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Originally posted by papagrinch
[...]
Theologians also say it is Russia invading Israel. That is not technically accurate. If you read the prophecy, it says that they (Russia) have hooks put in their mouth and are dragged. ......
I believe that Israel gets into a war with one of the surrounding countries (probably Syria). ..............
I also think this event is not too far off so I would appreciate some input even if you disagree.
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
It shall come to pass, (that) at the same time shall things come into thy mind,
and you (Gog) shall think an evil thought:
And thou shalt say,
I will go to the land of unwalled villages,
I will go to them that are at rest,
that dwell safely,
all of them dwelling without walls,
and having neither bars nor gates.
to take spoil, and to take a prey;
to turn thine hand upon the desolate places(that are now) inhabited,
and upon the people (that are) gathered out of the nations,
which have gotten cattle and goods,
and dwell in the midst of the land.
Originally posted by papagrinch
I appreciate your input. I don't think the antichrist can take credit for the destruction of Magogs army. Ezekiel says they will be destroyed by 100 pound hailstones, and an earthquake that causes the mountains to fall on them. That is why I think the Jews will recognize it as the hand of God. That is also why it can't be during the battle of Armageddon. In that war, the physical return of Christ is what destroys the armies. So, it looks to me like it goes like this: Israel at war, Damascus destroyed, Russia heads south and gets killed in the mountains, Israel rebuilds temple and restarts sacrifice, Antichrist shows up fools world for 3 1/2 years, announces who he is, hell on Earth for 3 1/2 years, Christ returns, peace for 1000 years, Final judgement
Originally posted by daboga75
Yes, but isn't the "AntiChrist" supposed to be given "God-like" powers, to 'decieve even the elect if it were possible'?
Not sure, just asking.
Originally posted by papagrinch
I don't think I've ever seen this prophecy discussed on ATS. I won't post the scripture but it is Ezekial chapters 38 and 39. It concerns a future war. Most theologians place this war during Armageddon. I don't think it is. I think it is before. I also think it is the event that causes the Jewish people to finally rebuild their temple. Theologians also say it is Russia invading Israel. That is not technically accurate. If you read the prophecy, it says that they (Russia) have hooks put in their mouth and are dragged. That doesn't sound like they are coming willingly. I believe that Israel gets into a war with one of the surrounding countries (probably Syria). Russia is then forced to uphold the "mutual defense" contract it signed. Israel doesn't stand a chance, except, the Russian army is destroyed in the mountains by an act of God. Then the Jewish people realize who saved them and rebuild the temple. I also think this event is not too far off so I would appreciate some input even if you disagree.
And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: Ezekiel 38:1-3 (KJV)
The word of the Lord came to me: "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophecy against him and say: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal..." Ezekiel 38:1-3 (NIV)
Now these are the lines of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah: sons were born to them after the Flood. The descendants of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. Genesis 10:1-2 (JPS)
"Now they were the grand-children of Noah, in honor of whom names were imposed on the nations by those that first seized upon them. Japhet, the son of Noah, and seven sons: they inhabited so, that, beginning at the mountain Taurus and Amanus, they proceeded along Asia, as far as the river Tanais, and along Europe to Cadiz; and setting themselves on the lands which they light upon, which none had inhabited before, they called the nations by their own names; for Gomer founded those whom the Greeks now call Galations [Galls], but were then called Gomerites. Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians. Now as to Javan and Madai, the sons of Japhet; from Madai came the Madeans, who are called Medes by the Greeks; but from Javan, Ionia and all the Grecians are derived. Thobel [Tubal] founded the Thobelites, who are now called Iberes; and the Mosocheni were founded by Mosoch [Meshech]; now they are Cappadocians. There is also a mark of their ancient denomination still to be shown; for there is even now among them a city called Mazaca, which may inform those that are able to understand, that so was the entire nation once called...Now when I have premised somewhat, which perhaps the Greeks do not know, I will return and explain what I have omitted; for such names are pronounced here after the manner of the Greeks, to please my readers; for our own country language does not so pronounce them; but the names in all cases are of one and the same ending; for the name we here pronounce Noeas, is there Noah, and in every case retains the same termination."
"Scythia, then, is four-sided, with two parts reaching to the sea; and the frontiers that run inland and those that run to the sea are exactly equal. For from the Ister [Danube] to the Borysthenes [Dnieper] is a journey of ten days, and from the Borysthenes to the Maeetian lake [Sea of Azov] is ten days again; and from the seacoast inland as far as the Black Cloaks, who live above the Scythians, is a twenty days' journey. The day's journey I have figured out to be four thousand stades."
