The First 9/11 Sceptic

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

Added a reply to: Hulseyreport

Because you ignore the video evidence?

The video shows by items on the roof, and the order they disappear below the facade, WTC 7 went through a east to west progressive interior collapse that gutted the building. Then the facade started to move after the complete disappearance of the penthouse below the roofline.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Added a reply to: Hulseyreport

Because you ignore the video evidence?

The video shows by items on the roof, and the order they disappear below the facade, WTC 7 went through a east to west progressive interior collapse that gutted the building. Then the facade started to move after the complete disappearance of the penthouse below the roofline.

This is not my issue. You on this site for years and just deny and deny.

A crash ,drop of floors below will cause the Eastside Penthouse to collapse, it not a mystery. How that happened is challenged!

NIST explanation failed the litmus test. When you remove construction parts to fit neatly with the fire narrative, then you theory on “shaky grounds to be trusted by others.

Plus we know from the relevation in Aug 2008, NIST had no explanation for freefall. They announced their findings to the world.. In the space of three months from that date, they had brand new explanation with freefall included in final paper. Anyone who's got a working brain knows you can deny freefall and then agree in such a short space of time .How can it impossibility , in just three months, now it possible! Makes no sense!

The draft paper by NIST actually reveals the real thinking of NIST about the collapse. But they tried to cover up with a lie and walk away.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

Neutro. Screenshots are dumb.

Damage to other buildings happened when the building hitting the ground.

But the final collapse at the end, the building did not break apart.

good stuff, thanks

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

This is not my issue. You on this site for years and just deny and deny.

I don’t deny anything concerning the actual collapse.

I just point out you have to create a false mythology concerning the collapse of WTC 1, 2, and 3.

You

A crash ,drop of floors below will cause the Eastside Penthouse to collapse, it not a mystery. How that happened is challenged!

It happen because enough of the same fire related failures occurred in WTC 7 along a vertical column that occurred in WTC 5








Enough of those failures along the length of a vertical in WTC 7, the vertical column buckles, and would initiate the interior East to West progressive collapse of WTC 7 before the facade moved.

You

NIST explanation failed the litmus test

What litmus test.

The video, seismic, audio, physical evidence of WTC 7 (and WTC 1 and 2 ) shows no indication / evidence of columns being actively cut.

No detonations with the force to cut steel columns. No resulting over pressure events. No evidence of demolition shrapnel being ejected, damaging near by objects, and no demolition shrapnel recovered.

Katie Bender's family commemorate 20 years since Royal Canberra Hospital implosion

www.canberratimes.com.au...

Katie was was killed instantly by a steel fragment sent flying from 430 metres across the lake. It was thought to be travelling at 140km/h.

Canberra Hospital Implosion 1997

m.youtube.com...

WTC 7 was not fitted with water barrels and tarps to capture shrapnel like a pro implosion.


And that not even getting into no sophisticated demolition system would have survived the debris damage from the twin towers and the hours of wide spread fires...


There is no seismic, atmosphere pressure transients, audio data that is indicative of explosions with the force to cut steel columns.


Then for the “CD” you propose? Or you a mixed explosives and thermite kind of person? There is no indication of at least 600 thermite charges setting off, and creating 600 individual 3000 degree Fahrenheit fires

When you remove construction parts to fit neatly with the fire narrative, then you theory on “shaky grounds to be trusted by others.

Again. WTC 5 had very real fire related structural failures, and a partial collapse. Again. Enough of those failures along a vertical column in WTC 7 would result in loss of lateral support, cause buckling, and initiate a progressive collapse.

The structure only had to offer negligible resistance from buckling to archive the witnesses rates of collapse. Except for a point I will soon make.....


You

Plus we know from the relevation in Aug 2008, NIST had no explanation for freefall.

One. You are referring to a brief period of the facade collapse. The the second stage of the three stages of the facade collapse. Is that false.

Two. If the collapse was Initiated by the removal of resistance by cutting columns, the structure should have at the beginning started to move at the accelerator of gravity,

Three. Actually. Best data analysis shows after the facade fell for a second or two slower than “free fall” the acceleration was faster than what can be explained by gravity. Is that false.

Indicating the structure was under some sort of mechanical strain / tension.

————

Bottom line. No evidence of columns being actively cut.

You ignore the most accurate measurements concerning the rate at which the facade of WTC 7 fell.

You total ignore the evidence of the East to West progressive collapse that occurred even be before the facade stated to move.

