Europe going into fifth gear towards totalitarianism.

a reply to: Rolicia

Yep!

I remember going into the nearest winkel and a CD yesterday was 10 guilders and then it was 10 euros.
Guess what? it doubled in price.


fuq the EU
forever

Fourth Reich

a reply to: chris_stibrany

I remember that.

I'm so glad we dodged the € in the UK.

Sometimes our government does the right thing.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

I love a pound coin!
Its so....satisfying.
I don't really care about the cultural banking ramifications of the Bank of London and the Corporation when I hold that thickness in my hand and insert it into a vending machine to get a Cadbury I am pleased.
It is both tactile and tasty.
Though Cadburys seems to have gone downhill since the 90s.

a reply to: Rolicia

Yeah, soon they might be as bad as Russia!

BTW, why not try to move to Russia?
Hang out with Snowden, who I'm sure loves Putin for his democratic principles.
And I'm also sure won't say a peep bad about Putin or anything the Russians do

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Sometimes our government does the right thing.

More by luck than anything else....it was never part of the plan for us to leave.
Cameron seriously misjudged the mood of the nation - like all current politicians he was just so far out of touch with 'ordinary' people - when he sanctioned the referendum.

The only downsides have been that we ended up with May then Boris.....but I'll say this only once and very quietly, suffering those two incompetents has been worth getting away from the horror that the EU has become.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: Rolicia

Yep!

I remember going into the nearest winkel and a CD yesterday was 10 guilders and then it was 10 euros.
Guess what? it doubled in price.


fuq the EU
forever

Fourth Reich

It is not a matter of the Euro per se, it is a matter of inflation. 5% inflation in a little bit over 20 years will more than double the price.

It is impossible to put together countries that have a stabile currency with countries who finance themselves by inflatiing their currencies. But that is what happened. Countries like Germany, Netherlands and Austria were put in a common currency with Italy, Greece and Portugal. The problem is that keeping the Euro a stabile currency will sooner or later crash the economies of the southern members, inflating it will bite into the wealth of the northern members. So the decision was probably to rather keep states running than devaluating the Euro for "rich" countries.

And now, what remains is a damned if you do and damned if you don't.

However, the "ordinary citizen" should not forget that companies that buy and sell within the EU had large advantages and when you ask yourself where the money went: to those companies, and don't you think they will share it with you. :-)

originally posted by: Freeborn

The only downsides have been that we ended up with May then Boris.....but I'll say this only once and very quietly, suffering those two incompetents has been worth getting away from the horror that the EU has become.

And we can now choose to vote out idiots like May and Boris-unlike everyone in the EU who may be able to vote out their local leaders,but have zero choice in changing the rules and direction of what the EU forces them all to submit to.

We have our democracy back.
Just in tiime by the looks of it.

bla blabla yes by design.


screw the southerners as always

a reply to: carport

a reply to: carport

One Euro was worth 2.20371 Guldens
Day 1 a bread was 1 Gulden
Day 2 a bread was 1 Euro

Not exaggerated, and like this with EVERYTHING.

One of the greatest robberies of mankind..

And you want to pen it down to inflation? No, the inflation came afterwards.

originally posted by: Rolicia
a reply to: carport
Thanks for your clarification, yet the legislation that they will be signing into law in a few months, is based on exactly these recommendations.

No, it won't. If you think otherwiese, simply put a link to an _official_ document. :-)

originally posted by: Rolicia
What use does a QR code mobile app have to withdraw money if you can already do the same with any mobile phone using google pay for withdrawing? Or simply use the NFC contactless withdrawal option on your bank card?

It is for people who do not like to have their baking card on them. Why, do you think, are so many, mostly younger people, pay in the supermarkets with their telephones? They could pay as well by inserting their bank card, but they leave that at home in the (wrong) conviction that paying by mobile is much safer than paying by bank card. :-)

originally posted by: Rolicia
they're changing it because they want to connect your digital ID to your ability to get to your money.

You got it upside down: The digital currency and ID will come, because the people want it for reasons of convenience, not because it is imposed on them. Did you notice, for example, how happily people nowadays show their supermarket apps to save a mere 0.1%? And how some articles may be bought _only_ by app holders? If you want to critizise, talk to your fellow citizens, especially the group between 18-45. :-)

But, apart from that - the bank DOES have all your information anyway, why would they need anything more? And why a digital ID when all your buying habits are already being recorded by these supermarket apps and client cards, those data are far more complete. Finally, you think the governments wants you? No, at maximum, they just help the friendly shop owners (mostly international companies and their finance cabale brothers) to get you easier. After all, you can always live without a government, but you can't live without any goods, food, water and housing (oh, and the jobs they supply). The more data is coagulated and exchanged by all those entities, the better do they know you ... the government, on the other hand, can always come and get you, if they want to know you better, they even won't need additional laws for that.

