Working at Goldman Sachs Worse than Foster Care...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

Nobody at the end of life wished they worked more hours.. quite the opposite.
We Americans equate insane hours and decent pay to a good life. We have our priorities wrong.

Having grown up mostly in Europe I understand what living a life truly means, and it ain’t working more!
Eat slower, spend more time with family, get outside, buy the flowers, walk your dog.

I am by no means saying be lazy, but a 40 hr work week should NOT be considered lazy.

It is definitely a balance. Unfortunately, many people don't realize it until it is too late. They spend their lives working instead of enjoying life. With that said, I do think some people truly enjoy their work more than their leisure time. For many people, especially in certain careers / industries that have a sort of prestige or exclusivity about them, people often identify or base their self worth around their work.

I was on that fast track and figured out I didn't want it bad enough and wasn't willing to make the personal sacrifices. I wanted to be able to spend time with my significant other as opposed to eventually getting divorced. Take vacations. Have hobbies. Enjoy my weekends. I wanted to be able to spend time with my kids.

With that said, when you are just starting out you have to expect there is going to be some hazing and long hours. I know the work life of these kids suck, but at the same time, it is nothing new. It was like that when I came out of college and that was 25 years ago. We didn't b*tch about it. Just put your nose to the grind stone.

40 hours a week isn't lazy. However, no one who is high performing or has any real responsibility works 40 hours a week. I've long wished four day work weeks were standard though. I'd rather grind it out for 3 or 4 days for 12-15 hour days non stop and have a longer weekend imho.

Trying to work up sympathy for a Wall Street Analyst working for Goldman Sachs ...

Trying ...

Trying ...

Nope, can't do it. Someone that smart could have been a farmer, or a forest ranger, or own a plant nursery.
Maybe with the right qualifications a cruise ship gigolo or a Chippendale's dancer.

But, I guess we all make bad decisions in life.

The good news is, life isn't over yet. Try something different.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

I can imagine that conversation.....

Mr A... "I got a new job working for the worst people in the world...those alien-lizard vampire squid people".

Mr B..."What's it like?".

Mr A..."They're mean".

Mr B. ...

"surprised face"

a reply to: RazorV66

Good move friend.. I bailed on the nazi post office years ago and never cared to look back... That place is a freaking mess

a reply to: Edumakated

you give what you're paid for. We ain't baby boomers, we have serious competition to face. The luxury of america's dominance is a thing of the past.. boomers trashed any chance of that

a reply to: Infinitis


Hmm... Generalize Much ? That is an Obvious Value Judgement . Maybe THINK it Through.......

a reply to: Edumakated

Isn't this just a practical lesson in Supply and Demand?

People are willing to live the life to make the money.

I guess you could equally argue its a 'Survival of the Fittest' story.

Those that get in the club are bonded by the experience.

The questions are, I think, more around what are the survivors fit for, and what are they bonded to?

To my mind niether question has a pleasent answer, and you can easily figure why these people are both arrogant and isolated.

But I protested and partied my way through college and now I have to work!?
No wonder I was protesting capitalism.
I want my UBI!

originally posted by: Doxanoxa
a reply to: Edumakated

Isn't this just a practical lesson in Supply and Demand?

People are willing to live the life to make the money.

I guess you could equally argue its a 'Survival of the Fittest' story.

Those that get in the club are bonded by the experience.

The questions are, I think, more around what are the survivors fit for, and what are they bonded to?

To my mind niether question has a pleasent answer, and you can easily figure why these people are both arrogant and isolated.

This is exactly what is going on... supply and demand. If you won't do it, there are 1000 other people chomping at the bit for the opportunity. There is also a bit of the "I did it, you need to do it too" culture as well. Those that make it through and have the stamina to rise and perform are highly compensated. You will be making millions in your 30s.

What I think happens though too is some people do question if the sacrifice is worth it. I don't need to make millions to be happy. I rather have more leisure time to spend with family. This becomes even more evident as I get older.

No one is ever on their death bed wishing they would have attended one more meeting at work or got just one more promotion. At least no one sane is. You are reflecting on seeing your kid's first day at school. The day they learned to ride a bike. That day they fell and you comforted them. Or the times you helped them with homework. The time you taught your son how to shave or daughter how to put on lipstick. The vacations, etc. You miss a lot this sh*t with these high flying careers as you are at work instead.

I guess I just don't get it. I have a some clients who are in their 30s / 40s and multi-millionaires. Liquid. I mean worth like 7 to 10 million. They are still grinding and working away. I don't get it. I would have quit and just be enjoying life on my terms. These aren't people who are changing the world either... just middle management cogs.

