Lightening and the sound barrier?

Has anyone ever theorized or studied the chances thunder is lightening breaking the sound barrier?

It makes a lot of sense for some reason. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time ruling it out. This would be pretty Google and random thought stage.

What am I missing so simple that would rule it out aside from the current model and theory. I would imagine it's been reproduced and proven. I feel like I shouldn't have to Google for a random thought like this that should be known. I understand the current theory or model but still.

a reply to: randomthoughts12

Thunder is the rapid thermal expansion/contraction of the air surrounding a lightening strike.

a reply to: randomthoughts12

Huh? Thunder is a product of lightning. Lightning absolutely breaks the sound barrier. The crack you hear is from the lightning, and the shockwave associated with the ionized air around the bolt of lightning. The lightning bolts create a explosive change in the pressure and temperature of the air around the electrical charge, which creates a sonic boom. The amount of energy exchange is mammoth, on the order of millions of volts. Moisture in the air is instantly vaporized by these electrical charges.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand here for you, but the short answer is "NO, thunder does not travel faster than the speed of sound"...but it IS the speed of sound which makes thunder what it is.

Hopefully this helps you.

ETA- Clarification...the explosive detonation of moisture in the air creates an impulse of air which is moving faster than sound, and therefore creates a pressure wave which is known as the 'sound barrier', hence the 'sonic boom'.

Lightning is seen at the speed of light. Thunder is heard at the speed of sound. Start counting seconds at the lightning flash then stop when the thunder is heard. Divide this by five to get roughly the nearest distance in miles that it occurred to you. If the rain or clouds are not allowing you to see the lightning, get an AM radio and tune it off the stations. The loud pop that is heard on the radio is at the same time as the lightning. If it is closer than 10 miles, get out of the pool, lake or other water and away from large metal objects. If closer than 5 miles, get indoors.

Lightning expands the air by heating it with electricity. This leaves a small but long vacuum in the atmosphere. Thunder is the sound of the air refilling this vacuum.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

When I was working as a surveyor in Wy. (summer job) we used to have a 10 second rule. We'd have to put our elevation rods down if lightning got within 10 seconds of where we were (Some of those rods stick up 15-20 feet in the air, and are capped with brass tops).

And yes, we used the AM radio trick a lot, because we'd get a lot of weird OTC (out of cloud) lightning, which could strike for miles. That stuff was scary because it wasn't big and thick like the major thunderstorms, but rather thin and spindly, but it still packed a deadly punch! It could be clear skies above us, with a storm 10 miles off, and lightning would strike.

To this day, I'm still afraid to raise any kind of a mast in the air if there's a storm even on the horizon. Lightning is some really weird stuff!!!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
What is the AM radio trick?

Thanks for sharing.

originally posted by: montybd
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
What is the AM radio trick?

Thanks for sharing.

If you turn on your AM radio, even if it's not tuned to a station, you will hear lightning crackle across the radio as static. If the lightning is in the opposite direction of the radio signal, then about anything less than 10 seconds is a risk. If the lightning is in the same direction as the radio signal then you can double, to 20 seconds. It's not exact, but in arid places where you get a lot of out-of-cloud lightning, it's a pretty good indicator. The "seconds" are the time between when the radio crackles and you hear the thunder.

A lot of times, in the deserts, you can't even see the lightning. It's not like down south with the heavy moist air where lightning bolts are these huge flashes. I don't know the meteorological term for it, but we used to call it "spider lightning". The stuff can be pretty scary.

a reply to: randomthoughts12

The initial stroke, creating a conductive channel, propagates at about 60 miles per second. The return stoke, the one that is visible, is about a thousand times faster reaching up to 1/3 seed of light.

a reply to: myselfaswell Has that been proven and tested? Because as I said I knew that is the model. Can it correlate in anyway?

a reply to: FlyingclaydiskSo there is some correlation. I just without researching felt there could be some correlation. Obviously some aspect of lightening should break the sound barrier as I would think lightening is closer to the speed of light.

These are all random thoughts. I mean is it only one state of matter break the sound barrier?

Better question might be can plasma or a liquid break the sound barrier or only a solid?

a reply to: beyondknowledgeThanks that adds to my brain minus researching. Still sounds a lot like these concept correlate or are connected to the sound barrier in some way.

Or is this mechanism possibly related to the mechanism of breaking the sound barrier. As breaking the sound barrier has to do with displacement or a similiar filling or unfilling of the space?

a reply to: FlyingclaydiskI live in Florida and have seen and learned some pretty neat things. I can predict the first lightning strike of a storm within 15 minutes very often.

I definatly know the sound and mile rules. My father was a Nuke and master electrician and I know a ton about electricity. However im trying to just think outside the box a bit off a random thought.

a reply to: moebius
This is exactly what brought this random thought to mind. Can electricity or plasma break the sound barrier.

Yes, lightning is fast. But its not really a "thing". Light doesnt "break the sound barrier" with a sonic boom for the same reason.

a reply to: randomthoughts12

The visible part of a sonic boom is actually air that becomes compressed by sound waves.

Thunder that the storm makes, produces a sonic boom, which is caused by lightning, thus forcing the air to move faster than the sound barrier which is around 343mps.

www.reference.com...
Acourding to this lightning travels at 200,000 mph.