Question to pro-vaxxers

a reply to: jeffsfrye

What was your source for saying that antibodies produced as a result of the vaccines cannot be detected?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Kreeate

I have no idea if you will be labeled a charlatan and a killer.

Well, that's honest at least. Thanks for that.
Going with the local doctor is of course always best.
Good on you for not assuming that role. Much appreciated and respected.

Here's one:
www.fda.gov...

From my understanding not all tests test for the antibody that the vaccine provides and the test that I got can although it is relatively new. Meaning they didn't have it while the initial clinical trials were going on.

a reply to: jeffsfrye

Your source:

However, antibody tests should not be used at this time to determine immunity or protection against COVID-19 at any time, and especially after a person has received a COVID-19 vaccination.

And this is still true. While antibodies can be detected, the level of "immunity or protection" offered cannot be determined.

Give me a minute I will find the actual study I initially read that brought this point up. They mentioned that the type of antibody they tested people with was unable to detect the type of antibody the vaccine supposedly helped you build.

a reply to: jeffsfrye

Possible, in the case of the general public, I suppose. But it has nothing to do with the efficacy of the vaccines. They work. They cause the production of antibodies. I showed you three studies. Do you want more?

a reply to: Phage

Possibly, but if they didn't test all of the people that were part of the vaccine clinical trial for antibodies BEFORE they were vaccinated, then how would you know if it was the vaccine or their own natural immunity that prevented them from getting hospitalized or developing symptoms?

a reply to: jeffsfrye

As I said, that same question applies to both groups.

That would mean that the data isn't right. You can't possibly know what percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated had prior immunity. The only way would be to test everyone for the antibody first. Then separate them into groups. Then have a control group. EDIT: I suppose you could give everyone a test for the antibody to the nucleocapsid proteins? That might give some indication.
a reply to: Phage

a reply to: jeffsfrye

In lieu of that (which is quite impractical) is there some reason to suppose that there would be a great difference in the numbers of those with prior infection in either the vaccinated group or unvaccinated group when looking at millions upon millions of cases and thousands of hospitalizations?

Only if you know exactly how many had natural infection prior to the vaccine. When you hear that 95% of the COVID breakout at the Tyson Plant were asymptomatic it kind of make you wonder. Wasn't the original clinical trials proven to be the same percent? If you do not know that number exactly then how do we really know? How are they proving that they didn't have a prior infection if they don't first test for antibodies?

a reply to: Phage

a reply to: jeffsfrye

Only if you know exactly how many had natural infection prior to the vaccine.

Again, it seems that you are assuming that those with prior infection may be greatly over-represented in the vaccinated group as opposed to the unvaccinated.

While that is feasible when talking about samples of relatively small size, it falls apart when millions are involved.

For the Pfizer trials those with "presumed" prior infection (based on symptomology) and those with a prior positive NAAT test were excluded.

a reply to: MrNewWorldOrder

Believe what you want; I'm living proof.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xtrozero

So what is your answer here my friend to let COVID do its thing and carry on?

Isn't that what we're doing?

Economic lockdowns, social distancing, isolating the elderly from their loved ones, face masks, vaccines, treatments, and the Chinese virus is still surviving and even thriving! And the continual mantra seems to be "More! More! More things that don't work!"

All I have done is describe what my experiences are, both for me and for many of my loved ones. As I said, it's not something one can simply decide to try because there's a virus out there... if someone has not been busily keeping their immunity strong before, it's too late now. Might as well keep trusting the doctors, because once the immune system is weakened, it takes a long, long time to get it back.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
if someone has not been busily keeping their immunity strong before, it's too late now. Might as well keep trusting the doctors, because once the immune system is weakened, it takes a long, long time to get it back.

TheRedneck

Not sure how to keep my immunity strong and I'm sure 99% of other Americans are the same, so what is the second option... vaccine?

originally posted by: Phage

In lieu of that (which is quite impractical) is there some reason to suppose that there would be a great difference in the numbers of those with prior infection in either the vaccinated group or unvaccinated group when looking at millions upon millions of cases and thousands of hospitalizations?

I'm sure they did a questionnaire first so that would eliminate a percentage, but I would think doing random section per group those with prior infection might not play much into it all when you probably have about the same per group.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yup. That's the "R" in RCT.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not sure how to keep my immunity strong and I'm sure 99% of other Americans are the same

There are a ton of people who will gladly tell you all about it.

And a lot of them will be happy to sell you stuff that really, really works!

A friend told me not to do chemo. Adamant that it would kill me. I didn't listen and he was wrong. Haven't seen him in 30 years or so.

originally posted by: Phage

And a lot of them will be happy to sell you stuff that really, really works!

A friend told me not to do chemo. Adamant that it would kill me. I didn't listen and he was wrong. Haven't seen him in 30 years or so.

So I drink bourbon neat and smoke cigars just about every night and I'm healthy as hell at 61, so I think I found my way to get my strong immunity mojo.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah.

Gin 'n tonic here, mostly. The quinine is good for COVID and the lime fights scurvy. It works. I have contracted neither. Or maybe it the juniper that's the trick.