Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz
a reply to: vNex92

When you are one of the good guys, you get the benefit of the doubt. Not so much for evil pricks like Putin.

Its ok to work with evil pricks like Saudi Arabia just like the innocent Yemenis civilians.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ukraine simply could have followed Minsk Agreements seems you forget them to.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

We didn't "take" Iraq the first time. We did get into their southeast desert but we stopped well short of Baghdad. We also degraded them for 6 weeks with an air campaign before we moved in our ground forces.

Different situation too. They had a lot of their military forward deployed in Kuwait and we were chasing them into Iraq, rather than attacking a fortified Iraq like we were in 2003.

It's really hard to compare the two directly. I'm just making the point that it's too early to draw any solid conclusions here.

Nonsense.

We destroyed their military to the point of UNCONDITIONAL surrender.

Literally begging to put themselves at our mercy.

Hasn't happened anywhere else since 1945.



Not during the first discussion though.

Hussain had absolutely idea what we had just done to his forces until we showed him.

Ukraine-Russia crisis: What is the Minsk agreement?

It came on the back of Minsk I, an earlier failed attempt at a ceasefire agreement.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Xcathdra

Ukraine simply could have followed Minsk Agreements seems you forget them to.

The same goes for the separatists. As I've said before, I'm sure if you go through OSCE's reports you'll find more instances of the separatists violating the Minsk Agreement than you will Ukraine.

originally posted by: vNex92
Ukraine-Russia crisis: What is the Minsk agreement?

It came on the back of Minsk I, an earlier failed attempt at a ceasefire agreement.

Thanks for the russian propaganda, are all of the russian 'news' sites offline right now for some reason?

Why aljazeera?

Does aljazeera need some attitude adjusting too?

I'll pass it along.

Now please get russian military off Ukrainian soil.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Xcathdra

Ukraine simply could have followed Minsk Agreements seems you forget them to.

and Russia could have complied with the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.. Something you seem to ignore.

a reply to: vNex92

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances

That predates yours

* - French President Emmanuel Macron has asked his Belarus counterpart to demand that the country, Ukraine's neighbor, quickly order Russian troops to leave. Macron denounced "the gravity of a decision that would authorize Russia to deploy nuclear arms on Belarus soil”

* - Fires at Hostomel's Antonov International Airport spotted by NASA’s FIRMS satellite

* - Head of Dagestan contradicts Russian defense ministry and express condolence after death of officer from Dagestan in Ukraine

* - Woman killed as result of shelling on high-rise apartment block in Kharkiv

* - Geolocation of the Russian column consisting "two 2S3 152mm howitzer batteries, 1V13 battery command posts, MT-LB, Strela-10 air defense systems" in Pryazovs'ke, going towards east. Presumably to Berdyansk. 36TYS0296878538

The 2 darker areas are Luhansk / Donetsk (Rebel areas from 2014) and Crimea. The light pinkish areas are sections of Ukraine that are under control of Russian forces (although there is still a lot of fighting going on in those areas. No major Ukrainian city has been captured.

As a reminder -

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

* - Google says it has banned state-funded Russian media from running ads on its services

* - ASEAN stops short of saying it condemns Russia attack on Ukraine, choosing instead to say it's "deeply concerned" & there's "still room for a peaceful dialogue". Interesting Russianot identified at all in statement. Myanmar, an ASEAN member, had supported Russia's actions
Link to twitter and ASEAN press release - twitter.com...

* - Rivne and Odesa: air strike sirens right now

* - Turkey to block passage of Russian warships in Black Sea (Clarification - The Montreux Convention allows Turkey (and grants Turkey the sole ability) to shut/block the straights. The 2 caveats to that are if 1 - Turkey is at war / dealing with vessels of waring nations, or the 2 - National Security of Turkey is threatened).

originally posted by: Xcathdra
* - Turkey to block passage of Russian warships in Black Sea

Whoa... Looking for more sources on this one. I know earlier I saw sources saying they wouldn't

originally posted by: majesticgent

originally posted by: Xcathdra
* - Turkey to block passage of Russian warships in Black Sea

Whoa... Looking for more sources on this one. I know earlier I saw sources saying they wouldn't

Yeah they changed their mind after reading the Montreux Convention. It allows Turkey to block the straights if 1 - Turkey is at war / dealing with vessels from waring nations or 2 - The national security of Turkey is threatened.

Apparently Turkey made their decision based on option 2.

Turkey To Block Passage Of Russian Warships In Black Sea; Moscow Disputes Access Claims

a reply to: Xcathdra

Interesting development. We'll see how this plays out.

Montreux Convention

The Montreux Convention was signed in 1936 to manage the passage regime across the straits and to define tonnage limits in the Black Sea for non-riparian countries. Of course, there are numerous details in the convention, but we will focus on the key principles that the agreement suggests, specifically for Turkey in terms of halting the passages.

The conventions primarily support freedom of navigation through the straits, but Turkey has the authority to close the straits to ships from warring countries when a full-fledged war occurs or is imminent. Articles 20 and 21 of the Convention define Turkey’s authority over the passing regime for naval ships (Articles 4, 5, and 6 for merchant vessels) during wartime or when a war is imminent.

In a time of war;

If Turkey is not belligerent;
merchant vessels, under any flag or with any kind of cargo, shall enjoy freedom of transit and navigation in the Straits.

If Turkey is belligerent;
Merchant Vessels, not belonging to a country at war with Turkey shall enjoy freedom of transit and navigation in the Straits on condition that they do not in any way assist the enemy. Such vessels shall enter the Straits by day and their transit shall be effected by the route which shall in each case be indicated by the Turkish authorities.
Warships’ passage shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish Government.

When war is imminent;

The provisions of Merchant traffic shall nevertheless continue to be applied except that vessels must enter the Straits by day and that their transit must be effected by the route which shall, in each case, be indicated by the Turkish authorities.
Warships’ passage shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish Government.

These articles imply that Turkey can obstruct the passage of warships even though it is not actively involved in the war, with the possibility of war looming. Another important aspect of the convention is that Turkey has the authority to suspend the tonnage limitations in the Black Sea, which means that warships from Turkey’s allies would be able to enter the Black Sea if Turkey exercised its discretion in this regard.

originally posted by: majesticgent

originally posted by: Xcathdra
* - Turkey to block passage of Russian warships in Black Sea

Whoa... Looking for more sources on this one. I know earlier I saw sources saying they wouldn't

Turkey has been under HUGE domestic and international pressure in the past 24 hours (everyone on the planet except china) to do exactly this.

Even Iranians Mullahs!

Really!

putin just got Saudi Arabia and Iran to work together!

I can't confirm Turkey took action yet but it's looking much more likely that they will soon.

Track the U.S. fleet.

Turkey will need significant assistance enforcing this if putin pushes the issue.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Thanks for the russian propaganda, are all of the russian 'news' sites offline right now for some reason?

The Russian bots are currently down

Anonymous Hackers Claim Responsibility for Russian Government Website Outages, Hacked State TV Broadcasts

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

There appears to be a break down in communications between Ukraine and Turkey on this topic.

Zelensky says Erdogan agreed to close strait despite Turkish officials' denials

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

There appears to be a break down in communications between Ukraine and Turkey on this topic.

Zelensky says Erdogan agreed to close strait despite Turkish officials' denials

Foggy, I agree.

I haven't seen any evidence that Turkey has done this yet, or will do this, but few are able stand up to the pressure they're receiving right now for very long.

Much more likely than 24 hours ago.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

There are already 3 carrier task forces in the Eastern Med. 1 US, 1 French and 1 Italian (all 3 are under NATO Command).