Everything that Is Happening And Worse Things Will Occur And Our Leaders Know This.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

My mother went to ask for some winter clothes and a few toys at a church that was known for being charitable but the head nun told my mother to her face, and I was right there, that we didn't deserve either clothes nor toys. My mother was left crying, and we had no one else to turn to.

to me that's just unconscionable.

sad fact is people, and churches, are all flawed and will inevitably disappoint.
thus we must keep our eyes on Jesus and not be distracted.

not sure of exact wording but at one point Bible says 'because of you, My Name is blasphemed among the unbelievers'. 'you' refers to so-called servants and believers who mistreat fellow humans.

I'm glad you were able to go beyond this treatment and have a real relationship with God.

You are correct.

His siblings didnt believe in him at first, from what I recall, but they all did later, and some of them, at least two became his disciples.

There is another point he made, when he said" who is my MOTHER, who are my brothers?" It seems that part of my comment went unnoticed by some in this thread. She was just a Godly woman. Nothing more. She is not to be worshipped, and she would be very unhappy to hear people were doing so.

Mary stayed a virgin the whole time, until after she gave birth to her son( which she named after Joshua). Later on she and her husband consummated their marriage and love for each other and not only enjoyed a sexual relationship, but also had multiple children in doing so. These things are all recorded in the Bible

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

They weren't Jesus' "spiritual brothers"; they were his siblings after his birth. The verses below are questioning his immediate family and where Jesus obtained his wisdom and powers from.

Matthew 13:54-56

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

In Matthew 1:25 the Bible says that Joseph "knew her not", meaning Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary until after the birth of Jesus, their "firstborn son". After that, Joseph and Mary had children of their own.

By the way, NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that Mary would be able to intercede for anyone. While we are all capable of praying to God to help one another, as humans, we have no other powers to intercede. The Bible NEVER suggests that we should pray to the souls of the dead. Only God is worthy of our prayers and the Bible says so.

In the Bible verses already presented by another, it's clear that Jesus considered everyone who did God's will as part of his family, and he DID NOT say or designate anything special to Mary other than the fact that she was righteous enough to physically carry the seed of God. That's the only thing that made her special.

a reply to: ElGoobero


In the end times, we are told in scripture that there will be a great turning away from God. A spiritual waxing cold. That's exactly what we are seeing right now. Churches preaching prosperity and feel good sermons. Pure nonsense. Materialism creates enmity with God

It would appear that we are fast approaching the great tribulation period. there will be disease, death and plagues. I'm pretty sure that the first 3.5 years of these are man made. After half time ( 3.5 years in) is when things get very seriously scary. The way things are looking now, I would expect the tribulation to begin this year or next.

Catholicism is Christian?

a reply to: Raggedyman

My response to you is very similar to what I will explain to "Determined." So I will only state it once below this response.

a reply to: Deetermined

The words brother and sister back then were used to also describe close relatives such as uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins, etc.

For example. The story of Abraham and Lot. We know that Abraham was the uncle of Lot, so Lot was Abraham's nephew. Yet there are parts in the bible in which the word brothers is used when it was referring to these two.

Gen 13:8, NIV

Genesis 13:8 — New Century Version (NCV)

8 Abram said to Lot, “There should be no arguing between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, because we are brothers.
...
Genesis 13:8 — English Standard Version (ESV)

8 Then Abram said to Lot, “Let there be no strife between you and me, and between your herdsmen and my herdsmen, for we are kinsmen.


Genesis 13:8 — King James Version (KJV 1900)

8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

...

biblia.com...

Notice that the word brother is exchanged in other bible versions to either "relatives," "kinsmen" or even "brethren."

So in that context sisters and brothers were used to describe other close relatives.

As for James and Joseph being described as brothers of Jesus. They were indeed the sons of Mary, but not the Virgin Mary. They were the sons of Mary of Clopas. Clopas was the brother of Joseph, husband of the Virgin Mary. So in reality James and Joseph are cousins of Jesus. They are not his siblings.

...
At the death of Jesus, we are told that Mary wife of Cleophas/Clopas (Jn 19:25) was present. She was described as the mother of James and Joseph (Mt 27:56) /b]
...

www.ewtn.com...

Also for example in 1 Corinthians 15:6 It says:

"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."
...

www.biblegateway.com...

