the government that the US "legitimized" after the coup has to respect the culture and the language (Russian) of the people in the east, who make up over 30% of the country, who have been living there for generations and generations, literally hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of years.

You just don't go and make up new rules and laws taking away the Russian language and culture of people who live in Russian speaking cities and towns and have lived this way for generations.

Could you imagine the Canadian government telling the people of Quebec that French is no longer a second language in Canada and that you shouldn't speak French in public anymore? Oh and all the street names and businesses in French or with a French reference has to come down and be changed to English only? Your children can longer go to school and be taught in French from now on all schools in Quebec are English speaking and teaching in english only?

Do you think the French people in Quebec which is 90% French speaking would just roll over and say "ok"? Or do you think they would protest, start to revolt and want to separate from Canada?

No different then the Donbass area of Ukraine and other parts of Eastern Ukraine like Crimea (before it joined Russia by a vote for this exact reason) 30% of Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language. 30% OF UKRAINIANS SPEAK RUSSIAN AS THEIR 1ST LANGUAGE!!! That's a huge percent of the population!!! When you get into Donbass region of Ukraine and other Eastern Ukrainian areas it moves up to 90%+ that is Russian speaking as the main language, you can't tell these people their language means nothing anymore, without expecting some kind of revolt by the people.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

I'm in complete agreement.

It's another situation where lines on a map don't align with the cultural moors of the population. Very common in the M.E. as we've seen. This is a common occurrence with real estate that has changed hands many times.

Partitioning seems like the best bet; but try to do it in some way that gives the people a modicum of choice. Referendum in the East and West regions, stay or leave Ukraine. But there again "elections" in their past have been double traded and accused of being unfair.

Little late for that now anyhow, but as I've said, there are a significant number of people that don't know the history or the context of the region. The stuff about WW2, yes, pertinent, but anything > 2104 is very VERY relevant and fresh in minds, and that seems to be the time the I.M.F. and "West" pitched the power play there.

Anyhow a good documentary.

Anything that is a must watch should be removed by YouTube. You shouldn't be allowed to even attempt to understand the history of the situation unless it says putin bad, zelensky / nazi azovs good.

a reply to: Tekner

When someone is making a documentary about Ukraine and has high bias towards Putin i would heavily be skeptical of how the "facts" are presented.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: CptGreenTea

originally posted by: dollukka
Oliver Stone who asked Putin to be his daughter´s godfather.. ok

washington post link to that

This was from a transcript released by the Kremlin. Did Oliver Stone ever say this is fake or anyone else?

Because this doesn't make me want to watch the documentary if Stone has alot of bias towards putin.

Don't watch it then and just keep going along with the main stream media narrative 🙄

Wuld you take a documentary about Biden's performance in office if the director had ssked biden to be his daughter's godfather?