You miss represent that the facade actually fell slower than free fall for the first second or two. There is no indication resistance was instantly removed in the same instance by a demolition system that would never held its integrity through being hit by debris from the twin towers, and hours of uncontrolled fires. While ignoring that the facade was placed in a mechanical strain that by best measures shows there was a short period of acceleration faster than what can be attributed to gravity.

All referring to the Hulsey’s model that is junk science.

UAF WTC 7 Evaluation Simulation Plausibility Check (Leroy Hulsey, AE911Truth)

m.youtube.com...

The only thing you have is a manufacturer mythology used by the con artist of the truth movement to exploit 9/11 for a bit of fame for a gullible target audience.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

Neutro. Screenshots are dumb.

Damage to other buildings happened when the building hitting the ground.

But the final collapse at the end, the building did not break apart.

Blatant lie by you. The other builders were damaged because WTC 7 tilted, broke apart, and fell down on other buildings outside WTC 7’s own foot print.

The Verizon Building had been adjacent to 7 World Trade Center to the east and the World Trade Center's Twin Towers to the south,[96] and when the three buildings collapsed during the attacks, the south and east facades were severely damaged by falling steel beams.[36]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

That afternoon, 7 World Trade Center, across the street from BMCC's Fiterman Hall, collapsed, and the building fell onto Fiterman Hall, causing the hall to become uninhabitable.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Sad you literally make up crap....

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Overview of Damage to Buildings near Ground Zero

www.eng.buffalo.edu...

As WTC 7 collapsed, it fell partly on an adjacent building at 30 West Broadway, causing significant damage (Figure 3.15, south face and Figure 3.16, west face). Beams were permanently distorted by the impact (Figure 3.17).
Figure 3.15. Damage to the south face of a building at 30 West Broadway due to impact from the collapse of WTC 7


——-snip——-

3.5 Verizon Building, 140 West Street
The collapse of World Trade Center 7 damaged the adjacent Verizon building. Damage to the west façade of that building is shown in Figure 3.18. Large segments of the WTC 7 braced framing were lodged against the Verizon building, which also suffered notable perforations in its framing and cladding. In particular, a steel column was severely distorted, presumably by debris impact (Figure 3.18, bottom right photo).

Blatant lie by you.

Coming from someone who lies all the time that's really rich. You really should give it up, no one here is buying your junk bonds.

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher

Blatant lie by you.

Coming from someone who lies all the time that's really rich. You really should give it up, no one here is buying your junk bonds.

Really. Quote one lie by me in this thread with evidence it’s a lie.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

So. Now your making empty and false accusations vs. where I back up my accusations with actual arguments, logic, and evidence.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

30WestBroadway
The office structure at 30 West Broadway is most recently known as Fiterman Hall of the Borough of Manhattan Community College campus of the City University of New York. It is located just north of WTC 7. The 17-story building was constructed in the 1950s and has a concrete-encased structural steel frame with cinder-concrete floor slabs with draped steel mesh. The structure had riveted, bolted, and welded connections, and roof setbacks at the 6th and 15th floor levels. The curtain wall consists of horizontal bands of windows over glazed brick. There are continuous lintels at every floor. The building was in the final stages of rehabilitation work at the time of the terrorist attacks.
The southern half of the west façade and most of the south façade were severely damaged or destroyed. The south face of the building suffered structural damage in the exterior bay from impact by large debris from WTC 7 (Figure 7-13). There was no damage to the east and north faces of the building, and no fire in the building, even though there was a substantial fire in WTC 7.

Damage was concentrated along the south face at and below the setback at the 15th floor. Portions of the south façade from the 15th floor collapsed. A vertical section of the perimeter wall extending five floors down from the setback at the center of the south façade was raked away. Local collapse also occurred at the southwest corner. The majority of the glass panes were knocked out on the south façade, in a triangular pattern that extended to the full width of the base. The south side of the building was unstable and required bracing. Floors 9 through 14 had two collapsed bays, and floors 3 through 6 had up to three collapsed bays. No structural damage was observed one bay away from the impact damage.
Floors 9 through 14 had at least two collapsed exterior bays and floors 3 through 6 had at least three collapsed exterior bays. There was relatively little damage at the 7th floor. A considerable amount of debris was on the 8th floor. The steel beams supporting two bays of this floor yielded, but are still in place.
The building was impacted by debris from the collapse of WTC 7. Although structural damage from debris impact was contained to the exterior bays on the south side of the building and between roof setback levels, it was more extensive than that observed on the east side of the Verizon building.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Care to post about the WTC 7 kink?

Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

www.popularmechanics.com...