Are we to infer from that that Jesus had more than 500 brothers and sisters? Of course not. in this context brothers and sisters is a reference to spiritual brothers and sisters.

Also, during the crucifixion of Christ Joseph, husband of the Virgin Mary, is not said to be there and there is no mention of him being alive. So he was probably dead.

If the Virging Mary had more sons they would have taken the responsibility of taking care of her. But because Jesus tells his mother that John is now her son, and he tells John that the Virgin Mary is "now" John's mother. Jesus was telling John to take care of Mary since she had no other sons or daughters to take care of her.

In fact we know that John stays in the area, probably to take care of the Virgin Mary, for many years meanwhile all other disciples go in all directions to preach the teachings of Jesus.

All evidence points to the fact that the Virgin Mary did not have other sons or daughters.

originally posted by: biggilo
Catholicism is Christian?

Yes. Catholicism was started by Saint Peter. One of the disciples of Jesus.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Yeah, unfortunately you find evil people in all walks of life, and in all religions. The same can be said of atheism.
In the end no matter how people are brought up, even if their parents beat them, or treated them ill, etc. If members of society treat you ill, it is the choice of each individual as to whom they become. It is no one else's responsibility what each person choose to become. That is personal responsibility.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: biggilo
Catholicism is Christian?

Yes. Catholicism was started by Saint Peter. One of the disciples of Jesus.

So they claim but are they actually Christians? Idolatry and claiming men can absolve sins are just a couple of examples of how they aren't.

So your message is fear tomorrow. That message has been same message for last 2000 years.

The desire for salvation empowers the mind.
The fears of tomorrow empowers the mind.

Where is the spiritual essence in any of that?

The core of our being is the image of God. The I AM THAT I AM that exist before mind. Paul said that spirit is one. Meaning we all are one spirit experiencing life through multiple instances of mind. Whilst we exist as mind in fear of tomorrow we cannot exist as spirit in the now. That is a contradiction.

Instead of seeing light with your mind. Be one with the light with the core of your being.

originally posted by: biggilo

So they claim but are they actually Christians? Idolatry and claiming men can absolve sins are just a couple of examples of how they aren't.

In John 20:23 Jesus tells his disciples:

“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:23).

biblehub.com...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Deetermined

The words brother and sister back then were used to also describe close relatives such as uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins, etc.

For example. The story of Abraham and Lot. We know that Abraham was the uncle of Lot, so Lot was Abraham's nephew. Yet there are parts in the bible in which the word brothers is used when it was referring to these two.

Gen 13:8, NIV

Genesis 13:8 — New Century Version (NCV)

8 Abram said to Lot, “There should be no arguing between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, because we are brothers.
...
Genesis 13:8 — English Standard Version (ESV)

8 Then Abram said to Lot, “Let there be no strife between you and me, and between your herdsmen and my herdsmen, for we are kinsmen.


Genesis 13:8 — King James Version (KJV 1900)

8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

...

biblia.com...

Notice that the word brother is exchanged in other bible versions to either "relatives," "kinsmen" or even "brethren."

So in that context sisters and brothers were used to describe other close relatives.

As for James and Joseph being described as brothers of Jesus. They were indeed the sons of Mary, but not the Virgin Mary. They were the sons of Mary of Clopas. Clopas was the brother of Joseph, husband of the Virgin Mary. So in reality James and Joseph are cousins of Jesus. They are not his siblings.

...
At the death of Jesus, we are told that Mary wife of Cleophas/Clopas (Jn 19:25) was present. She was described as the mother of James and Joseph (Mt 27:56) /b]
...

www.ewtn.com...

Also for example in 1 Corinthians 15:6 It says:

"After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep."
...

www.biblegateway.com...

Are we to infer from that that Jesus had more than 500 brothers and sisters? Of course not. in this context brothers and sisters is a reference to spiritual brothers and sisters.

Also, during the crucifixion of Christ Joseph, husband of the Virgin Mary, is not said to be there and there is no mention of him being alive. So he was probably dead.

If the Virging Mary had more sons they would have taken the responsibility of taking care of her. But because Jesus tells his mother that John is now her son, and he tells John that the Virgin Mary is "now" John's mother. Jesus was telling John to take care of Mary since she had no other sons or daughters to take care of her.

In fact we know that John stays in the area, probably to take care of the Virgin Mary, for many years meanwhile all other disciples go in all directions to preach the teachings of Jesus.