It is just the way a post-capitalistic system runs wild in its last years ... wait and see. :-)

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

That's exactly the thing.. The majority in Brussels are unelected officials writing legislation for the membr states, which the elected officials of said nations then sign into law..

We can change our players locally but they will still be signing the treaties.. exactly as they did after TWO binding referenda of which they simply ignored the outcomes and joined anyway.

Democracy is nothing much than a rusted bike covered with a thin layer of chrome.. looks good on the outside but rotten from within.

originally posted by: Rolicia
a reply to: carport

One Euro was worth 2.20371 Guldens
Day 1 a bread was 1 Gulden
Day 2 a bread was 1 Euro

Not exaggerated, and like this with EVERYTHING.

One of the greatest robberies of mankind..

And you want to pen it down to inflation? No, the inflation came afterwards.

No, it didn't. From the first day, the stop mechanisms to prevent exactly this development were put out of order.

You also should not mix up ever raising taxes (and things with a different name that do the same) with the currency value itself. In Germany, for example, the taxes were raised much more in the last 20 years than the Euro devalued against the DM. As a result, things got more expensive without a shop ower having one Euro more in their pockets.

You know, there were times when Germans went to Holland for their weekly shopping, This all ended even before the Euro, and until today, the Netherlands come to shop in Germany. Why, do you think, this happened? The Netherlands, have, for example the highest gasoline prices in Europe - and also the highest tax on gasoline, even higher than Finland or Italy. The same for Germany when it comes to electricity. This is not the Euro's fault...

Do you have, btw, any idea at all how much money goes into the EU, year for year?

originally posted by: Rolicia
a reply to: Silcone Synapse
Democracy is nothing much than a rusted bike covered with a thin layer of chrome.. looks good on the outside but rotten from within.

Did you ever expect that it would be different? Maybe, only maybe, the originators of that all had good intentions, but those are long gone, the ones ruling today are just using the system, they did not put any energy into creating it - and therefore do not feel responsibility either.

originally posted by: carport

originally posted by: Rolicia
- The European Council has amended resolution 2361 and no longer objects to compulsory vaccination
- As of July 1, 2022, the EU has announced the legislation for the mandatory EU COVID 19 Certificates that deprive you of all freedoms if you do not have a QR covid certificate. If there is a majority of member states signing the legislation, compulsory vaccination will be introduced!

Also, what you write about atms and currency has nothing to do with the covid proposal, has no link attached and is grossly misleading.

The QR code can be used with some atms and the idea behind it is that you are able to do "mobile" banking from your phone rather than putting your bank card into the atm. You generate a QR code in your banking application and the atm will read it and pay out the money. There are no attempts to replace the banking card for the time being, it is just an additional service. What will be in 10 or 20 years, is a different discussion, but right now and in the forseeable future, it simply isn't what you describe it is. The same goes for the digital ID - happening on a national level, but not international.

I didn't read this document, but I can assure you digital ID will cover banking in addition to many other things. If they told all of you the end game things might not go as smoothly. For now they want to roll things out piecemeal, the way they do everything they know the peasants would never support.

They dilute the pushback with incremental changes over time, without a clear roadmap for the people to see the coming coup de grace, building the prison around you one bar at a time. After all, just putting up one bar isn't a prison. If you fight it hard you'll be labeled anti-government or a conspiracy theorist for fighting such a benign law. After all the steps are complete people will look around 6 months later and realize what happened, but it's too late then. The opportunity to lobby for less surveillance and protections for privacy will be gone, like the Patriot Act it will likely not change in my lifetime.

Your digital ID will essentially become an NFT, tracking all your data and recording it. It will likely include you drivers license and, eventually, professional licenses (and maybe vaccination status if they have their way). If they're able to get it to fit the digital security requirements it will even hold your medical data. The amount of data collection will be unprecedented. In addition to having your phones, internet activity, and social media being monitored by government and non-government actors you will also have financial transactions recorded and potentially your medical records.

While the agency in the OP may not have the authority to instute these changes across the board, make no mistake this is just the start and it will be coming fast and hard over the next decade. The power they're going to have will make the Canada bank freezes seem like child's play. They'll likely be able to mass freeze or seize accounts with an email and click of a button, wallet blacklisted.

