Question to pro-vaxxers

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
The vaccine is not going to get less leaky. The boosters are just more of the same. The virus isn't going to mutate back to the original strain.

I guess my point is "leaky" actually means nothing. The word has been molded into a weapon and it really has zero consequences on the reality of it all. It does lower transmission due to less days a person is infected as it lowers the level one gets sick.

For the old and high risk not getting too sick if they get it is like life or death to them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Don't minimize the fact that they are leaky. Call it what you want. It's a dangerous situation because the vaccinated are still becoming infected in alarming numbers and spreading it.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

No, it means that people who have gotten it are still getting infected and spreading it. No one disputes that's the reality.

True, but at a lower rate than if they didn't get the vaccine, AND getting vaccinated doesn't set up a situation where more variants would come about compared to if everyone was unvaxxed.

The bottom line is the vaccine gives a person a much, and I mean MUCH, better chance to not get sick enough to end up in the hospital for weeks. If you can reduce the days a person can spread it then you reduce the overall spread. COVID is like a cold...It is not if but when you will get it. If you have zero anti-bodies from the vaccine and you are high risk then good luck since the virus is pretty nasty in that group.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
For the old and high risk not getting too sick if they get it is like life or death to them.

I understand that. It's like that with the flu.That is the life cycle in action.

But, according to the recent data out of the UK, people under 50 are dying at a higher rate when they are fully vaccinated. THAT is unacceptable. And they want children to get these vaccines!

The only ones breezing through is the curious group they label 'Unlinked.' Shady AF.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Don't minimize the fact that they are leaky. Call it what you want. It's a dangerous situation because the vaccinated are still becoming infected in alarming numbers and spreading it.

That is not really true... unvaccinated are still like 9 times higher or worst to getting it. The other side is the vaccinated are not getting as sick either, so you have less of a spread with much lower numbers needing medical care.

You treat this as an all or nothing event. If the vaxx isn't 100% then it is useless and that is a stupid argument to have.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Oh, I have no doubt that unvaccinated people are sick & dying because the vaccinated are brewing more deadly strains while they still have circulating antibodies to keep them alive. But, just know, the vaccinated are not making many neutralizing antibodies with these boosters.

Israel...the most vaccinated country in the world...

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Xtrozero
For the old and high risk not getting too sick if they get it is like life or death to them.

I understand that. It's like that with the flu.That is the life cycle in action.

But, according to the recent data out of the UK, people under 50 are dying at a higher rate when they are fully vaccinated. THAT is unacceptable. And they want children to get these vaccines!

The only ones breezing through is the curious group they label 'Unlinked.' Shady AF.

You do not want to look at the details though.

When you look at lets say Israel 70% of the population is vaxxed, but that 70% is also avg age 65. The 30% unvaxxed is mainly young people. I'm sure it is the same in UK in the demographics of the vaxx to unvaxx.

Israel has more overall vaxxed people in the hospital than unvaxxed, so do you think that is because the vaccines are not working or maybe its because of the age differences of the two groups and the percentages are much different?

We are trying to compare a 65 year-old to a 20 year-old here in who might need the hospital.

BUT the one area you do not want to see is even with a higher over all number for those vaxxed, the ratio per 100,000 is still lower with the vaxxed since they are 70% of the population.

This is even more profound in the group with the lower ratio is also the high risk group comparted to the other non-vaxxed that most are young people.

So in the end less older people who are vaxxed are going to the hospital per 100,000 than even the younger people not vaxxed.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Oh, I have no doubt that unvaccinated people are sick & dying because the vaccinated are brewing more deadly strains...

That is a 100% untrue statement....


There are 6 main strains of COVID and they came about before the vaccines. Two around the time vaccines just barely started like the Delta one. 3 of the 6 are basically dead in the water to include the L strain that started it all off from China.

So today we are dealing with 3 variants that were here before mass vaccinations, and now with like 4 billion people vaccinated we still have 3 variants,

Is this something you just cant see or do not want to see.

a reply to: Xtrozero

There are no old people in places with low vaccination rates, using Ivermectin, and kicking Covid's butt.

Gotcha.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

There are no old people in places with low vaccination rates, using Ivermectin, and kicking Covid's butt.

Gotcha.

We are not talking about Ivermectin, we are talking about the vaccines...

Ivermectin is looking more promising everyday, but we are not there yet to definitely say one way or the other.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The variants have their own mutations now. Just look at the mutations since the vaccinations started.