WTC 7
www.fema.gov...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

This is not my issue. You on this site for years and just deny and deny.

I don’t deny anything concerning the actual collapse.

I just point out you have to create a false mythology concerning the collapse of WTC 1, 2, and 3.

You

A crash ,drop of floors below will cause the Eastside Penthouse to collapse, it not a mystery. How that happened is challenged!

It happen because enough of the same fire related failures occurred in WTC 7 along a vertical column that occurred in WTC 5

Enough of those failures along the length of a vertical in WTC 7, the vertical column buckles, and would initiate the interior East to West progressive collapse of WTC 7 before the facade moved.

You

NIST explanation failed the litmus test

What litmus test.

The video, seismic, audio, physical evidence of WTC 7 (and WTC 1 and 2 ) shows no indication / evidence of columns being actively cut.

No detonations with the force to cut steel columns. No resulting over pressure events. No evidence of demolition shrapnel being ejected, damaging near by objects, and no demolition shrapnel recovered.

Katie Bender's family commemorate 20 years since Royal Canberra Hospital implosion

www.canberratimes.com.au...

Katie was was killed instantly by a steel fragment sent flying from 430 metres across the lake. It was thought to be travelling at 140km/h.

Canberra Hospital Implosion 1997

m.youtube.com...

WTC 7 was not fitted with water barrels and tarps to capture shrapnel like a pro implosion.


And that not even getting into no sophisticated demolition system would have survived the debris damage from the twin towers and the hours of wide spread fires...


There is no seismic, atmosphere pressure transients, audio data that is indicative of explosions with the force to cut steel columns.


Then for the “CD” you propose? Or you a mixed explosives and thermite kind of person? There is no indication of at least 600 thermite charges setting off, and creating 600 individual 3000 degree Fahrenheit fires

When you remove construction parts to fit neatly with the fire narrative, then you theory on “shaky grounds to be trusted by others.

Again. WTC 5 had very real fire related structural failures, and a partial collapse. Again. Enough of those failures along a vertical column in WTC 7 would result in loss of lateral support, cause buckling, and initiate a progressive collapse.

The structure only had to offer negligible resistance from buckling to archive the witnesses rates of collapse. Except for a point I will soon make.....


You

Plus we know from the relevation in Aug 2008, NIST had no explanation for freefall.

One. You are referring to a brief period of the facade collapse. The the second stage of the three stages of the facade collapse. Is that false.

Two. If the collapse was Initiated by the removal of resistance by cutting columns, the structure should have at the beginning started to move at the accelerator of gravity,

Three. Actually. Best data analysis shows after the facade fell for a second or two slower than “free fall” the acceleration was faster than what can be explained by gravity. Is that false.

Indicating the structure was under some sort of mechanical strain / tension.

————

Bottom line. No evidence of columns being actively cut.

You ignore the most accurate measurements concerning the rate at which the facade of WTC 7 fell.

You total ignore the evidence of the East to West progressive collapse that occurred even be before the facade stated to move.

You miss represent that the facade actually fell slower than free fall for the first second or two. There is no indication resistance was instantly removed in the same instance by a demolition system that would never held its integrity through being hit by debris from the twin towers, and hours of uncontrolled fires. While ignoring that the facade was placed in a mechanical strain that by best measures shows there was a short period of acceleration faster than what can be attributed to gravity.

All referring to the Hulsey’s model that is junk science.

UAF WTC 7 Evaluation Simulation Plausibility Check (Leroy Hulsey, AE911Truth)

m.youtube.com...

The only thing you have is a manufacturer mythology used by the con artist of the truth movement to exploit 9/11 for a bit of fame for a gullible target audience.

Neutro: images you keep posting here contradict your main points. The collapse of a bit of the floor inside building five did not progress to total collapse.? You can see the section of the floor, dropped and gaveway, but the rest of the floor maintained structural intregity (east to west)

Even with a roaring hot fire inside building 5 for hours and hours the girders color red) just sagged from the temperature.

NIST ignored evidence, building 5 was on fire on 9/11. NIST instead invented impractical theory- one girder in building seven got so hot it expanded and managed to slip of its seat. This never happened, if you look at the evidence, because it’s well known they cheated and lied about the construction around that floor space on floor 13 and 12. Sad debunkers defend this when the evidence overwhelming they manipulated the models to have the collapse begin this way.;

Evidence from building five shows what would happen here. It is well known building five fires were lot hotter than the fires in seven and the steel frame withstood that intensity!

