So what, Jesus may have walked on water, but could he have....

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: DaCook

Ahh, I think maybe I can understand what you’re getting at. Let me explain. What you are talking about is the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope the Vatican the Bishops and priests. Although many are dedicated and reverent. That’s not what I am representing. I’m representing the People of the Catholic Church, the “ flock “ in other words. Child molesters? It’s OUR children that were and are being molested. WE are the ones who demand justice. I firmly believe in my heart that Emperor Constantine set up the Roman Catholic Church as a control mechanism. Compiling the Bible from 10’s of thousands of ancient documents, therefore setting up the church as the sole authority in the translation and interpretation of the spiritual meaning of those documents.

The fact of the matter is that they unwittingly spread The word of God along with their control. All though history it spread, Pope after Pope as they controlled more and more country’s thru time, Atrocity after Atrocity. Using the fear of god, fire and brimstone and especially Hell lots and lots of Hell. The only Bibles were in the hands of the clergy, if any of the flock were found in possession they were punished with execution. I’m sure there were many that caught on to what was going on and were against it. Penalty for heresy was death. More and more caught on as time rolled on.

Now to the present. I feel that I am a spiritual descendent of those early Christians and the Catholic worshipers who were the common man, the one’s that the original message was meant for. A message of hope, love, charity and brotherhood. The Catholic church to me are those people, not what you talk about. We abhor the type of behavior you’re talking about, and call it out to the world if we find it. It’s always been like that. We are not the Vatican, or the Spanish Inquisition, or a cathedral. We are the people of the Trinity, we are the Catholic Church, and we are a multitude worldwide. So believe me, I’m proud to be a Catholic. Your words don’t anger me. I’ve heard it all before. We all have.

Cool, so you know I am not making anything up. The first part of your post is right on the money.

The problem is systemic with Christianity and their quest for power. Hell, they even destroyed totem poles in the NW thinking they had something to do with local religion stupidly not knowing it was their method of recording their history. Not saying there are not some truly good individuals who have good intentions, but using “god” for pure greed is still alive and well today. It simply has morphed its tactics. You really think certain ministers need their own private jets so they can talk to god in private? So they say.

Separation of state and religion? Tell the white evangelical movement that. Why are they telling their flock on whom to vote for.? Why are they stacking the deck in Texas electing people to select school books that favor their view? Pure greed n power. The game is the same, just catered for the times.

The greatest story ever told is the greatest lie ever told for money and power. If your looking for the truth, that really is it. Christianity is however slowly dying on the vine, the younger generation is not buying into it.

As mentioned earlier, just trying to tell the facts.

Denny

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: DaCook

I’m sorry, your argument just doesn’t hold up. We do have a really cool book that explains it all if your interested, it’s called the Bible.

The greatest lie ever told. Written by man, much which is plagiarized, stories that are pure lies and impossible, and written for holding power. Over 40,000 different versions. Show me your proof god is real. And, the Bible is not it proof. Not cool at all.

Denny

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: DaCook

I’m sorry, your argument just doesn’t hold up. We do have a really cool book that explains it all if your interested, it’s called the Bible.

The greatest lie ever told. Written by man, much which is plagiarized, stories that are pure lies and impossible, and written for holding power. Over 40,000 different versions. Show me your proof god is real. And, the Bible is not it proof. Not cool at all.

Denny

a reply to: Smigg

How would you know how Jews felt in 34AD?

You weren't there so to infer that would be an unsubstantiated opinion and nothing more.

Miracles were required under Mosaic Law for one to be a profit, and for proof he was their Messiah.

Are you a Jew?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

He can separate your soul from your body in less that a millisecond. Let's see an of those guys do that.

As can anyone that can Astral Travel, so....?