The sad part is that if not for governments becoming completely out of control and authoritarian, then this would be a wonderful upgrade that could save consumers money. What it will be instead is a way to further inconvenience you and, should you become troublesome, removing you from society. Well eventually see an increase in civil asset forfeiture straight from bank accounts with no accountability, based on "suspicious" transactions.

We all should know the story .
It is written down in 3 of the most published books ever .

I missed the edit limit on my last post, but imagine what I came across when doing my news trawling for the day?

World Economic Forum pushes digital ID system that will determine access to services

The WEF suggests that this data collection dragnet would allow a digital ID to scoop up data on people’s online behavior, purchase history, network usage, credit history, biometrics, names, national identity numbers, medical history, travel history, social accounts, e-government accounts, bank accounts, energy usage, health stats, education, and more.

Once the digital ID has access to this huge, highly personal data set, the WEF proposes using it to decide whether users are allowed to “own and use devices,” “open bank accounts,” “carry out online financial transactions,” “conduct business transactions,” “access insurance, treatment,” “book trips,” “go through border control between countries or regions,” “access third-party services that rely on social media logins,” “file taxes, vote, collect benefits,” and more.

So, you'll own nothing and like it. Should you not like it and speak up you will still own nothing, but you'll no longer be able to borrow their stuff.

Imagine, if you will, the ability to freeze bank accounts to entire segments of the population with little more than a database query and a few mouse clicks. For those who have not vaccinated, or have posted misinformation, or said means things, or has somebody powerful that doesn't like you, you're education will be brief and harsh.

The WEF goes on to suggest that digital IDs will “allow for the selection of preferences and the making of certain choices in advance” and ultimately pave the way for “automated decision-making” where a “trusted digital assistant” “automates permissions for people and effectively manages their data across different services” to “overcome the limitations of notice and consent.”

Apparently in addition to owning nothing you'll end up deciding nothing. I wonder how many years before it just casts your votes without your input, not that votes matter anymore. This doesn't sound sketchy at all "overcome the limitations of notice and consent". Last I checked consent wasn't a bad word, but they want to "overcome" it. In some other contexts this would be called rape, theft by unauthorized taking, or any number of criminal charges.

It appears that the WEF are still moving on this "you'll own nothing" concept, but are adding in that you won't even be able to use things if their criteria isn't met. Trudeau had no problem freezing bank accounts for political opposition, a good little soldier in Klaus's army of young leaders (infiltrators). After the lopsided actions in Canada and the US it's clear, if Democrats or legacy Republicans remain in control they will follow suit. They will use it to eliminate opposition, stifle dissent, and scare people into compliance.

If the WEF has it's way we're in for dark times. Hitler would be envious of the total control they'll have over the population.

It all feels so hopeless

Klaus Schwab's driving the bus right now.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Nothing will come of this, they are just proposals by an unelected advisory group....

originally posted by: carport

originally posted by: Rolicia
a reply to: carport

One Euro was worth 2.20371 Guldens
Day 1 a bread was 1 Gulden
Day 2 a bread was 1 Euro

Not exaggerated, and like this with EVERYTHING.

One of the greatest robberies of mankind..

And you want to pen it down to inflation? No, the inflation came afterwards.

No, it didn't. From the first day, the stop mechanisms to prevent exactly this development were put out of order.

You also should not mix up ever raising taxes (and things with a different name that do the same) with the currency value itself. In Germany, for example, the taxes were raised much more in the last 20 years than the Euro devalued against the DM. As a result, things got more expensive without a shop ower having one Euro more in their pockets.

You know, there were times when Germans went to Holland for their weekly shopping, This all ended even before the Euro, and until today, the Netherlands come to shop in Germany. Why, do you think, this happened? The Netherlands, have, for example the highest gasoline prices in Europe - and also the highest tax on gasoline, even higher than Finland or Italy. The same for Germany when it comes to electricity. This is not the Euro's fault...

Do you have, btw, any idea at all how much money goes into the EU, year for year?

If the "stop mechanisms were put out of order", it happened, right? Taxes got raised, yes, but by EU mandates.
The Dutch have always payed alot of taxes, gasoline is expensive because pur road taxes are partly included in it. But have you seen the Dutch infrastructure? I dare say it's likely to be the best in the world. You will be hard pressed to find a pothole in the highway.
In all honesty the Netherlands is a good place to live. Even though i left because of reasons posted before, quality of life is great there. Though the policy changes and surveillance state resulting from that, all come from Brussels, not from the Dutch.
Superstate Europe is just around the corner.