Where do your rights come from?

originally posted by: Stevenmonet
Simple question right?

Your answer is the basis of my simple hypothesis.

I believe that if your answer is your god/creator you lean towards the right libertarian/conservative.

Thanks for telling me what to think about where my rights come from, but I hate to burst your smug bubble here. How about not painting with such a wide-ass brush?

Edit: To answer, so there isn't some tut-tutter rolling through, your rights are an agreed upon social contract/rules to abide by in the context of communal existence with others. Gods don't have # to do with that.

a reply to: TheRedneck

No less than I expected and thank you for taking the time to clarify your justifications and reasoning behind your ideas/beliefs.

It is a desire for a pure and simple understanding and the shared faith that it can be achieved that makes for such a fun adventure as this.

Now run and explore other potentials as you see fit I have taken enough time from your other projects. Fun though some distractions may be.

a reply to: Stevenmonet

Im not an atheist, im on the fence there.

I follow 3 wee rules in life, or endeavour to anyroad, take what you do not have, have what you cannot take, and never hurt anyone weaker than yourself.

As to right and wrong, those are simply constructs we use in an attempt to justify our actions to our self and others around us.

My morality just like the rest of us is directly linked to how i was brought up, monkey see, monkey do.

I was lucky, or unlucky enough, depending on how one looks at it, to have the luxury of living life on both sides of the proverbial train tracks as child which somewhat allowed a measure of elasticity where most situations arise in which i manage to find myself.

If i do something, its generally because i want to, or i must, and once you end up with family in tow, the want to part kind of goes right out the window.

I never said i was an antsiest, I've just never met the big fellow, or seen much signs of his existence, im certainly not a god, if anything my role in this life is of a father, just not ""the father"".

You stay safe and take it easy.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Stevenmonet
Simple question right?

Your answer is the basis of my simple hypothesis.

I believe that if your answer is your god/creator you lean towards the right libertarian/conservative.

Thanks for telling me what to think about where my rights come from, but I hate to burst your smug bubble here. How about not painting with such a wide-ass brush?

Edit: To answer, so there isn't some tut-tutter rolling through, your rights are an agreed upon social contract/rules to abide by in the context of communal existence with others. Gods don't have # to do with that.

My intention was not to tell anyone what to think about where their rights come from, but how a person answers that question for themselves has helped .e to form a working hypothesis I wished to test.

Painting with a wide brush can be necessary when trying to understand the principal factors/ideas that form our shared reality.

I can relate with what you have shared, and I find your contribution to the discussion to be a valuable opportunity for me to attempt to more clearly explaine my intentions if nothing else.

If as you say gods have nothing to do with rights that are as you put it an agreed upon social contract/rules to abide by in the context of communal existence with others.

Then my hypothesis states you would tend towards the political left. As i define as somone who feels their government/society deserves/needs more control/oversight over their daily activities.

Do you feel this fairly describes you, or do you feel your government/society should have/deserves less oversight/control over your daily acivities?

a reply to: Stevenmonet

Well, I'll still be around for a little while... it's still early for this old retired redneck, and I have cigarettes to roll before I get too active. I simply wanted to mention that if something wasn't clear, it was likely because I had a couple cylinders working on other things. It's hard for me to do much final design work until I get an idea squarely in my head.

TheRedneck

a reply to: andy06shake

There is no right answer here, and there is much to be said for the ability to remain fluid in a situation in flux.

Much like yourself I have personally experienced both sides of the tracks so to speak.

I hope I didn't offend you by implying you were an atheist especially if you see yourself more as agnostic.

After reading through your replies again I am struck by the sense of you an agnostic much more than atheist.

Thanks for all your input. I started this test out assuming I would get far fewer data sets then I have gotten so far, so in that I consider myself lucky/blessed.

I would be a fool to overlook or discount what has been shared here simply because it fails to form a clean data set.

So a sincere thank you and take it safe is a plenty fine spot to leave it for now.

You rock andy06shake. I know we got off to a rocky start in my last thread, but after spending some time engaging with you in honest relation of ideas and beliefs has left we with a warm feeling that has erased any percieved slight from you on my part. I hope the feeling is mutual.

I'd share a nice glass or red with you any time!

a reply to: Stevenmonet

"I have a right to eat, to mate, to defend myself because my existence compels it"

With your prior comment that:

"Personally I think my rights were earned by my ancestors and sanctified by law. If I didn't have language, education, a family and an upbringing I'd have no understanding of laws or rights"

You've already answered that. The hypothetical dog still has a right to eat and defend itself whether somebody put it on paper or not. The fact it's on paper only solidifies said belief. That's probably my best answer without taking pages and getting into culture and societal norms. Laws and rights are usually sanctified due to necessity. Think animal abuse...