Neutro the demolitions occurred inside the building. Do you possess X-ray vision, able to see through walls and determine what actually occurred here?
It also known event, building seven steel was shipped away in dump trucks with trackers and never chemically tested for traces of explosive residue.

Arguments: don’t much sense.
You willing to believe the reports the entire inside fell away before the actual collapse began!

Left no marks to the outside face (from our perceiving of the northside on video)!

You will mock the possibility that small blasts went off inside the building and this triggered a internal collapse of the building?

How does this make any sense logically. An internal collapse of all the steel parts and concrete slaps would be very loud don't you think? Why did the steel parts not smash windows coming down?

That's the situation still don’t get. In the NIST finite model of progressive collapse there no freefall at all. Which of course must people who have not seen their study are aware of it NIST midsection collapse, buckling occurring still impossible, based on what is known. For freefall to happen all column support on very side/ every cornersmust be gone no exceptions. My theory on this mess is: NIST probably had not got time to fix that error in the finite modelling of building seven.The only had time to cover it up with a lie in the final report using strange new words.

Neutro
Hulsey can’t design a model to demonstrate the actions of a demolition collapse. You have to rewrite or code a brand new program for that. He only got the use of university structural engineering apps.

You can only mimic what would happen if you pull out columns "one by one" and he did this by DSR test. NIST doesn’t even have the computing program to sim a demolition collapse.

Debunkers cannot understand this. NIST theory is this was a progressive floor collapse triggered by a girder failure. Hulsey theory entirely different. So why would he repeat the same experiment?

His theory about the collapse got started by demolitions. You have got an energy not meant to be there used to start the collapse!

a reply to: Hulseyreport

My screen name is neutronflux

You going to address what is actually posted.

You blatantly lie.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....







originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

Neutro. Screenshots are dumb.

Damage to other buildings happened when the building hitting the ground.

But the final collapse at the end, the building did not break apart.

Blatant lie by you. The other builders were damaged because WTC 7 tilted, broke apart, and fell down on other buildings outside WTC 7’s own foot print.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

30WestBroadway
The office structure at 30 West Broadway is most recently known as Fiterman Hall of the Borough of Manhattan Community College campus of the City University of New York. It is located just north of WTC 7. The 17-story building was constructed in the 1950s and has a concrete-encased structural steel frame with cinder-concrete floor slabs with draped steel mesh. The structure had riveted, bolted, and welded connections, and roof setbacks at the 6th and 15th floor levels. The curtain wall consists of horizontal bands of windows over glazed brick. There are continuous lintels at every floor. The building was in the final stages of rehabilitation work at the time of the terrorist attacks.
The southern half of the west façade and most of the south façade were severely damaged or destroyed. The south face of the building suffered structural damage in the exterior bay from impact by large debris from WTC 7 (Figure 7-13). There was no damage to the east and north faces of the building, and no fire in the building, even though there was a substantial fire in WTC 7.

Damage was concentrated along the south face at and below the setback at the 15th floor. Portions of the south façade from the 15th floor collapsed. A vertical section of the perimeter wall extending five floors down from the setback at the center of the south façade was raked away. Local collapse also occurred at the southwest corner. The majority of the glass panes were knocked out on the south façade, in a triangular pattern that extended to the full width of the base. The south side of the building was unstable and required bracing. Floors 9 through 14 had two collapsed bays, and floors 3 through 6 had up to three collapsed bays. No structural damage was observed one bay away from the impact damage.
Floors 9 through 14 had at least two collapsed exterior bays and floors 3 through 6 had at least three collapsed exterior bays. There was relatively little damage at the 7th floor. A considerable amount of debris was on the 8th floor. The steel beams supporting two bays of this floor yielded, but are still in place.
The building was impacted by debris from the collapse of WTC 7. Although structural damage from debris impact was contained to the exterior bays on the south side of the building and between roof setback levels, it was more extensive than that observed on the east side of the Verizon building.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Care to post about the WTC 7 kink?

Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

www.popularmechanics.com...

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Don’t post unless you want to debate what actually happened by the physical evidence, the audio evidence, the video evidence, the photographic evidence, the seismic evidence at the WTC.

Not your innuendo, mis quotes, falsehoods, blatant lies to create a false mythology concerning the WTC.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can only mimic what would happen if you pull out columns "one by one" and he did this by DSR test. NIST doesn’t even have the computing program to sim a demolition collapse.

Another blatant lie by you.

Hulsey’s model is missing key elements witness and captured on the video of WTC 7 collapse.