The thing that irks me is when I'm applying for a new job, and despite having more than enough experience and time out into my choice career field the employers will almost always want to start me out at the bottom.

On more than one occasion I've done interviews where they say something similar to "Well, you have all the experience we are looking for how does this [entry level position that I didn't apply for] sound? It starts at [$10-$15 less than what I usually make]?"

I hate when they want me to start all over from the bottom. The last job I had as the one and only automation technician, where I reported directly to the head honcho of the facility, the electrician supervisor who wasn't even an electrician tried to tell me to shadow an union electrician they had contracted as a full time employee. The guy had been an electrician longer than I had been alive, didn't know basic troubleshooting, and screwed up more things than he fixed.

Then they had the nerve to tell me I need to learn how to use a multimeter. I had to out them in their place and tell them that they weren't my supervisors and that they were supposed to be asking my permission before touching any drives or PLCs. That I was essentially my own supervisor, and that I reported directly to the guy who runs the show for all the facilities in the city.

It's even better when they tell me they love all the experience, knowledge, and training I've had, but they are really looking for someone with a degree.

I have found that HR and the other people involved in the hiring process usually have no idea what they need vs what they want. Which always bites them in the ass, because they want someone who knows just enough to be dangerous, is "trainable," and fits the demographics they are looking for so they can say "Look how awesome we are! We hire x amount of this kind of people!" Then, the person they hire usually quits, because they don't know what they are doing, there really is no training, and the company ends up in a cycle of high turnover.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

You nailed it.
HR keeps dragging in people with either no clue, or work ethic but look good on paper.

Seagull nailed it as well.
I personally use the "Sig Hanson meme Grind It Out" daily!! LOL!! I find it inspirational while new people around me quit
like shocked bunnies. What we do is difficult, physically demanding, generally insane for OK bucks in my area.

The number of people who don't actually want to work at work is ridiculously high.
Besides building character, a tough job gives you a great perspective for when you get a better job. You appreciate it much more. Of course you'd have to stick it out more than just making it till lunch time & quitting!
One guys personal "best" was showing up & "fake fainting" 10 minutes in.

Dude didn't even make it past the lunchroom!!!
It was impressive.

a reply to: Edumakated

I was on that fast track and figured out I didn't want it bad enough and wasn't willing to make the personal sacrifices. I wanted to be able to spend time with my significant other as opposed to eventually getting divorced. Take vacations. Have hobbies. Enjoy my weekends. I wanted to be able to spend time with my kids.

I worked with a couple, very top, very high powered. They saw each other for two weeks (total) one year.
Can you imagine being married and only physically seeing your spouse for two weeks. I would say at that point are you really married. Maybe for some that is better than seeing each other all the time...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

I was on that fast track and figured out I didn't want it bad enough and wasn't willing to make the personal sacrifices. I wanted to be able to spend time with my significant other as opposed to eventually getting divorced. Take vacations. Have hobbies. Enjoy my weekends. I wanted to be able to spend time with my kids.

I worked with a couple, very top, very high powered. They saw each other for two weeks (total) one year.
Can you imagine being married and only physically seeing your spouse for two weeks. I would say at that point are you really married. Maybe for some that is better than seeing each other all the time...

That happened to me.

The first two years of my marriage, I think I was at home maybe 10 weeks total over 2 years. I pretty much traveled for work Monday thru Thursday or Friday every week. In fact, the longest period I was at home during that 2 years was a few weeks after 9/11 when there was practically no business travel. After that I basically traveled every single week until I quit two years later.

It was a large reason why I said this isn't for me. I'd get home on a Thursday or Friday. Hope to spend some time with my wife. I'd get an email about something and next thing you know, I have to spend most or all of my Saturday working. Maybe Sunday. Pack up and then travel Monday morning.

That sh*t gets old real quick. I enjoyed the work, but at the end of the day I rather enjoy my life more.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Assassin82
While in the service I spent a lot of time overseas in a lot of different places. My deployments were more like luxurious TDY’s. One of the perks of being aircrew in the Air Force. While exploring the world abroad, I discovered just how awful the American workplace is for the American worker. This 40 hour a week, 5 days a week for 52 weeks a year crap is a hot pile of garbage.

I’m a strong advocate for more humane working conditions for Americans. We’ve got one life to live and it shouldn’t be slaving away for a company that will let you go at the turn of a dime to meet their ever changing needs. The mental health of this country is crumbling and our grind it out work ethic is a big reason why. With that said...if you accept a job you have got to know exactly what it entails and what you’re expected to do. And accepting that job whether you like it or not is on you. We are not void of personal responsibility no matter what your workforce demographic.

I do think culturally Americans lost sight of what is important. I think it is a function of our capitalist nature. You hustle hard for an opportunity to move up. Those willing to work the hardest win. Companies can milk this to their advantage but it also what makes America and American companies so successful.