Do you feel that your current form of government/society needs/deserves to have more control/oversight over your daily activities?

Yes and no. Ultimately it should be driven by a mandate from the people. Take for instance the laws defining a government's right to snoop on the internet. They are there to protect us from fraud and the likes but without clear oversight you get things like PRISM which had absolutely no public mandate.

Now we just need to figure out if you think of your rights as being your birthright and laws as being unwelcome social constraints on those birthrights. Or if I have completely misunderstood what you are trying to relate.

My rights are a birth right, yet without laws they can be taken away. They go hand in hand if I want to live in a society and not be weary of the bigger tougher guy. Society doesn't replace nature though.

I'll try and elaborate later, I seem right there don't I yet on many issues I'm definitely a lefty

a reply to: TheRedneck

I find my mind works best when my lungs and hands are engaged in the consumption of smoke as well.

I have always had a great respect for people who's creative process is different from my own. I often find myself having a fully formed idea/product/hypothesis in my head, but in such a manner as to leave the details and minutia as expected challenges along the way each with its own multitude of potential alternative solutions.

Because I understand my grande vision I simply start out excited and work my way through the minutia of undecided variables in incerments as they arise.

My brother is more like you, and I have found his way can save errors in time, but it can also leave him in an analysis paralysis if I don't pull him out of the minutia by simply jumping in with both feet then asking for his feedback as the minutia becomes relevant. Often times this means by the time our project has reached a point of potential impass he has likely decided on his strategy and I'm working on some alternatives just in case.

It is also funny how sometimes I'm looking at watts per cm2 per liter per min while is is looking at miliamps per cm2 per liter per minute for example.

So we are both seeing and describing the same system but from different perspectives or with different performance paremeters in mind and expressiing the same concept with different equations.

Creative synergies like that are way more valuable to me then any degree or certificate of completion.

a reply to: Stevenmonet

Smoke good. Redneck like smoke.

Your anecdotes are definitely not unexpected. I am a minutia guy; I tend to sit and just let the details work themselves out in my mind to a point I can no longer hold the data, then I will either write down what I have envisioned or, if the data is sufficient, begin the final design work. Minutia that I left out can be included along the way if simple enough, but oftentimes I find myself again sitting and envisioning again while more minutia is worked out.

As an example: I am presently working on a coil winder. One of my personal projects requires several coils to be wound by hand, and another related one will require even more to be wound. I want some semblance of consistency in the windings, which is difficult to get by hand. So, since I now have an operational 3D printer, I determined to make a coil winder. I developed each mechanical apparatus individually, from a threaded positioner to maintain wire position relative to the form, to a hand crank that incorporates an adjustment for different size forms, to a spool holder that allows for adjustable tension. My task now is to assemble these on a frame.

I have the basic frame laid out in my modeling program, but I was unable to detail every screw hole and attachment slot in my head. So I modeled what I had, and now my mind is working on attachments and screw holes... as I complete envisioning a section, I update my model, study it to locate any missing considerations, and I'm back to envisioning.

My way tends to take longer I have noticed, but it has the advantage of being quite accurate when completed.

Sorry to pull a bit off topic, but I thought you would be interested in the thought process there.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Stevenmonet

It seems clear to me by this point that you feel rights come from society/government since god left us hungry and vulnerable with only society/the government to provide security for the Hungry and vulnerable. Right?

Because we are created hungry and vulnerable, we are a vicious species that seeks to sate that hunger and shelter ourselves from vulnerability. However, our nature doesn't stop being hungry after a big meal. Our vulnerability and hunger extends to the need to amass stuff, wealth, riches, etc., to prevent feeling vulnerable. However, the more wealth we amass, the more vulnerable we are to losing our wealth to wild animals, disease and marauders.

So, we seek power to quell our fears of vulnerability. There is power in numbers, so we congregate and set up rules to protect ourselves and our wealth from each other. We set up punishments, as a deterrent, for those that would break the rules, violating our trust and making us feel vulnerable and leaving us hungry.

Therefore, it's my belief that our "rights" come from social cooperative agreements, which are not necessarily fair, as a social compromise to stave off hunger and vulnerability, relinquishing a certain amount of freedom and wild abandon for a predictable. yet safe, life style.

Government isn't desirable, it's a necessity for life.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I know you couldn't use a fishing lure on a simple jig with 90 degrees of travel relative to your bench with an adjustable drag and simply loop one end of your cable/cord you wish to coil through a hook on your work bench and the spool simply goes on your reel.

