My Thinking on the Covid Vaccines

Hello Everyone,

Long time reader here who normally doesn't bother to post but with the last 2 years happening and seeing all of the arguing back and to about the vaccines I thought I'd try and take a centered approach on the topic.

most of the arguments I've seen being "promoted" by people who are trying to discredit people like me who oppose the vaccine are normally the most outlandish (in my opinion) like world depopulation and control over the people. as for people who are pro-vaccine they think that the vaccine is a wonder drug that will make covid disappear overnight if everyone like myself stops being selfish and just has the jab. but no one really looks at why the vaccines are being pushed hard by both government and the drugs companies and come to the conclusion I have (not many at least).

It's all about the money

even Astra Zenica who "gave the vaccine away" made billions from this without anyone noticing. the way I look at this whole vaccine is that I won't have it till I know more about the long-term data, (at which point if its good and I believe I should have it I definitely will) I've had covid so I "should" have antibodies (should because like with the vaccine not everyone develops antibodies). however, the drug companies are in a win-win situation because a normal drug takes a minimum of 10 years of trials which costs millions if not billions, with this they have managed to get around the trials quickly under the guise of an emergency saving that money.
Then AZ gave away the vaccine giving it good PR (they learned their lesson quickly as they are now selling it for a profit) whilst every other company sold it making billions, now if the vaccine is a fail but the method they are using (MRNA) is successful they can redevelop and make more money plus proving MRNA is safe means they have a possible way of curing other diseases making them even more money. (like HIV, Cancer, dementia)
However, if it all goes wrong they have immunity and it cost them nothing other than a bit of bad publicity afterward and they have to go back to the drawing board.
in terms of the governments, they are taking a gamble when opinions of the elite are at an all-time low anyway. if the gamble pays off they get to say we helped with this and all future vaccines because we knew in our hearts we were right. if they are wrong well in the UK I know at least they are immune from prosecution themselves so again no downsides.

there is one good argument I have heard for the vaccine which is that unlike HIV, Cancer, dementia get funding but not enough. Covid has basically every country saying I don't care about the cost. take my money and find the cure. I do believe that if every disease had the same reaction as this one then things like HIV would have a cure because unfortunately funding is the main issue with research.

In the end, I don't believe that we should have vaccine mandates or that we have inherently bad people running the show, just that business is being business and making strategic moves to maximize profit, Government officials are trying to look like they are active in trying to stop the pandemic and the media is only looking to sell news and we all know bad news sells well causing a cascading effect of more people demanding more societal changes.

unfortunately, just like we see the far left and the far right clashing now, we see people who have had the vaccine and the ones who haven't clashing instead of being reasonable and thinking through the arguments.

1. We are not allowed to know the truth of whether it is manmade or natural novel virus.
2. Some time in the future we will hear about an antidote ( the making of this is something we should all fear ) And who get's the antidote.

a reply to: musicismagic

on point 1. I believe it's manmade in china funded by America and they both # the bed when they learnt it leaked as both countries are currently in the world's # books.

point 2. could be true could be false. I only take into consideration things that make the most logical sense and more importantly we can prove. although with the state of the world it's not much of a stretch to believe this as we have never been so broken as a planet (last time was American independence. this time its the entire world being split in 2)

originally posted by: slowie
a reply to: musicismagic

point 2. could be true could be false. I only take into consideration things that make the most logical sense and more importantly we can prove. although with the state of the world it's not much of a stretch to believe this as we have never been so broken as a planet (last time was American independence. this time its the entire world being split in 2)

And it is a good reason to question the why of it.

There is definately something afoot. They have to keep us distracted, easily manipulated, and afraid. They have to be able to steer and turn us on a dime, or they would lose complete control of us, and that would be one ugly mess.

Whatever is coming will not be pretty. Not for them, and not for us. They have to be able to have some semblance of authority and control, because it will look like the zombies in World War Z.

We have reached the point were people are fed up. We are close to the tipping point, where people have stopped giving a damn. This is a very dangerous place to be.

Once people stop caring, their most efficient weapon becomes useless. That tool/weapon is fear. Once they have taken away the things that most people live for, dying becomes a way out.

It looks like they did not factor in, that when people have the things they cherished the most, stolen from them, their desire for life may wane, but their desire for revenge flares strong.

Scorched earth response may be a tactic used to make the enemy surrender, it can also be a way for the enemy to say "Screw You!"

Another factoid they overlook, is when you know you will end up with nothing, there is a certain satisfaction that comes from making sure your enemy is not able to take possession of what was once yours.

You know the new propaganda, "You will have nothing, and you will be happy"?

They are right. Many will have nothing, and they will be happy, because will make damn sure, if they have nothing, the enemy will also have nothing.

Backing people into a corner only works, when you back in the right people, and when those people are afraid.

It becomes extremely poor strategy when you have stripped the masses of everything worth living for, and making them feel happy about owning nothing.

I am neither for nor against the vaccine (for individuals of consenting age). I find the vitriol of both polar extremes tiresome but more importantly very reminiscent of my earlier days as I struggled free from the mental tyranny inflicted on me by a fundamentalist baptist cult.

The louder and more dramatic the claims of either side become, the less likely I am to listen. This frantic black and white approach is telling. A wise man once said “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. If the claims of either side are anything, they certainly are extraordinary but the evidence is lacking. Each camp lacks integral, albeit different, components necessary to validate their extremist claims.

“Science” (or rather something vaguely resembling it) has become the now religion. Blind faith and mindless devotion has found a new focal point. Validation by way of identifying via ego mass, empty platitudes and vacuous mantras have been pulled from propping up religious extremism and have now been made the underpinnings of the new cult ideology. “Trust the science”. “I follow the science”. “The science shows…”. All of these emphatic statements are most often uttered by laymen, average people, news celebrities and politicians. All of whom know little or nothing directly about which they speak. Instead they rely on hearsay and second-hand information at best. As do I. However, since I recognize the fragile foundation of my knowledge of the subject, I choose to do what any rational thinker would. That is, to withhold judgement.