It is a balance. I don't know anyone who is successful who works a 40 hour week. If you want to make good money, you have to grind it out. However, you need that balance. I've done pretty well, by most standards. I could probably be doing better but I don't think I am willing to make the lifestyle sacrifice. The money simply isn't that important to me. Being able to spend more time with family is...

Well quite frankly, it has NOTHING to do with capitalism. At least capitalism gives you the OPTION to work. Look at people who work 80 hours a week or more in China, the Soviet Union, Africa..... for little more than food on the table and many are still hungry and POOR. SLAVE LABOR in many cases.

The USA is still a land of opportunity. Sometimes you sacrifice...your time, your family, your health, your years. It's up to each individual to figure out what they are willing to sacrifice in the name of the almighty dollar. Remember, "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also".

Successful????? SUCCESSFUL??????? What is that? A #load of money in the bank and a mortgage of over a million dollars? Success is in the eye of the beholder my friend and it's different for everyone.

Young attorneys do the same thing. Many of the high paying professions demand a slice of your life. But it's not forever and one can always move on. It is a choice of a lifestyle. Some are thrilled with the opportunity and some realize that it's not their cup of tea. To each their own.

a reply to: Edumakated

I have worked about 27 different jobs since I was 17. My crappiest, lowest paying job was a busboy at $4.25/hr - 4p-11p Fri/Sat/Sun. Best job was as a Graphic Designer making $67k/year. Some jobs I left intentionally and some just evaporated. Never fired. I can tell you this:

IMO TIME is the most valuable currency.

Work with your friends if you can. Work for yourself if you can. NEVER work for a corporation.

a reply to: NightVision

IMO TIME is the most valuable currency.

I'll add to that...
Youthful, healthy, pain free time is the most valuable currency!!!
I totally wasted my 20's working so hard!! One point in my early 20's I had 3 Jobs!!

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: AutomateThis1

You nailed it.
HR keeps dragging in people with either no clue, or work ethic but look good on paper.

Seagull nailed it as well.
I personally use the "Sig Hanson meme Grind It Out" daily!! LOL!! I find it inspirational while new people around me quit
like shocked bunnies. What we do is difficult, physically demanding, generally insane for OK bucks in my area.

The number of people who don't actually want to work at work is ridiculously high.
Besides building character, a tough job gives you a great perspective for when you get a better job. You appreciate it much more. Of course you'd have to stick it out more than just making it till lunch time & quitting!
One guys personal "best" was showing up & "fake fainting" 10 minutes in.

Dude didn't even make it past the lunchroom!!!
It was impressive.

Yep. I've seen dudes come in who were supposed to be trainable, and next I know I catch them doing something incredibly dumb like sticking their fingers somewhere that's about to give them cardiac arrest.

Testing AC on the DC setting saying "I think the meter is messed up the numbers keep changing."

That's not even the worst of it lol.

But yeah. I had a chance to go do some commercial fishing once, but I had just got out of the Navy and I just wanted to relax for a while and think about setting some roots

a reply to: NightVision

That basically sums up how I feel. I worked my way up the ladder multiple times, in multiple careers, consisting of more jobs than I can count. Did a stint in the military, and after working my way into automation realized that my time is worth more.

I'm not going to slave away for decades to maybe get to enjoy life. I'm going to enjoy life on my terms until the day I die.

The way I look at it if I were to oversimplify into the two people thing is that there are two people. Well, more actually.

You got people who are willing to work their entire life for someone else, those who say eff it I'm working for myself, and then those who just complain the entire time about how everything is unfair.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Been there, done that. Back when I was a teenager I wanted to be a world renown chef.

I opened at one restaurant, then biked across town to close another restaurant. Then, on weekends I worked at another restaurant.

By the time I was 20 I was wanting the open my own restaurant, but the guy I was going to go into business with thought he was slick and thought he could pull one over on me. So, I backed out. Man the restaurant business is not fun It's been over a decade and I still feel burned out just thinking about cooking for myself.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
a reply to: NightVision

I'm not going to slave away for decades to maybe get to enjoy life. I'm going to enjoy life on my terms until the day I die.

Couldn't agree more. Sometimes I wonder if my enjoying life now will have consequences later? But then again, I know about 8 wealthy ppl and only one of them is truly happy. what's the point of having tons of money later on if you're too old to enjoy it? Still going back n forth on that one.

Side note: one of those 27 jobs I worked was a doorman at Robert's Western World Bar in downtown Nashville, and the other a night custodian at Brentwood Baptist Church in Franklin, TN. You could say I saw God and the Devil in both jobs!