I have no problem with people believing in the bible. If it gives you faith, and makes you a good person, that is great.
BUT...
You sure can't look down at others, that don't. That doesn't make you a good person.

a reply to: DaCook

I have been very civil with you, in the midst of your insults. I have explained how you can find the proof you require. You are not open to hearing any truth at this time. Hardened your heart against it so to speak. You are most definitely not trying to have a discussion, more like conducting an attack. I don’t know what happened to you in your life that makes you so bitter and hateful, it really doesn’t matter. You could set that aside if you wanted, but would rather lash out at me. Once again that’s your choice.

The Christian churches of today are packed with young people, and not because their parents dragged them there. They want to be there. You want to hear my proof of God? Not really, you want to trash it. Sorry, not going to happen.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: DaCook

I have been very civil with you, in the midst of your insults. I have explained how you can find the proof you require. You are not open to hearing any truth at this time. Hardened your heart against it so to speak. You are most definitely not trying to have a discussion, more like conducting an attack. I don’t know what happened to you in your life that makes you so bitter and hateful, it really doesn’t matter. You could set that aside if you wanted, but would rather lash out at me. Once again that’s your choice.

The Christian churches of today are packed with young people, and not because their parents dragged them there. They want to be there. You want to hear my proof of God? Not really, you want to trash it. Sorry, not going to happen.

You know what would make me happy?

How about the Catholic church find in its loving heart the concept of giving back the money they stole to the people they stole it from? Think that will ever happen? Had a medical device client in Rome so I've had the opportunity to visit the Vatican a couple of times. Dedicant does not even come close to describing it

Check out La Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, or Sao Bento Monastery we visited in Rio de Janeiro where almost the entire interior was plated in gold. The Hagia Sophia Mosque that originally was a church. In its day it was the largest structure in the world. How much is enough?

Like I say......... Live and let live. That is until I learned the real truth and what vicious religion really was/is. If you did also, you would not be so happy with organized religion. Amazing what other peoples money can do.

Plus, I have not attacked you personally. I simply laid out the truth that you do not want to hear. Church's packed with young people? Forty percent of the people in England do not believe Jesus ever existed. Not my sampling, a sampling by the Church of England.

The greatest lie ever told, and the Vatican belongs in prison for the acts they did.

Denny

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Smigg

How would you know how Jews felt in 34AD?

You weren't there so to infer that would be an unsubstantiated opinion and nothing more.

Miracles were required under Mosaic Law for one to be a profit, and for proof he was their Messiah.

Are you a Jew?

It was tongue in cheek remark, are you ok ChesterJohn you seem unhappy in yourself is everything ok ?

Oh and Mosaic Law has nothing to do with Christianity (see Rom. 6:14; 7:1-14; Gal. 3:10-13, 24-25; 4:21; 5:1, 13; 2 Cor. 3:7-18)
and Christ wasn't their Messiah ask any Jew. Chill dude

Gosh, while I'm spreading hatred, or maybe spreading the real truth? Can we talk certified miracles? And, why the Catholic church stopped doing it.

Statues of the Virgin Mary crying tears. Or even the statue of Our Lady of All Nations in Akita, Japan that cries blood. Certified by the Vatican as miracles. How cum the Vatican doesn't certify miracles any more? Maybe DNA testing had something to do with it. The statues crying tears when DNA tested were male tears. The statue in Japan crying blood was analyzed and contain three different blood types.

Amazing how that works, isn't it.

The Vatican belongs in jail.

Denny

a reply to: DaCook

Any attack against God most definitely is a personal attack against me, and billions like me. You can’t separate me from my Lord and savior, we are intertwined. If you have trouble with the Vatican, well I do too. Jesus never told them to do what they did, he preached against that. And in the end, they will be held accountable. Trust me, it will be far worse than any prison.

Like I stated before, Constantine’s plan backfired on him, they screwed up and spread the word of God everywhere. In my mind the Roman Empire never fell, it just reconsolidated into the Roman Catholic Church and is alive today in the Vatican. The true church is the people, and some have done great good in the world, some of the Church leaders and clergy have done great good in the world.
Others have abused their power and authority terribly. That’s what some people are prone to do, it happens everywhere that people have power and authority. If that’s what you’re against, we are too.

