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You ignored the epidemiological studies which specifically show masks reducing viral infections. And the clinical studies.
Bolding mine.
Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.
If they trap any aerosols, they must trap viral particles within the aerosols. Nobody claims masks prevent all viral emissions. Exposure to a reduced viral load is associated with reduced chance of contracting Covid and reduced severity of symptoms.
Yet you conspicuously fail to cite any surgeons attributing extended mask wearing to lack of concentration. As I said, many (including dentists) routinely wear them for much longer without harm to themselves or their patients.
Implying you're a scientist
You were unable to quote me saying that because, as I showed you (with quotation), that has never been my stance.
If somebody believed everyone was infected - sure, they would see no point in anyone wearing masks. But nobody believes that.
Many infectious diseases (including Covid-19) can be spread before symptoms are apparent, and also by asymptomatic carriers. So it's safest for everyone to take what sensible precautions they can if they don't wish to inadvertently spread it. Rocket science?
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
Question - If a State Lifts it's Illegal Mask Mandate , then Why would anyone in that State STILL Wear a Mask in Public ?
Answer - Because the State and MSM have Conditioned them to Continue to FEAR being Exposed to Covid-19 .
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: IndieA
US states most sympathetic to socialist and communist seem to have the toughest restrictions.
...and the most problem with controlling the virus...
TheRedneck
originally posted by: TheRedneck
You are claiming asymptomatic spread, not symptomatic spread.
Our data show that asymptomatic carriers infect on average the same number of people as symptomatic individuals.
In this base case, 59% of all transmission came from asymptomatic transmission, comprising 35% from presymptomatic individuals and 24% from individuals who never develop symptoms. Under a broad range of values for each of these assumptions, at least 59% of SARS-CoV-2 infections was estimated to have originated from individuals with infection but without symptoms.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Are you a surgeon? If not, how do you know when they remove their masks?
originally posted by: TheRedneck
I am basing my statement on the words of my heart surgeon, cardiologist, and primary care physician (none of which I have ever seen in a face mask... I assume my heart surgeon wore one during the operation, though).
originally posted by: TheRedneck
I implied nothing.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
So, let me ask for clarification... are you stating that you believe masks should be worn by people based on medical ability to do so...
originally posted by: TheRedneck
...or based on infection?
originally posted by: TheRedneck
That is the crux of my overall argument: since it is not possible for everyone to wear a mask, why is it needed for people without symptoms to wear one and place themselves at greater risk of a symptomatic illness that might require hospitalization?
originally posted by: TheRedneck
My admission of potential attenuation of viral spread above was predicated specifically on proper and universal mask usage and disposal. Yet, such a requirement is simply not possible, because some people will have medical conditions that prevent face mask wearing (like me), and others will wear and/or dispose of them improperly.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Let me ask you: when you take off a mask, do you place it in a medically approved container that prevents environmental contamination for future incineration, or do you place it in an autoclave immediately? If not, if you throw it in the trash, on the ground, or stuff it in your pocket to use later, you are not properly disposing of the mask.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Please name one time when people were required to wear face masks because of a cold going around. Please name one time the same happened over an influenza virus? Both are known to be contagious, and some influenza viruses can be just as deadly as the Chinese virus.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
But no one has ever suggested that people all wear face masks because of any other disease than this one.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
At the same time, manufacturers of face masks have made a fortune....
The evolutionary advantage of spreading from individuals before they're laid low, and before they know they have it, is obvious. Spreaders who remain asymptomatic are Covid's best friend.
So your statement, "surgeons rarely wear a mask more than two hours at a time, as longer use can and has led to reports of a difficulty in concentration" was based upon the words of your heart surgeon who you assume wore a mask when operating on you? Can you see the problem there?
You said, "I'm not going to argue terminology with a layman" when I baulked at your statement "correlation must be causal in nature ". So you are a layman but you're not going to argue with another layman?
If you know you're infected, it would be irresponsible to be in public, with or without a mask. You would self isolate.
Because if they are presymptomatic or asymptomatic they will spread the disease.
Because a few people are unable to take a measure to reduce infections it does not follow that all people should abandon that measure.
It goes in a pocket until I get home, when it goes in the washing machine. Given what we know about how fragile the virus is ex vivo, I suspect leaving the mask in sunlight for a few hours might disinfect it.
I don't personally know anyone who died of flu or the common cold. I know several who have died of COVID-19 and several others suffering serious and long term illness from it. Many hospitals have been, and many still are, overwhelmed with sick and dying Covid-19 patients.
Are you saying therefore nobody should, even though it saves lives? The use of surgical masks was made mandatory at Bangkok Airport during the SARS-CoV-1 outbreak.