Then he followed another way, Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (All⨩ had provided no shelter against the sun. So (it was)! And We knew all about him (Dhul-Qarnain). Then he followed (another) way, Until, when he reached between two mountains, he found, before (near) them (those two mountains), a people who scarcely understood a word. They said: "O Dhul-Qarnain! Verily! Ya'j?d Ma'j?>(Gog and Magog) are doing great mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a tribute in order that you might erect a barrier between us and them?" He said: "That (wealth, authority and power) in which my Lord had established me is better (than your tribute). So help me with strength (of men), I will erect between you and them a barrier. "Give me pieces (blocks) of iron," then, when he had filled up the gap between the two mountain-cliffs, he said: "Blow," till when he had made it (red as) fire, he said: "Bring me molten copper to pour over it." So they [Ya'j?d Ma'j?>(Gog and Magog)] were made powerless to scale it or dig through it. Dhul-Qarnain) said: "This is a mercy from my Lord, but when the Promise of my Lord comes, He shall level it down to the ground. And the Promise of my Lord is ever true." And on that Day [i.e. the Day Ya'j?d Ma'j?b>Gog and Magog) will come out], We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another, and the Trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
[Magog], is the proper name of a son of Japhet, Genesis 10:2; also of a region, and a great and powerful people of the same name, inhabiting the extreme recesses of the north, who are at some time to invade the Holy Land (Ezekiel, Chapters 38, 39). We are to understand just the same nations as the Greeks comprised under the name of the Scythians (Josephus, i.6, par. 1). The Arabs call them Yajuj and Majuj, and they have many fables about them. Their king is called [Gog]. See Koran, Sur. xviii. 94-99; Assemani Biblioth. Orient. t. iii. p. ii. pp. 16, 17, 20; D'Herbelot, Biblioth. Orient. art. Jagiugh. In the same manner are joined Chin and Machin, i.e. the Chinese. The syllable ma in these names denoting place, region, has of late been learnedly discussed by Frahn, De Musei Spreviziani Nummis Cuficis, page 95.
1.) Of the prince of the land of Magog, Ezekiel 38: 2,3,14,16,18; 39:1,11; also of the Rossi, Moschi, and Tibareni, who is to come with great forces from the extreme north (38:15; 39:2), after the exile (38:8, 12), to invade the holy land, and to perish there, as prophesied by Ezekiel...
2.) of a Reubenite, I Chronicles 5:4.-
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.
Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power: Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch...
...Judah, thou art he whom thy brethen shall praise: they hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee...The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Genesis 49: 1-48,8,10 (KJV)
Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's The sons, I say, of Reuben the firstborn of Israel were, Hanoch, and Pallu, Hezron and Carmi. The sons of Joel; Shermaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son. I Chronicles 5:1-4 (KJV)
"...I noticed that mention was also made of 'King Alexander of Macedonia' in a context that linked him to 'Gog and Magog'. This caught my eye because I remembered that Alexander, Gog and Magog had been connected in an almost identical manner in a very ancient Ethiopic manuscript known as the Lefafa Sedek, the 'Bandlet of Righteousness', which was supposedly unknown outside Abyssinia until the nineteenth century."(3)
"Rosh: proper name of a northern nation, mentioned with Tubal and Meshech; undoubtedly the Russians, who are mentioned by Byzantine writers of the tenth century...dwelling to the north of Taurus, and described by Ibn Fossian, an Arabic writer of the same age, as welling on the river Rha (Wolga). (See Ibn Fosslan, Bericht von den Russen alterer Zeit, ubersetzt and erklart von Frahn. Petersburgh, 1823, especially p. 28, seqq. Compare Jos. de Hammer, Origines Russes, Petersburgh, 1827, who also here compares the nation...in the Koran, Koran xv.31:1.12.)"
"Tubal - proper name the Tibareni, a nation of Asia Minor, dwelling by the Euxine sea, to the west of the Moschi...
Meshech - proper name Moschi, a barbarous people inhabiting the Moschian mountains, between Iberia [Spain], Armenia, and Colchis, Psalms 120:5, almost always joined with the neighboring Tibareni...just as in Herodotus...A pronunciation more near to the Greek form is found in the Samaritan copy...Mosoch."
"And while no on knows the exact location of the land of Magog, going north from Israel will eventually land you in Russia. And even if it is later determined that the land of Magog is located in modern-day Turkey or the land bridge between the Black and Caspian Seas, this does not rule out he possibility that these areas are conquered by Russia in the days immediately before the Rapture (which I believe we are living in) or immediately after.
Whatever the identify of "Gog, of the land of Magog," it is leading many nations in the war against Israel and the Jewish people. Interestingly enough, a substantial number of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38 an 39 have been allied with Russia in recent times: 'These include Iran ('Persia'), Sudan and northern Ethiopia ('Cush'), Libya ('Put'), and Turkey ('Meshech', 'Tubal', 'Gomer', and 'Beth Togarmah').'"(11)
Originally posted by dbrandt
magog / gog
Originally posted by freddieb
I'f I'm not mistaken, the temple is supposed to be built before the Armegedon. That's why you don't have to worry about that being in the near future.
When you see the Abomination of Desolation, of which Daniel spoke, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)..."Matt 24:15
and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. Daniel 11: 3
And thou shalt say,
I will go to the land of unwalled villages,
I will go to them that are at rest,
that dwell safely,
all of them dwelling without walls,
and having neither bars nor gates
ezekial 38
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army-your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops-the many nations with you.
13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages will say to you, "Have you come to plunder?"
From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me.