Pay Your Fair Share

The language surrounding Biden’s latest boondoggle is so mind-numbing that one can be excused for refusing to listen to it. One instance of this is the president’s doublethink about taxation. Biden claims that his $1.75 trillion Build Back Better plan is already payed for, and this is accomplished by “making sure that the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations begin to pay their fair share in federal taxes”.

This amounts to raising taxes and increasing the power and scope of the agency that will steal the citizen’s money, leading invariably to a greater transfer of wealth and power from the people to the State. Paying your fair share, it seems, is still whatever amount of wealth the State wants to pilfer from you.

Look at the language, though, at least so we can avoid falling prey to it ourselves. The notion that this or that class of people should “pay their fair share” is nonsensical in an already progressive tax system. The system is designed to be unfair, with people being treated according not to some general principle of justice, but to the arbitrary tiers they fall within, and by no other measure. The only hope a tax system can come close to any “fair share" circumstance is equal treatment, which would mean that the State stole from each an exact and equal proportion of their income only—the flat tax rate.

At any rate, none of this resolves the problem of whether theft and forced labor in the form of taxation is fair in the first place. No reasonable ethics would suggest that the mere fact that one has more stuff to steal justifies that it ought to be stolen. Taxation itself is the problem to begin with. So much for paying your fair share.

a reply to: CitizenZero

What will this 1.75 Trillion in debt be used for?

a reply to: CitizenZero

Big business and billionaires control the gov't not the other way around and they are not going to tax themselves more.

If they wanted to pay more there is no law that says that cant give the govt more money than they are obligated to pay. Heck they can even pay other peoples taxes if they wanted too.

So what ever got passed it will mostly effect the high income w2 middle class earners as always. The high income w2 earners aren't able to use the same deductions as the big business nor they have access to the accountants that wrote the loop holes into the laws in the first place.

a reply to: CitizenZero

The top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes. The bottom 50% pays little or no federal taxes. I really want the government to specifically tell us what is the everyone's fair share.

a reply to: tamusan

The top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes.

Thats what it looks like on paper and what they are suppose to pay. However the real issue is not the top 10% its the .001% that skip on paying the fair share.


Do to loopholes, overseas accounts,investments, deductions, and hiring a legal team of experts to file their taxes they end up paying much less than the rest of us on an income to tax ratio. Like Warren buffet says, he pays less taxes than his secretary.

The middle to upper middle-class are the ones that always pick up the real burden.


its the reason why NEITHER party wants a FLAT tax with NO deductions. The tax bracket or ratio means nothing ,when you got ways to hide your money and loophole deductions to use by a dream team of accountants.

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: CitizenZero

The top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes. The bottom 50% pays little or no federal taxes. I really want the government to specifically tell us what is the everyone's fair share.

Therein lies the problem. There is no "fair share". It's an imposter phrase. You'll be paying whatever it is the government tells you to.

It will always confuse me how much Trump ATS derides on the rich as leftist bent on world domination but whenever there’s a chance to hurt them where it count the most for them Trump ATS will be here to defend their pockets.

So confusing…

originally posted by: CitizenZero

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: CitizenZero

The top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes. The bottom 50% pays little or no federal taxes. I really want the government to specifically tell us what is the everyone's fair share.

There is no "fair share". It's an imposter phrase. You'll be paying whatever it is the government tells you to.

A flat tax with NO DEDUCTIONS is the closet we can get.

a reply to: Bunch

It will always confuse me how much Trump ATS derides on the rich as leftist bent on world domination but whenever there’s a chance to hurt them where it count the most for them Trump ATS will be here to defend their pockets.

You are not completely wrong on that.

However, the left is delusional to think the tax laws or revisions they pass will actually make the uber rich pay more versus not making the working middle class pay more.

originally posted by: Bunch
It will always confuse me how much Trump ATS derides on the rich as leftist bent on world domination but whenever there’s a chance to hurt them where it count the most for them Trump ATS will be here to defend their pockets.

So confusing…

It's simple common sense. Whenever you give the government the power to do something for you, you necessarily give them the power to do something to you. If you tax the rich you just end up taxing yourself.

originally posted by: CitizenZero

originally posted by: Bunch
It will always confuse me how much Trump ATS derides on the rich as leftist bent on world domination but whenever there’s a chance to hurt them where it count the most for them Trump ATS will be here to defend their pockets.