So has Jeff Bezos. It's galling but irrelevant.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Normally I would post a link and excerpt... but in this case I see that you have already made up your mind so I won't waste that time. If you actually do have any curiosity about the veracity of your statements, it shouldn't be hard to find. I believe it came from the CDC.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Whether I know he had a mask on or not takes a back seat...
originally posted by: TheRedneck
I think my meaning was quite clear.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Incidentally, this debate started with my statement that mask use for the general public is a relatively new concept... but social distancing has been practiced since long before I was born.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
The human race, speaking of evolution, has survived and thrived to the point of conquering every area on the damn planet by doing that... by not wearing masks.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
Do you not see how contradictory that is? If it is so fragile that it is no problem on a face mask, it is also so fragile that it will be neutralized almost instantly under sunlight.
...experiments demonstrated virus inactivation times of about 10-20 minutes.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
I know of no hospitals in the US which have been overwhelmed.
Overwhelmed hospitals are converting chapels, cafeterias, waiting rooms, hallways, even a parking garage into patient treatment areas. Staff members are desperately calling around to other medical centers in search of open beds. Fatigue and frustration are setting in among front-line workers.
Conditions inside the nation’s hospitals are deteriorating by the day as the coronavirus rages across the U.S. at an unrelenting pace and the confirmed death toll surpasses 250,000.
“We are depressed, disheartened and tired to the bone,” said Alison Johnson, director of critical care at Johnson City Medical Center in Tennessee, adding that she drives to and from work some days in tears.
In Birmingham, Ala., Kierstin Kennedy says, “in some ways, it feels like you’re in a war zone or a Third World country.” Kennedy is chief of hospital medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham Hospital, where 98 percent of ICU beds are filled with COVID patients. “Things are stretched so thin,” she adds. At these facilities and many other hospitals across the country right now, patients are not getting the care that doctors and nurses want to provide because the current COVID surge means staffers are stretched among more and sicker patients. As of January 25, California’s ICUs were at an average of 90 percent occupancy for the entire state. In Texas, the average was 92 percent. In Alabama, it was 95 percent.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
We're talking about a disease which has killed only somewhat more this past year than the traditional flu season normally kills.
The Lancet
We found that the in-hospital mortality for COVID-19 was nearly three-times higher than for seasonal influenza, with an age-standardised mortality ratio of 2·82. In addition, patients with COVID-19 were twice as likely to receive invasive mechanical ventilation, and COVID-19 patients hospitalised in the ICU stayed nearly twice as long as those with influenza. Of note, the 2018–19 period had the highest case-fatality rate for seasonal influenza in France within the past 5 years (12 300 deaths, including 8100 directly attributable to influenza).13 Therefore, the excess mortality observed for COVID-19 was not the result of an influenza season that was less severe than usual.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
The survival rate, even before death numbers from the Chinese virus are adjusted down as they are being now...
You again failed to cite those reports.
Even that statement was incorrect. Mask-wearing ordinances were around long before you were born, for example, during the 1918 flu pandemic (mostly In western states).
Japan has an even longer history of mask wearing, primarily to prevent spreading one’s own germs or sickness in public places.
The survival of the human race is not threatened. The wellbeing of individuals is.
Like other coronaviruses, it is not 'neutralized almost instantly under sunlight'. Rather, as I said, it doesn't survive long outside the body in bright sunlight.
Only because you're determined not to know.
The last flu pandemic was 2009
Far fewer are hospitalized by flu, but of those that are:
They're mostly being adjusted up.
originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: IndieA
US states most sympathetic to socialist and communist seem to have the toughest restrictions.
...and the most problem with controlling the virus...
TheRedneck
You assume that everyone could be infected because your eyeballs ears nose mouth and skin are unable to detect if and when a person is infected specifically with Corona Virus.
If you or anyone else became infected if you were to be using a mask properly this would reduce the spread.
Also the idea the removing a mask off your face "releases" all the built up viral particles instantly the moment you take a mask off is absurd, your mask is part of you environment too nothing happens in a vacuum.
Of course they will have viral particles but also what kills the virus UV LIGHT, which most of us are surrounded by on the regs that that's one caveat we have going for us. Virus trapped on the mask will certainly be dying almost the second UV rays hit them. Yes you need more powerful sustained UV blasts to destroy all the viral beasties but hey some UV is better than none and it will help.
If you think of a mask as a tool to help you through a pandemic where people are dying you'll use it properly but if you think it's bunk and are just trying to get through your day how you want without thinking about any others you won't respect the mask and it's utility.
I kid I kid
but for real saying mask wearing is bad because of a slight physiological change that the body COMPENSATES for is like saying picking up some weight will put pressure on your joints, increase your heart rate, and break muscle fiber, and they're all gonna act differently for a time while you carry that weight...so no more lifting anyone cuz it's bad, change is bad...bad bad bad.
The human body is resilient and if you have issues with oxygen levels perhaps there's things you can do to help that out, not ask that everyone put themselves at risk by removing mask rules.
"You need to be at least 10% smarter than the machine you're using in order to use it correctly."
I dont want to get sick as to not infect others