Atheism is not a positive claim. It is merely a lack of belief in the claims of a theist. So, my approach to the “science” of both the vaccine and the virus is the same. I make no positive claims either way. I am an “a-vaccinist” and an “a-COVIDist” until such time as I am convinced.

I hope someday, we can all have a rational and controlled conversation about all of this. But that hope is becoming harder to maintain. Good luck everyone.

deleted

a reply to: KleenX

I hope someday, we can all have a rational and controlled conversation about all of this. But that hope is becoming harder to maintain. Good luck everyone.

Maybe the time has come for everyone to respect the choices made by others, and it is time to put this baby to bed.

There is no benefit to discussion if the goal is not for self learning, but an attempt to change they way another thinks, to move them to your side of the board.

Medicine has always come with the understanding that no man made medicine is a panacea. What works for some, may be deadly to another.

Science is not concrete, and one size does not fit all.

None of this is about health or well being. This has been about control, from the beginning.

Whether it is about controlling what you allow to be injected into your body, or it is about what you allow to be injected in your mind.

Both the CCP and the US Federal Government were losing power and collapsing before the pandemic. They ganged up on us and other countries.

The systems of a massive slave class and a massive consumer class was failing. China has an aging population and the youth do not want to have kids because their lives are miserable. The US had become a lazy fat welfare state with nobody wanting to do meaningful work or even work for that matter.

So what to do? It's not that hard to figure out IMO. Just hard for people to accept it.

originally posted by: KleenX
I am neither for nor against the vaccine (for individuals of consenting age). I find the vitriol of both polar extremes tiresome but more importantly very reminiscent of my earlier days as I struggled free from the mental tyranny inflicted on me by a fundamentalist baptist cult.

The louder and more dramatic the claims of either side become, the less likely I am to listen. This frantic black and white approach is telling. A wise man once said “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. If the claims of either side are anything, they certainly are extraordinary but the evidence is lacking. Each camp lacks integral, albeit different, components necessary to validate their extremist claims.

“Science” (or rather something vaguely resembling it) has become the now religion. Blind faith and mindless devotion has found a new focal point. Validation by way of identifying via ego mass, empty platitudes and vacuous mantras have been pulled from propping up religious extremism and have now been made the underpinnings of the new cult ideology. “Trust the science”. “I follow the science”. “The science shows…”. All of these emphatic statements are most often uttered by laymen, average people, news celebrities and politicians. All of whom know little or nothing directly about which they speak. Instead they rely on hearsay and second-hand information at best. As do I. However, since I recognize the fragile foundation of my knowledge of the subject, I choose to do what any rational thinker would. That is, to withhold judgement.

Atheism is not a positive claim. It is merely a lack of belief in the claims of a theist. So, my approach to the “science” of both the vaccine and the virus is the same. I make no positive claims either way. I am an “a-vaccinist” and an “a-COVIDist” until such time as I am convinced.

I hope someday, we can all have a rational and controlled conversation about all of this. But that hope is becoming harder to maintain. Good luck everyone.

Reserving judgement until you get extraordinary proof makes you a very patient person. Unfortunately you have to actively seek the evidence before it will get dropped in your lap. You will have to prove or disprove to your satisfaction like you did to get away from the religious cult mind set. I was in the LDS Church from about 9 years old. I did the research and renounced my membership and I'm no longer officially a Mormon so I think I understand the struggle you had (knowing Baptists, you probably had it much worse).

a reply to: slowie

Sadly, it is about much more than money. The obscene profits are only the icing on the cake.

Ample data and facts exist showing this was a planned event.

10 months of data and research about what the shots do and what they contain clearly show there is much more involved than just profits.

The names of the big players like Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab show this is an agenda advanced by eugenicists and wicked men.

a reply to: Salander

any links to documents I can read please. I only ask this because as usual the actual facts have been muddied so much by all sides. like fauci saying that NIH didn't fund gain of function and called sen. paul a lier under oath (I believe) yet

Link to Article

which shows proof that he was lying without a shadow of a doubt that it did and possibly created this virus itself

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Yes. I know full well the onus is on me.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Yes. I am aware that evil people exist in the highest seats of government. Evil people who have not and will not let this go to waste. I will remain vigilant.

a reply to: slowie Agreed that the vaccination is terrible! nice post!

originally posted by: slowie
as for people who are pro-vaccine they think that the vaccine is a wonder drug that will make covid disappear overnight if everyone like myself stops being selfish and just has the jab.

Hon. You are NOT selfish for refusing the vax, they are. Only selfish people expect a quick fix shot or a quick fix pill as a shortcut to alleged "immunity". Only selfish people refuse to build up their own immune systems the RIGHT and correct healthy way so they can fight off diseases. And only selfish people want to force others into shots that won't even save them, immunity wanes after 6 months.

So no, you are NOT selfish. They are.

Besides it's somewhat ridiculous. In the United States, politicians and Fauci try to claim that 68 million unvaccinated are causing the world's Covid problems. In reality, 4 billion people are unvaccinated. So the mere 68 million in the United States won't make a dent in the 4 billion unvaccinated on the planet.

a reply to: KleenX

Good post.

Scientism™ is their religion.

Transhumanism™ is their goal.

Technocracy™ is their set of tools, and management and control tactics.

But don't believe me, am just making everything up.

So the time of the corporations owning the governments might be starting.
Pfizer taking all the profit and none of the risks. Even if the people rebel Pfizer gets paid and has no legal responsibilities.