So confusing…

It's simple common sense. Whenever you give the government the power to do something for you, you necessarily give them the power to do something to you. If you tax the rich you just end up taxing yourself.

this .

explained much better than I could have.

If it was about paying our fair share, they wouldn't be restoring the SALT cap deductions. Those only benefit people with money.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: tamusan

The top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes.

Thats what it looks like on paper and what they are suppose to pay. However the real issue is not the top 10% its the .001% that skip on paying the fair share.


Do to loopholes, overseas accounts,investments, deductions, and hiring a legal team of experts to file their taxes they end up paying much less than the rest of us on an income to tax ratio. Like Warren buffet says, he pays less taxes than his secretary.

The middle to upper middle-class are the ones that always pick up the real burden.


its the reason why NEITHER party wants a FLAT tax with NO deductions. The tax bracket or ratio means nothing ,when you got ways to hide your money and loophole deductions to use by a dream team of accountants.

That's the thing - whatever that top .001% is or isn't doing, you can guarantee it's completely legal. They're not risking jail for what, to them, amounts to pocket change.

So, what is the purpose of all those IRS agents the admin wants to hire?

It's not to audit the very rich, like they'd have you believe.

Nope. They're going after small businesses who use Quicken or their sister-in-law to keep their books, badly, those who work for cash (thus, the govs desire to track $600 bank movements), and the working poor-to-middle-class for whom things are so tight, they might cheat a bit on their taxes.

Not that anyone shouldn't pay what they owe - but those who think this new "BBB" bill will somehow level the playing field are sadly deluded. All those auditors are coming after *you*.

(They really shouldn't make it so easy for identity thieves to file fraudulent tax returns, and Congress should probably get rid of the EITC for people in the country illegally - there's billions a year paid out to those two things)

a reply to: CitizenZero

This is well put. Not totally in agreement but still a fresh point of view is always welcomed.

a reply to: interupt42

Do to loopholes, overseas accounts,investments, deductions, and hiring a legal team of experts to file their taxes they end up paying much less than the rest of us on an income to tax ratio.

I've used all of the methods that you mentioned in your post, plus a few you didn't mention, and have still paid a lot more than most for taxes over my lifetime. But those days are gone after this year. I can live for the rest of my life on my savings and I'm making the necessary adjustments to put my yearly income at the poverty level.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If it was about paying our fair share, they wouldn't be restoring the SALT cap deductions. Those only benefit people with money.

Don’t fall for all the propaganda please.

Living a California a starter house without no bells or whistles can set you back $450K-$500K. SALT deductions can help many middle, low income families that live in high cost of living locations.

It also helps many military specially junior enlisted that live in high cost locations as well. SALT deductions with income verification or ceiling should be the way to go.

a reply to: [post=26220028]Bunmisunderstanding.

Sorry, people who live there vote for those policies and rates in those states. They made them the high tax he'll holes they are. SALT insulates them from the full force of that lunacy and encourages them to vote for it Federally so we're all screwed.

a reply to: Bunch

a California a starter house without no bells or whistles can set you back $450K-$500K

I solved that problem by selling my fancy California house and buying one that cost about 1/50th of its sale price in Oregon.

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: interupt42

Do to loopholes, overseas accounts,investments, deductions, and hiring a legal team of experts to file their taxes they end up paying much less than the rest of us on an income to tax ratio.

I've used all of the methods that you mentioned in your post, plus a few you didn't mention, and have still paid a lot more than most for taxes over my lifetime. But those days are gone after this year. I can live for the rest of my life on my savings and I'm making the necessary adjustments to put my yearly income at the poverty level.

This. I find every fricken loophole I can and every deduction I can and write off everything I can.
I will pay as little taxes as I can. If people cannot figure out how to do this, that is on them. And I am not rich.

Fair share? F that. Abolish the IRS and the Federal reserve and start privatizing everything. Let me keep the money I make.

There's a hidden big tax break for the rich in the BBB Bill.

See who can find it it's a duuuuzzzzy 🤣