It's not worth arguing though. Like you said, it would be sad for you to think that people you trust might be doing you harm so you won't think that way.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

The variants have their own mutations now. Just look at the mutations since the vaccinations started.

That is like saying two humans are not 100% exactly the same analyzing at the genome level... What matters is the main variants and there is only 6 with 3 active.

It's not worth arguing though. Like you said, it would be sad for you to think that people you trust might be doing you harm so you won't think that way.

That isn't what I said.

I said it would be a sad life if you thought everyone around you was out to get you. And then I used the example of 10,000s of dedicated researchers/doctors all doing their life's work with some intent to kill everyone.

It just doesn't make sense... And it doesn't make sense that for some reason you know more about the possibilities of their life's work good or bad than they do. We are talking 10,000s of people here and you want to cherry pick a few people making money off your hits to their site to form your beliefs in it all.

a reply to: Xtrozero

We need to be talking about Ivermectin. I am sick of only talking about these crappy vaccines. Dr. Pierre Kory testifies to the Senate on the success he's had with Ivermectin. Now, he has this to say:



I wonder if his sources are right. I mean...why wouldn't they try it after his compelling testimony?

Why do so many of the old farts in Congress seem to recover no problem? is Ivermectin their treatment of choice?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

The variants have their own mutations now. Just look at the mutations since the vaccinations started.

That is like saying two humans are not 100% exactly the same analyzing at the genome level... What matters is the main variants and there is only 6 with 3 active.

Only some variants matter. Gotcha. 🙄

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

We need to be talking about Ivermectin. I am sick of only talking about these crappy vaccines. Dr. Pierre Kory testifies to the Senate on the success he's had with Ivermectin. Now, he has this to say:

I wonder if his sources are right. I mean...why wouldn't they try it after his compelling testimony?

Why do so many of the old farts in Congress seem to recover no problem? is Ivermectin their treatment of choice?

Man I hope it does work as they seem to say. There is like 5 major studies going on right now since like Mayish, so hopefully that spells well for it.

I did an OP on this a few days ago, very interesting, watch the first 15 - 20 mins or so if you can't watch 45 mins as the second part they really slam the FDA on the drug Aducanumab and you might not be interested in that part. But they go into a lot of detail about drugs in general and how studies work or don't work.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Only some variants matter. Gotcha. 🙄

That is very true.... How far does a virus mutate until the body doesn't recognize it anymore as the older virus to deal with it. There is like 1600 subvariants that the body has no problem in recognizing with the immunities it already has from either the vaccine or the virus itself.

When you get a huge jump in a variant them you can have trouble. Looking at your chart you had 2 jumps in Dec 2019, 2 more in Jan 2020, 1 more in Feb 2020... Your chart ends Apr 2020, so when did the vaccine come out again?

We are still dealing with 3 of those in Aug 2021, so your point that the vaccine increases variants is 100% false, and we could even suggest it has reduced them since we have not seen any new "big" jumps.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Only some variants matter. Gotcha. 🙄

That is very true.... How far does a virus mutate until the body doesn't recognize it anymore as the older virus to deal with it.

People who recovered from SARS in 2003 have very good immunity to SARS-Cov-2. They are about 20% different.

The spike protein of the Delta virus is .03% different than the original spike protein. Those vaccinated with the original spike protein are not immune to Delta. People with natural immunity have immunity to the entire virus...not just the protein spike.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

People who recovered from SARS in 2003 have very good immunity to SARS-Cov-2. They are about 20% different.

The spike protein of the Delta virus is .003% different than the original spike protein. Those vaccinated with the original spike protein are not immune to Delta. People with natural immunity have immunity to the entire virus...not just the protein spike.

I can't say I agree with you, but don't you think vaccine up front with natural immunity following is the best course of action? To prime the pump so to speak for the old and high risk is extremely important, we will all get COVID at some point but by then it will be like a common cold to us, and that is where we want to end up with it.

a reply to: andy06shake

we probably should hold off on speculation about the effects of COVID 19 and Afghanistan until further information is gleaned and the veracity of such can be established.

What speculation? I am asking a question. One you admit to being unable to answer and yet you don't seem to want it asked.

perhaps you should simply call it what it is that being Coronavirus.

So you're saying it's the same as a cold? Many colds are also coronaviruses.

"Coronavirus" is a class of viruses.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xtrozero

Also hasn't Afghanistan been in lockdown for 20 years? There are many people who do not understand that the whole world could go to sh!t tomorrow and life would not change in anyway for a good number of people while the rest of us burn.

So they do have their own version of a lockdown then? Thanks, that was what I was asking.

TheRedneck