You can’t blame God for that, yet you do. Blame the people who have stolen, raped and murdered in Gods name. Neither God nor I are responsible for what evil people do. That’s entirely on them. Believe what you wish, that’s entirely on you.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: DaCook

Any attack against God most definitely is a personal attack against me, and billions like me. You can’t separate me from my Lord and savior, we are intertwined. If you have trouble with the Vatican, well I do too. Jesus never told them to do what they did, he preached against that. And in the end, they will be held accountable. Trust me, it will be far worse than any prison.

You can’t blame God for that, yet you do. Blame the people who have stolen, raped and murdered in Gods name. Neither God nor I are responsible for what evil people do. That’s entirely on them. Believe what you wish, that’s entirely on you.

Ok. Merry Christmas spokesperson for God and not sure if I can trust ya. Again, you offer no proof that there is a real god nor proof that Jesus was even a real person. enquiring minds ya know.

Let me see if I can spread a little more holiday joy about the ethics of organization religion. Frankly forgot all about this and happened to remember while I took a shower. Personal story:

Will try and make it as brief as possible. My family was but nothing but poor Irish dirt farmers who migrated to the United States to partake in the Oklahoma Land Rush. They were able to obtain a piece of land that they turned into a farm outside Bartlesville, OK. Osage Indian land. Some genuine characters in my family and my grandfather had an affair with a 100% Osage Indian lady and thus produced an uncle whom was 50% Osage which entitled him to the Osage Oil Rights which probably was more than I imagined.

Being a small close family my half-blood uncle lived next door to another uncle. My Indian uncle passed away and my other uncle basically took care of his wife. (my aunt) Her father evidently was a bit weird and gave all his money to some religious organization which paid my aunt a small sum every month from his estate.

She got older and my other uncle would mow her yard and help clean the house. He found about $25,000.00 in cash under her bed which he deposited in the bank in her name. Super nice and honest person who didn’t want someone breaking into her house potentially harming her. As she got older and was basically on her death bed, she got regular visits from a minister from here fathers church.

My living uncle got a cease and desist letter to not have contact with her claiming he was making unwanted sexual advances towards her. Now he was in his mid 70’s at the time, a super nice guy, so this was not true at all. She died and all her money was donated to the church instead of being given back to the family. It was my Indian uncle’s money as she never worked a day in her life.

Turns out to be another religious con-artist game and the monthly money she received from the church was a method of keeping tracking of her.

Obviously organized religion strives to be part of everyone’s life particularly in major events such as birth, marriage, and particularly death. Go to any religious or church website and usually they will have instructions on how to will your money to them.

She actually had a net worth of about 1 million which in my wildest dream would not have imagined. Our family was conned out of every penny. Remember, these people have had centuries to figure out how to perfect their scam.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

These people belong in jail also.

Denny

a reply to: DaCook

You really aren’t comprehending anything I said, are you. I told you how you can find that proof but you don’t want to put in the work yourself. And you are asking the wrong person. I am not a priest, a preacher, a minister, or a prophet nor am I God. I am a defender of my faith. I also know who you are, you are one that would love to tear that faith apart.

Let’s turn this around a bit. Prove to me that God doesn’t exist. Not what you believe, actual proof. Good luck!

I am really enjoying this conversation despite the derision from you.

originally posted by: Topcraft

a reply to: DaCook

You really aren’t comprehending anything I said, are you. I told you how you can find that proof but you don’t want to put in the work yourself. And you are asking the wrong person. I am not a priest, a preacher, a minister, or a prophet nor am I God. I am a defender of my faith. I also know who you are, you are one that would love to tear that faith apart.

Let’s turn this around a bit. Prove to me that God doesn’t exist. Not what you believe, actual proof. Good luck!

