Recommended reading or viewing

Hello all. I would say I have an above average grasp of history, but I know only little of ideologies and the history behind them. I think the best approach to learn about the pros and cons of these ideas, is to learn how they came about and how they were used.

My generation is full of people that always argue with me about why socialism, or even communism, is the greatest thing ever. I strongly disagree, but I only know the basics but I would like to learn more. Particularly the historical side of things. I can't debate these people too well because I don't know the facts and I don't know a lot of the history behind these ideologies. That goes for both economic systems or political ideologies. This stuff gets real complex and it also has a lot of bias, so it's hard to find a decent starting point.

An argument I hear all the time is that the USSR wasn't truly socialist or communist. I think these people are in denial, but I need more knowledge. I also hear about how Nordic countries are socialist, but I know that isn't exactly true.

So with that said, would you kindly recommend some good videos, documentaries, or books I can read? I hear Gulag Archipelago or The Prince are good reads.

If you want to know what Communism is about, read Das Kapital. A dull series of volumes it has to be said but it outlines Marxism. It used to be widely avaliable online for free in almost any language but recently in an ironic twist a lot of that was hit by copyright from publishing houses.

Nordic countries aren’t socialists. They are capitalist countries with extensive welfare states.

Socialism is a socio-economic system wherein the means of production are collectively owned as opposed to privately owned. What form that takes is open to interpretation but in real life practice it is often state control with centralised planning. That’s not the only method though. Union syndicates and autonomous workers’ cooperatives are commonly proposed alternatives.

Communism is a utopian idealised future society where class division, the state, and private property (among other divisions) have been abolished and everyone works together without coercion towards the collective betterment of everyone. This has never been achieved and likely never will. Socialist countries ruled by Communist Parties are ostensibly working towards this as a goal.

Most “socialists” you meet these days aren’t socialist at all and are in fact neoliberal corporatists playing pretend. Probably because they never read the literature and convinced themselves that billionaires and their privately-owned corporations ruling society is actually worker control of the means of production in the greatest act of doublethink i can recall.

My two recommendations are:

George Orwell's 1984, and seek out some documentary material with comments or interview wherein he expounds a bit.

My second recommendation would be to view the documentary film Idiocracy.

originally posted by: that1lurker
My generation is full of people that always argue with me about why socialism, or even communism, is the greatest thing ever. I strongly disagree

I've lived under both. When your a dirt poor peasant or laborer, both are actually pretty sweet. In fact up until you hit mid-middle class both are good forms of governance.

In my case the communist government that I was living under was incompetent. Most of the problems that we had were due to people trying to run a country the same way that they ran the revolution. Rather than because of any inherent problems with communism. Most people didn't have their land or property seized because most people didn't have any land or property to seize.

Absolutely no book that focuses on ideology will help you to understand my experience of communism of socialism simply because most communist or socialist governments "try" to adhere to an ideology but usually find that real life isn't that simple. Having an ideology is nice, but most of the time they can't really be put into practice.

originally posted by: Ohanka

Nordic countries aren’t socialists. They are capitalist countries with extensive welfare states.

That's actually a pretty good description of 80% of socialism. Ensuring that the basic needs of the people are met.

My experience is that your average American has been raised to think of Socialism as being this weird hybrid of Marxism and fascism. Most of Europe is socialist.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: Ohanka

Nordic countries aren’t socialists. They are capitalist countries with extensive welfare states.

That's actually a pretty good description of 80% of socialism. Ensuring that the basic needs of the people are met.

My experience is that your average American has been raised to think of Socialism as being this weird hybrid of Marxism and fascism. Most of Europe is socialist.

There isn’t one country in Europe with a socialist economy. Though transnistria might be at a stretch. They are all built upon capitalism (of varying degrees of regulation) and may or may not have a welfare state. Property is privately owned (barring state housing) and most enterprises are privately owned, excluding some state-owned industries in some countries, but even America has some state-owned enterprises.

If the existence of a welfare state, market regulation and state-owned corporations made you a socialist country, that would mean Imperial Germany was a socialist country. Next to nobody would claim that. Least of all Otto Von Bismarck.

Written by people who have escaped 'communism' in various places. Call it whatever you want, but the end result is the same. People here will argue about theories and terminolgy, but those that lived it are the best resource.

You can read the book or watch the series. It is very comprehensive from a historical standpoint, but also very thoroughly researched and heavily referenced.

www.specterofcommunism.org...

Brief Introduction
Communism is neither a trend of thought, nor a doctrine, nor a failed attempt at a new way of ordering human affairs. Instead, it should be understood as a devil — an evil specter forged by hate, degeneracy, and other elemental forces in the universe.

Though the Communist Regimes of Eastern Europe have disintegrated, the specter of communism has not disappeared. On the contrary, this evil specter is already ruling our world, and humanity must not harbor a mistaken sense of optimism. Communist China has replaced the Soviet Union as the primary threat to the free world, building up its strength in a bid for global hegemony. Europe embraces socialism, and Africa and Latin America are enveloped in communist influence. Even the United States — the leader of the free world — has fallen prey to communism and its variants. This is the startling reality humankind faces.

HOW THE SPECTER OF COMMUNISM IS RULING OUR WORLD is a must-read for every freedom-loving individual. The book reveals the ways in which the communist specter has burrowed into the minds of today’s people. It charts communism’s global advance and explains how this specter has embedded itself in nearly every facet of today’s society — from education to the judicial system — and the path humanity must take to escape its grip.

a reply to: Ohanka

You've muddled up the communist manifesto with the the various works that Marx wrote.

The final variations of the manifesto weren't even Marx's works.

Communism in short is where capitalism has reached a point of accumulation and consolidation where capital in all forms becomes overly abundant and everyone has access to literally everything. Where, states, money, and class become useless.

a reply to: that1lurker

As far as empirical arguments go, it’s easy to point out historical examples where socialism and capitalism grew beside each other, like East and West Germany, or North and South Korea, and ask which of the two they’d rather live in.

One could also go find the vast list of failed states with references to socialism in their constitution and do the same.

a reply to: Halfswede

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.