Halsey is trying to push all the columns of WTC instantaneously and simultaneously lost their ability to support load at the same instance. That is not supposed by any evidence, the video evidence, not the way items on WTC 7’s roof fell in to WTC 7, and the kink that developed.

And all Hulsey did was magical make all the columns disappear over a height of something like 8 floors in his hack model. It was not based of any actual physical reality, any real event, and has no supporting evidence.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can only mimic what would happen if you pull out columns "one by one" and he did this by DSR test. NIST doesn’t even have the computing program to sim a demolition collapse.

Another blatant lie by you.

Hulsey’s model is missing key elements witness and captured on the video of WTC 7 collapse.

Halsey is trying to push all the columns of WTC instantaneously and simultaneously lost their ability to support load at the same instance. That is not supposed by any evidence, the video evidence, not the way items on WTC 7’s roof fell in to WTC 7, and the kink that developed.

And all Hulsey did was magical make all the columns disappear over a height of something like 8 floors in his hack model. It was not based of any actual physical reality, any real event, and has no supporting evidence.

False. NIST in a modified last report accepted the building fell at the acceleration of gravity over 100 feet. This essentially the building falling through its own structure on the way down to the bottom. So at that point of interaction between the upper and mid section, meeting up, the falling mass, hit nothing that would anyway slow down the collapse.

Hulsey study not a fraud. For there to be freefall over 8 stories uniformly across the entire width of the building. The column support (all the mass really) can no longer be there in any way. If columns and floors were providing support still then you have the opposite effect of freefall occurring.

NIST explanation makes no sense here since there east to west internal collapses are not uniform. The collapses, they presume happened, swing from east to west and there should be a toppling over to one side “inside the building should be tilting .

Finite NIST model released to the public shows no freefall at all where it should be shown. The west side ( in blue) not collapsed. You see this bending out of the shape at the lower half. In know way is freefal possiblel in that scenario and this model proof to me they had no inkling freefall happened until it was revealed to them later on. They've lied to cover up that explosives took out 8 floors of support (end of story on that!)

You can see the error by just drawing a box around the area of collapse.Freefall can only happen here if the section in blue is already removed!

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

My screen name is neutronflux

You going to address what is actually posted.

You blatantly lie.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Back to blatant lies to create a false mythology....

Neutro. Screenshots are dumb.

Damage to other buildings happened when the building hitting the ground.

But the final collapse at the end, the building did not break apart.

Blatant lie by you. The other builders were damaged because WTC 7 tilted, broke apart, and fell down on other buildings outside WTC 7’s own foot print.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

30WestBroadway
The office structure at 30 West Broadway is most recently known as Fiterman Hall of the Borough of Manhattan Community College campus of the City University of New York. It is located just north of WTC 7. The 17-story building was constructed in the 1950s and has a concrete-encased structural steel frame with cinder-concrete floor slabs with draped steel mesh. The structure had riveted, bolted, and welded connections, and roof setbacks at the 6th and 15th floor levels. The curtain wall consists of horizontal bands of windows over glazed brick. There are continuous lintels at every floor. The building was in the final stages of rehabilitation work at the time of the terrorist attacks.
The southern half of the west façade and most of the south façade were severely damaged or destroyed. The south face of the building suffered structural damage in the exterior bay from impact by large debris from WTC 7 (Figure 7-13). There was no damage to the east and north faces of the building, and no fire in the building, even though there was a substantial fire in WTC 7.

Damage was concentrated along the south face at and below the setback at the 15th floor. Portions of the south façade from the 15th floor collapsed. A vertical section of the perimeter wall extending five floors down from the setback at the center of the south façade was raked away. Local collapse also occurred at the southwest corner. The majority of the glass panes were knocked out on the south façade, in a triangular pattern that extended to the full width of the base. The south side of the building was unstable and required bracing. Floors 9 through 14 had two collapsed bays, and floors 3 through 6 had up to three collapsed bays. No structural damage was observed one bay away from the impact damage.
Floors 9 through 14 had at least two collapsed exterior bays and floors 3 through 6 had at least three collapsed exterior bays. There was relatively little damage at the 7th floor. A considerable amount of debris was on the 8th floor. The steel beams supporting two bays of this floor yielded, but are still in place.
The building was impacted by debris from the collapse of WTC 7. Although structural damage from debris impact was contained to the exterior bays on the south side of the building and between roof setback levels, it was more extensive than that observed on the east side of the Verizon building.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Building seven did not come apart at all

Care to post about the WTC 7 kink?

Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

www.popularmechanics.com...

This is the reality.


Can you show the breaking apart bits? The top of the building when its falling seems to be intact here?