All evidence points to the fact that the Virgin Mary did not have other sons or daughters.

I could explain it 100 times and you still wouldn’t understand because you know better than everyone
Don’t misconstrue English and Greek, you read an interpretation and demand everyone else interprets it as you do

Brethren is English and modern, the original Greek word is not brethren and you don’t even pretend you comprehend it or it even exists

Mary was married to a man, as if he left her alone

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry, but Catholics will continue to get this wrong. Mary was not a perpetual virgin and Matthew 1:25 makes that clear.

Matthew 1:25

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Luke 8:19-21

19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.

20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.

21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

It's clear based on the conversation above that Jesus knows they are talking about his true mother and brothers, but he is confirming once again that he considers those who hear the word of God as being his mother and brothers. To say they are talking about the same thing here lacks all common sense and logic.

Acts 1:13-14

13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Once again, the verses above are pointing out that the disciples listed in 13 are separate from the brethren in verse 14. There is no point in mentioning the brethren after the mention of Mary unless they were her children.

Just as the Bible says that no disciple or pastor should take on the title of "Father", "Rabbi", or "Master", but Catholics do it anyway. As you have mentioned, they have gotten many things wrong, and this is just another one in a long list of them. No church is perfect, but don't defend something that is unbiblical.

Church leaders and members are all brothers, but Catholic priests have created their own hierarchy, which is against the command of Jesus. With that said, NO, Peter did not start the first Catholic church. You have been misled. Peter would not have disobeyed this command from Jesus.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

originally posted by: myselfaswell

No. Assuming such a thing exists, I'm saying that God should just bloody well show up and put an end to this sh!t show and cut it with the cryptic BS.

You know, just turn up, wave to the crowd say hello, that sort of thing.

Some of us are currently too busy utilising our free will in trying to stay out of the gulags the psychos on this planet are currently building. Just saying now would be a good time to show your face dude.

When God comes it will be irreversible, so in the mean time we are still left in the sandbox (which we were given clear instructions on how to behave in the meantime). God is literally our only hope... we do our part, but ultimately we have no power over death, and therefore our soul is in God's hands

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Is there a transcript? I am interested, but cannot listen.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry, but Catholics will continue to get this wrong. Mary was not a perpetual virgin and Matthew 1:25 makes that clear.

I can't imagine there are any theologically perfect Christian institutions, but remember to focus on the fact that whoever is not against us is for us. Focus on the coherence of the Christ body, rather than the subtle theological differences among the sects.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry, but Catholics will continue to get this wrong. Mary was not a perpetual virgin and Matthew 1:25 makes that clear.

I can't imagine there are any theologically perfect Christian institutions, but remember to focus on the fact that whoever is not against us is for us. Focus on the coherence of the Christ body, rather than the subtle theological differences among the sects.

While I understand what you are saying, many of Electric Universe's own posts here mention the infiltration of the Catholic church and he has posted a couple of videos regarding The Third Fatima that I think everyone needs to take into consideration with some skepticism, especially any prophecies or videos that revolve around the apparitions of Mary. While I personally believe that any claimed prophecy has the potential to be partially correct based on the fact that even Satan is full of half-truths, we need to be able to weed out what's biblical and what's not in order to determine which parts might have some merit and which ones don't from a biblical perspective.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I could explain it 100 times and you still wouldn’t understand because you know better than everyone
Don’t misconstrue English and Greek, you read an interpretation and demand everyone else interprets it as you do

Brethren is English and modern, the original Greek word is not brethren and you don’t even pretend you comprehend it or it even exists

Mary was married to a man, as if he left her alone

You used some obscure website no one knows about, but you ignore the thousands of scholars (including the large majority of secular scholars of the bible) whom have studied the bible in all languages and agree with the interpretations/translations.

Here, let me prove to you in Greek how wrong you are. In 1Corinthians 15:6 it says in Greek.

"6 ἔπειτα ὤφθη ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐφάπαξ, ἐξ ὧν οἱ πλείονες μένουσιν ἕως ἄρτι, τινὲς δὲ ἐκοιμήθησαν:"

The translation is:

"After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

This is the Greek word "ἀδελφοῖς" or "adelphois" mean brothers, brethren (including in the spiritual context)

The Greek word "πεντακοσίοις" or "pentakosiois" means to 500.