I am really enjoying this conversation despite the derision from you.

Ok, I’ll take that bait. Do I get what you’re trying to say? Hell no. There is nothing to be found. As mentioned, if I had not seen what I had seen in Mexico and South America and got the scoop from the people who live there, I assure you; would not be involved in this at all. Cud have cared less. Live n let live! However, that appears to be a one way street and the abuse of Christianity is rampant.

Let’s see…. Proof there is no god?

You do know what meta-analysis is right? Analyzing multiple studies and combining the information and meta-analysis is considered to have the highest amount accuracy. When the power of prayer was meta-analyzed, (23 different Medical School studies, mostly paid for by organized religion) they concluded there was no such thing as “the power of prayer.” In fact, a couple of the studies showed the patients whom were prayed for, actually came out worse than the group who were not prayed for.

Let me ask…….. Why are there not medical offices in churches? Again, another easy answer: there is no power of prayer and “god” does not heal, nor answer prayer.

Now, according to the bible, God punished quite a number of people. The Tower of Babel, Cain, kills 70,000 Israelites, destroyed Sodom Gomorrah, etc. etc.

Why did god allow the Spanish/Catholics/ Portuguese (Brazil) to kill thousands in his name? Why did he allow them to rape and steal? I mean damn, if he got pissed at people for building a tall tower, seems like he would do something about mass murder. You think?

Why does he allow pain and suffering? Has he no morals or power to stop it?

Why does he not punish the perverts who preach in his name, but in private, are real perverts. Aka.. Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, n the list goes on.

Why do Christians themselves not self-police the con-artists and scammers? If you believe in the Ten Commandments and are an organized religion. Why would you not condemn and stop the people who ripped off my family. Why is it Christianity is silent? They forgave them for their sins and future sins? Why does god not stop that?

Why are there so many religions? There are 25 in India alone.

And back to my favorite: Why is there no contemporary proof that Jesus even existed. The most powerful demigod who ever lived, left no footprints at all? Nada, zippo. I mean, parting seas, leaping tall buildings, faster than a speeding bullet. And not one person wrote anything of his superpowers? And, as mentioned, the bible does not count. As you pointed out, written with the help of Constantine 400 years after the supposed time of Christ.

Why is it Christians have to lie to find proof of god, Jesus, to support what is written in the bible? People like Ron Wyatt whom conned millions of dollars to conjure up fake things. The Catholics and their fake miracles. If it really happened, there would be some evidence.

What say you?

Believe it or not, I am just a regular standup guy and my biggest fault is probably being too honest. I probably could have made a whole lot more money, but I made all I needed. No need to change. But when you see the outright lies and abuse. Someone has to say something.

Denny

When Chuck Norris does a push up, he is not moving up, he is pushing the world down.

He even has a fist in his beard.

a reply to: DaCook

Wow, lot there to talk about, I’ll try to be brief.

They said their was no proof of Pontious Pilate either. He was the governor of Jeruselem for I think 10 years in the 1st century starting in AD 26. No evidence of him either until much later. In 1961 they found a small inscription and a few coins with his name on it. The only actual proof of his existence. Unless of course you count the same “small” mention you referred to earlier. That came from the well respected Roman historian Tacitus, he mentioned that Pilate executed a criminal who called himself “ Christus “.

Christus, or Christ, is a title that as far as I know was only used by Jesus.

You were talking about the meticulous records they kept at the time, there is only THAT proof of the governor of an entire Roman Provence who had 10 years in that position. No tax records, nothing about his accomplishments, nada

So, you want the records of a person who the Jewish authority viewed as a heretic and a fraud.They wanted him gone and forgotten as he drew many followers from them. The Romans wanted him gone also, as they viewed him as a troublemaker who taught love of God over love of Emperor. We also have the letters from Paul to the early churches proving Paul’s existence. He was a disciple and an eyewitness to the ministry of Christ. He wrote about that experience, and the teachings of Christ.