That would be too easy.

Ps what kind of redneck has a 3d printer. NVM. I take that back. I've been looking into buying one some day so, you know I'm just jealous.

I would love to see your final design. I'm sure it will be just like you simple yet brilliant ballanced in perfect proportion.

Good luck.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

If I may interject here, I am quite curious about your post.

So, we seek power to quell our fears of vulnerability.

That is quite interesting. My perspective is not rooted in fear nor vulnerability. I recognize, of course, that there are those who can harm me if they so choose, but I do not fear them as much as I am simply cautious around them.

It has been said that everyone is following a logical, efficient method of surviving in the type of world they think they live in. We seem to see our world quite differently. You see fear and vulnerability, while I see capability and power in oneself. It would appear self-evident that this difference in perspective would lead to vastly different ideals on how best to survive. We each think of our world differently so we choose different ideologies for our own survival.

If I may, allow me to present a hypothetical situation to you: You are walking down a city street. The weather is clear; the temperature is moderate. You see an individual walking toward you on the sidewalk. He is a white man, 6'-0" tall, dressed casually if a bit sloppy. He has a full beard and sunglasses on, and his hands are in his pockets. There are not many people around. What are your thoughts?

Mine are: keep one eye on the guy, but he's probably not a problem. Go on about my business. If we make eye contact, I nod in greeting; otherwise I just walk on by.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Stevenmonet

Not accurate enough. Magnetism has the disadvantage of requiring quite close tolerances to provide maximum power.

And yeah, I'll post a pic in Chit Chat when I finish it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Sookiechacha

We are so close to a clean data set that I can taste it. I swear.

You said "Our rights come from social cooperatives"

So we are half way there.

Now tell me do you think your current social cooperative whatever that may be has more authority/control/oversight over your daily activities than you are comfortable giving it, or would you rather it had more authority/control/oversight over your daily activities?

If it has too much in your view then my hypothesis does not accurately describe your belief that rights come from society/government.

If you would be comfortable giving more control/oversight/authority over your daily activities to your social cooperative, then my hypothesis accurately describes your belief that your rights come from your society/government.

a reply to: Stevenmonet

Now tell me do you think your current social cooperative whatever that may be has more authority/control/oversight over your daily activities than you are comfortable giving it, or would you rather it had more authority/control/oversight over your daily activities?

If it has too much in your view then my hypothesis does not accurately describe your belief that rights come from society/government.

It depends. If government wants to provide a college education, which would require personal sacrifice and a strict regime, but promise a richer and freer lifestyle at the end, that's good. But, if it that personal sacrifice and strict regime culminates to brainwashing and slavery, that's not good.

In my opinion, humanity is still working out it's selfish nature, fueled by hunger and vulnerability, and can't be trusted not to create governments that protect the rich and powerful and exploit its huddled masses, rather than boost and empower them.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Wow your answer tells me more than you know how large a radius on your coil? How many turns you going for?

Me thinks somone is playing with amperes circitual law.

Where the heck were you when I was publicly fleshing out my black holes and the nature of the universe post.

magnetic toroidal fields are a b to accurately measure let one create within tight tolerances especially when they are in flux.

If I'm not way off on your intention for that coil heck ya no hand reel and mechanical drag system is going to work on a manual jig to accomplish the tolerances you intend to achieve.

The fact you are trying to build your own vs buying one tells me we are dealing with a coil radius far lower than one inch. Or if you are really crazy/ rave it would be well over a foot.

Usually materials and time are a big chunk of your components commercial cost so the component you would be willing to make on your own is not readily available hence my very small or very large guesses.

Man I'm more interested in the component your are constructings size and ultimate function than the coiler at this point.

PM me whenever you like you have my full attention.

a reply to: Stevenmonet

From me and me alone.

I make my own rights.

I do what I want.

I follow the law if i feel like it.

I break the law when I feel like it.

Rights are just agreements that the majority would agree upon an wouldnt wish unto themselves, while privileges can be granted or taken away anytime.

Gold an Silver rules.

Only god or beast can be completely alone, but misery needs company.


Would belonging to god mean it public an no private ownership, or does public an freedom to ownership ok, so long as the clothes dont own me.

a reply to: Stevenmonet

They come from might, which makes rights.

They can be taken, so fight to death for them.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Stevenmonet

From me and me alone.

I make my own rights.

I do what I want.

I follow the law if i feel like it.

I break the law when I feel like it.

Still a pleb.