The Greek word "epanw" or "epanO" is literally translated as over.

scripture4all.org...

greekbible.com...

So that phrase states that Jesus had over 500 brethren whom saw him after rising from the tomb. But you want to defy what thousands of scholars have stated that phrase means, and as proof you give an obscure website no one knows about?...

Anyone for a long time now can make their own website and claim whatever they want. But facts debunk your claims and those of obscure websites like the one you tried to use.

If what you claimed was true, then Jesus had over 500 siblings? That would be a feat and a miracle of itself. But you are wrong, the word "ἀδελφοῖς" or "adelphois" was used in Greek to mean not just siblings, but also brethren in a spiritual context.

In fact, throughout the bible you will find the word "adelphois" used to mean "spiritual brothers/sisters" and not just siblings as you keep trying to claim.

In Matthew 12:48-49 Jesus said: (from the Greek bible)

"48 ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν τῷ λέγοντι αὐτῷ, Τίς ἐστιν ἡ μήτηρ μου, καὶ τίνες εἰσὶν οἱ ἀδελφοί μου; 49καὶ ἐκτείνας τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοὺς μαθητὰς αὐτοῦ εἶπεν, Ἰδοὺ ἡ μήτηρ μου καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοί μου:"

Which translates to:

"48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And Jesus responded(as per the Greek bible):

"49 καὶ ἐκτείνας τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοὺς μαθητὰς αὐτοῦ εἶπεν, Ἰδοὺ ἡ μήτηρ μου καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοί μου: "

Which translates to:
"49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!"

What Jesus was saying above is that spiritual brothers and sisters are more important than biological brothers and sisters/biological family. Because those whom follow him/Jesus/Elohim/God and his mandates are part of the family of Jesus.

Remember that throughout the bible, in any language, Jesus tells his followers to leave even their families if they do not follow Jesus teachings.

If your brother or sister disagrees with you in belief (doesn't believe in Elohim/God and does not follow his mandates/laws), but you have a friend whom shares your beliefs (in specific about Elohim/God) and whom follows the mandates of Elohim/God. That friend is more your brother or sister than your biological brother or sister whom does not share your belief in God/Elohim and his mandates.

That's what Jesus was saying in the above.

BTW, remember that Jesus helped and cured many people whom are first were not his followers. Jesus also knew whether someone's family would follow him and whether they would be okay if the father/mother/son/daughter would leave their family. Just like Jesus would cure and help those that did not believe in him first, he would also not forsake entirely the families of those he asked if they wanted to follow him and his teachings.

originally posted by: Deetermined

Sorry, but Catholics will continue to get this wrong. Mary was not a perpetual virgin and Matthew 1:25 makes that clear.
...

You seem to have no idea that St. Anne, Mary's mother, had vowed to the Lord that if she was able to have a child that child would forever more devote her services to the Lord at the Temple. This meant that the Virgin Mary could never have the regular life of a wife.

Part of the reason Joseph was chosen is because he had already been married and was an elder widower.

Even the "Protovangelium of James" makes it clear that the Virgin Mary indeed vowed to a life of perpetual virginity and lived such a life.

originally posted by: Deetermined
Matthew 1:25

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Luke 8:19-21
...

...
Until Then

Scripture’s statement that Joseph “knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn” would not necessarily mean they did “know” each other after she brought forth Jesus. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? By no means. A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples:

2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)
1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)
1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, “he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”)
...

The Case for Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

...
According to the world-renowned patristics scholar, Johannes Quasten:

“The principal aim of the whole writing [Protoevangelium of James] is to prove the perpetual and inviolate virginity of Mary before, in, and after the birth of Christ”. (Patrology, 1:120–1).

To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.

However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated “virgin of the Lord,” to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).
...

francismary.org...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Virgin Mary had other sons, or daughters. As i have explained time and again, it was tradition in those times that when the husband died the son, or any son/daugher that is alive takes care of the mother. But since Mary had no other children this is part of the reason Jesus told John that from now on his mother was Mary, so John would take care of Mary because there was no one else to take care of her since Joseph was already dead.

This together with the fact that Mary's mother St Anne had vowed to the Lord that if she got pregnant her child would devote her/his entire life to the Lord at the temple makes it impossible for Mary to break that vow. Plus the Protoevangelium of James also attests to the Virgin Mary for ever being a virgin.