And Constantine didn’t write the Bible. He compiled it from already existing documents. Much was left out. Look up the definition of compiled if you don’t understand the word. I could go on, and on, but I’ll stop here for now, it’s late

You basically addressed nothing, and your side step diversion validates that there is nothing written about Jesus during his lifetime. You mention Paul, however most believe any of Paul’s letters are fakes. Your answer is a nothing burger.

And Constantine did write the Bible in the 4th century. He got a group of competitors and cut them a deal he would write 10 bibles if they could agree on the content and stop waring. He also set up a deal in which his sons army would protect them.

Compile? Ok. But his scribes wrote them. All this says is MAN WROTE the Bible 400 later than the time of the non provable Jesus.

You conveniently did not address the university studies that the power of prayer is fake. There is no power of prayer when put to scientific study.

Nor did you address any other issue listed. You have provided no proof of anything. Real easy reason, there is none.

Denny

a reply to: chiefsmom

no one who can astral travel can cast both your body and soul in hell.

I don't look down on anyone, least of all you.

Hem I wonder if you see your hypocrisy in your words to me in how you are dealing with another in this thread.

a reply to: Smigg

I am greatly Joyful everyday.

And correct Obedience to Mosaic Law has nothing to do with Christian salvation in this current dispensation. The verse you quote are the Holy Ghosts rendering of law under the church age dispensation. Unlike the age of Mosaic Law it is not required for salvation.

And you will notice that Paul never under inspiration of the Holy Ghost restated one of the commandments and that one was and is the SABBATH OBSERVANCE. W/out Sabbath Observance, no one under Mosaic Law can obey all the other commandments in the Mosaic Law Dispensation which ended temporarily in Chapter 7 of the book of Acts with the stoning of Stephen.

Messiah is the English Transliteration of the word ANOINTED as Christ is the Transliteration in English of the Greek word Christos, that means the same thing. There is another, an anointed Cherub who will be the Anti-Anointed/Anti-Christ/anti-messiah.

originally posted by: Proto88
When Chuck Norris does a push up, he is not moving up, he is pushing the world down.

He even has a fist in his beard.

Off topic side note: I personally never met the man, but he used to live a mile or two from me and I trained on his TV show set with his Brazilian Jiu Jitsu intstructor Carlos Mechado who is a really cool guy.

It was myself and a partner who owned North Texas Martial Arts. As mentioned, I never met Chuck Norris, however my partner actually fought him and lost. They were friends and his casting staff would occasionally call our school looking for black belts as extras. My partner was in probably 5 shows and I never recognized him once. They were very good at disguising and making appear not as they are. (kinda like religion?)

Never appeared on the show as the martial arts school thing basically was a two year break in my medical career and had to get back to making money for a change so most of the time when they called I was out of town.

Just a side diversion……..Sorry!

Denny

a reply to: DaCook

You really hold a lot of hate in your heart don’t you. Hate for God, hate for Christian and especially Catholic believers.
I’m sure you hate many other people. Hate will eat away at a person till there is nothing left.

True Christians and Catholics hold love in their hearts. Love, and the joy that comes from knowing God. I think you enjoy trying to destroy our faith, you surely try hard enough. Or is it envy? Things maybe not going so well in your life? Maybe lost a loved one and blame God for not intervening?

Many but not all of us have been touched by God, some call it being born again. It’s what we strive for, what we pray for.
That my friend is the power of prayer. Some people think God exists to serve us, they pray to win the lottery or something else they desire. It doesn’t work that way. Science cannot define God, God defines Science.

Christians have been persecuted since their beginning for various reasons, mostly for the concept that there is something greater than man, they fear a loss of control over the people. To them it’s a dangerous belief. Others just can’t stand the fact that we have found pure happiness and joy in our lord and savior, when they themselves just can’t seem to find meaning in their lives.

I’m not an evangelist, believe what you wish. What more can I tell you, Buy a puppy maybe?