The Real Agricultural Revolution and the Evidence to Support it

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Raggedyman

God didn't want sacrifices...

God sacrifices his own son.

That’s right, God didn’t want to sacrifice his own son
Isn’t that the point of the whole gospel
Everything

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Raggedyman

i gave an opinion based on history, not the bible.

No, you made a statement
There are two Gods, a Jewish God and a Christian God, then never explained how or why you reasoned that

Then said there was a pre Babylonian Hebrew God and a post Babylonian Hebrew God but didn’t explain why or where you got that idea from.

I think both these statements are false, both seem to be based on nothing, just made up in context

You are inconsistent.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Raggedyman

I think I have some more thought out replies for us to ponder, but I am at work and using mobile atm, so for now I only have short replies. Just saying, you've made some points I want to inquire about when I can.

Also, another short retort:

God has been the same all throughout.

If that was the case, there wouldn't be an Old and a New Testament.

And they are good thoughts and reasonable statements, unfortunately wrong.
I once pondered exactly the same

The Old Testament were the historical stories of early covenants, laws and teachings given to the Hebrew people, often updated as required

These covenants ended with Jesus, the Christian covenant came in and ended religion after Jesus

The bible is a very large book, theologians have spent millions of hours understanding it, not likely you can pick it up, listen to a person explain something then it all falls in to place
Please feel free to ask questions, nice polite conversation

Effectively, the Old and New Testament doesn’t prove God has changed, only that God loves man so much, God had to show humanity that His love is so sincere He will go to extremes for His creation

People seem to think God is a monster for destroying whole civilisations in the Old Testament, then complain when God doesn’t destroy Isis or the Taliban, why He allowed humanity into WW1 or 2, why He let’s bad things happen now
People will condemn God for doing something or then condemn God for not doing anything

originally posted by: Raggedyman
People seem to think God is a monster for destroying whole civilisations in the Old Testament, then complain when God doesn’t destroy Isis or the Taliban, why He allowed humanity into WW1 or 2, why He let’s bad things happen now
People will condemn God for doing something or then condemn God for not doing anything

Yes, please go ahead and refute that thought among the free-thinking people.

The paragraph before this one above, you state that your god will go to extremes for his beloved creation. As far as I can make out, he doesn't lift a finger to prevent anything bad happening, or assist any goodness, or provide justice for any wrongdoing. How do you prove your god is not as impotent as he seems to the majority us?

a reply to: TerraLiga

I don’t have to TL
Believe or not, you seem hostile so it would seem pointless to continue

Or if you are sincere
What should God do, what would make you happy?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Raggedyman

God didn't want sacrifices...

God sacrifices his own son.

That’s right, God didn’t want to sacrifice his own son
Isn’t that the point of the whole gospel
Everything

Well that's just plain confusing. Being God means you don't have to do anything unless you choose to, that's the whole point of being all powerful. So either he's not all powerful or he really wanted to kill his own kid. It's simple logic.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Unless you value your creation as equals, unless you want your creation to choose love.
It’s confusing if you believe God is a dictator as opposed to a loving caring father figure

I believe we have freewill, if so, Love won’t interfere in freewill. If freewill is a gift, how can a benevolent God deny freewill.

If we look at the Old Testament and how God dealt with some pretty sinister empires, we understand Gods natural desire for justice. The OT law didn’t work, another option was placed on the table, a new covenant

All powerful, just as you are all powerful when you allow your child to ride a skateboard knowing they will fall off and hurt themselves, stop them or let them learn to be careful
Parents, good parents know that life needs to be navigated, individually, pain is part of growth

a reply to: TzarChasm

And interestingly enough, just watching a Viking tv series and human sacrifice were pretty common, pretty common in many pagan societies evidently
www.livescience.com...

God, Abraham and Isaac made sure human sacrifice was not part of Hebrew culture, ever.
People complain Abraham was going to sacrifice his son, they don’t see that God stopping that sacrifice was an indication God didn’t want human sacrifices and set an ongoing precedent for all Abraham’s offspring. Jews don’t sacrifice and to my knowledge have never sacrificed other people

God showed how much He valued His creation by using His own Son as a sacrifice, clearly to show the non Hebrew/gentile/pagan world that they were valued beyond their own capacity
God sacrificing His own Son indicated no more human sacrifices, no more sacrifices, sacrifices of any type, money, grain, livestock or actions were required, just love others

If you so choose

I thought Christ died for our sins (which we never stopped so that was pointless, we still sin), to bring us closer to God.

Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. (1 Pet. 3:18)

And the sacrifice.. what was sacrificed?

Jesus was in heaven, then came to earth for what would be a blink of the eye in his eternal life, then went back to heaven.

What was sacrificed?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TerraLiga

I don’t have to TL
Believe or not, you seem hostile so it would seem pointless to continue

Or if you are sincere
What should God do, what would make you happy?

I'm not hostile, I'm incredulous. I'm always happy.

Shouldn't your god do what we all do with rotten fruit - pop them into the compost or replant them in the hope of ripe, juicy wholesome examples? Why have a society with the constant threat of bad apples to ruin your day?

Impotent.

a reply to: TerraLiga

I don’t see that as non hostile
So, God should kill those who oppose your philosophy
What makes you right

Pretty sure some see you as rotten fruit, maybe?

a reply to: Skyfox81

That’s a great question
Jesus forgave sins while he walked the earth, before he died
It was a statement

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Well that's just plain confusing. Being God means you don't have to do anything unless you choose to, that's the whole point of being all powerful. So either he's not all powerful or he really wanted to kill his own kid. It's simple logic.

You are digging into the very physics of the universe, known to the Hebrews as 'the Law'. Part of this is the Karmic law, which insists that a tree will bring forth fruit that is of its nature, and it had rendered the earth a vile place. The consequence of malevolent behavior is death and bloodshed. It spread like a virus. The Hebrews used animals without blemish as a scapegoat to quench their due karma for their sins. This was insufficient though, because the animals were far from perfect. A perfect sacrifice was needed to atone once and for all for the entirety of the karmic debt of humankind. Herein comes Jesus, firstborn without blemish, who could be that sacrifice. This was foreshadowed by Abraham and Isaac.

Could God have snapped his finger and made everything ok? Sure, but then the entirety of the journey for each of his children would have been squandered and he would've rendered his own Law void and meaningless. There is order in this universe, and therefore Law, and this Law was fulfilled by Jesus's mission.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Raggedyman

OK. So which God? You mean the Hebrew one? Or the Christian one?

Which Hebrew one? Because God for them changed after they were enslaved in Babylonia.

God is inconsistent.

It seems as though God is filtered through the lens of how much a given person is capable of receiving. Often times they became so alienated to the truth that there was no trace of God left in the thick fog they had created around themselves. Jesus came partially to teach us how to come to realize God on our own. The Christian Alpha-Omega God has not changed, but our perceptive abilities of this transcendent God have most certainly changed throughout history. One of my most favorite quotes from Paul:

" for the (written) letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

originally posted by: TerraLiga
As far as I can make out, he doesn't lift a finger to prevent anything bad happening, or assist any goodness, or provide justice for any wrongdoing. How do you prove your god is not as impotent as he seems to the majority us?

Trust me, no one wants an over-bearing Dad. we learn through this very convenient material interface, and face the consequences or the rewards of our actions.