Jack Chick and Freemasonry, are you familiar with him?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Good to see all the masons showing their true colours again and creating a hate thread about someone, I mean come on what else is the point of this other than for all the "Beautiful Bretheren" to sling mud at a born again Christian?

Thats rather ironic, since Jack Chick is in fact the hateful one in his discussion. The man's either a horrible liar or a complete ignoramus who unwittingly spreads lies.

Just a passing thought Sebatwerk - Do you understand the symbolism of your avatar?

Gosh, do you think he might? Is it really necessary to give him your opinion on what his own symbols mean? I mean, you have your interpretation, he has his. These things are just neutral symbols, they have no real meaning, only the one people put to them.

It's funny what rubbish is out there on Google when you query an obscure nick like mine - I have a feeling this crappy Satanic website will be up there for evermore just to taunt me for surfing the net while pissed with a bunch of Freemason "friends".

So you do or do not deny having posted that? At oe point you seem to indicate that its someone else who happens to have the same name. Which is it?

sebatwork
....it's a fraternity, not a relition.

You have mispelled religion. Therefore you are in league with the devil. Just as withces can not recit the lords prayer without error.
Its funny how some parts of histroy have a, well, history, of repeating themselves.

akilles
Ma, son. Free ma, son. Free from Woman, Son?

I thought you had said it was a corruption of an egyptian word? Surely the egyptian word doesn't just happen to corrupt into a word that happens to have similar esoteric meaning in english?
BTW, what is your avatar symbol?

I can't decide if its masonic, boer, or merely SAn?

If you are going to debate with me,

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is totally defenceless.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Good to see all the masons showing their true colours again and creating a hate thread about someone, I mean come on what else is the point of this other than for all the "Beautiful Bretheren" to sling mud at a born again Christian?

The "born again Christian" that Necros is here referring to is William Schnoebolen, a documented fraud who writes books and sells sermon tapes to only the most gullible of our species. The label "Christian" suits him about as well as it did Jim Jones.

I love how you masons are always ready to tell someone that they are hateful, idiots, are wrong about the research that we do in uncovering the truths about our own spirituality. When was the last time you looked in the mirror and asked yourself, could I be going down the wrong track? All of your big words won't save you. If there is so much slander out there about the masons then it must have originated somewhere. That's in any religion. If you know the truth about who you are and what you worship is fine and if you can sleep at night then great. The truth is masons, Christians, everyone has forgotten just what we are here for, to do the total will of God and keep His Commandments, bottom line. Of course, when someone other than a mason stumbles on some literature that goes against what you think and has some substance to it, you won't believe it because you are so into your cause. Your emblems, the rituals, the fact that your fraternity is rooted in paganism, and one of your highest ranking brothrers was a racist and tried to establish a NWO is something to look at and very suspicious. (PIKE)

Originally posted by dominic77
I love how you masons are always ready to tell someone that they are hateful, idiots, are wrong about the research that we do in uncovering the truths about our own spirituality. When was the last time you looked in the mirror and asked yourself, could I be going down the wrong track? All of your big words won't save you. If there is so much slander out there about the masons then it must have originated somewhere.

All the tired arguments about masons have been proven to have originated in hoaxes, frauds, and lies created to server an agenda!! These aren't new revcelations you guys are giving us, these lies have been floating around for CENTURIES!

The truth is masons, Christians, everyone has forgotten just what we are here for, to do the total will of God and keep His Commandments, bottom line.

Speak for yourself. You are not qualified to speak for anyone else.

Of course, when someone other than a mason stumbles on some literature that goes against what you think and has some substance to it, you won't believe it because you are so into your cause. Your emblems, the rituals, the fact that your fraternity is rooted in paganism, and one of your highest ranking brothrers was a racist and tried to establish a NWO is something to look at and very suspicious.

Sigh, we don't believe because THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP, but rather THERE IS EVIDENCE TO REFUTE IT! And every religion is rooted in paganism, including Christianity. And I really wish you'd stop bringing up Pike because he was not one of our "highest ranking masons", he was only a masonic author, and only one masons out of MILLIONS. He wrote out HIS OWN TAKE on masonry, and you've warped the meaning of it and twisted it to suit YOUR OWN PURPOSE. So give me a break and either post some evidence that hasn't been refuted, or stop posting garbage.

Oh AND how the media will make anything that smacks of "conspiracy theory" an immediate "object of ridicule."

This prevents the media from ever having to investigate the many strange interconnections among the ruling class - for example, the relationship between the boards of directors of media giants, and the energy, banking and defense industries.

First, we'll look at the Council on Foreign Relations, then on to Jimmy Jones. In the early 1970s, the newly-formed Trilateral Commission published a report which recommended that,in order for"globalization" to succeed, American manufacturing jobs had to be exported, and American wages had to decline, which is exactly what happened over the next three decades; and that, during that same period, the richest 1% of Americans doubled their share of the national wealth, - is not "theory." It's fact.

Now, Jim Jones.
The media covered the situation this way: all the background, the analyses, the witnesses, the media heroes, were ready-made for the press; nor was there any other candidate for blame but Jim Jones. The people at Jonestown were "brainwashed"; their defenders "apologists"; the only "credible sources" were the people who had "exposed" Peoples Temple a year and more prior to the tragedy.
The mass suicide immediately followed the murder of Rep. Leo J. Ryan (D-Calif.), who was visiting Guyana to investigate Jonestown and was ambushed along with several others at the Port Kaituma airstrip. (professionally done, I might add, this is important later)
Jones, who had founded the Peoples Temple near Ukiah and later moved to San Francisco, had promised to create a utopia, where people of different races, education and skills could work together for the common good. He preached of nuclear holocaust, etc, and he would promise his followers that they alone would emerge as survivors.
It was mostly poor Black people, that got taken along on the ride.

Back at the compound (after the congressman's death), Jones announced that the community would soon be under attack and put into effect a plan of mass suicide that his followers had rehearsed many times. The children were the first to die.

Grape-flavored punch laced with cyanide was squirted into the mouths of infants and given to children to drink. As the small bodies piled up, adults drank the punch or were shot by gunmen who enforced the order of mass suicide.
Keep in mind, many foster children were ordered to join Jones' church by the GOVERNMENT! Many members were also recruited directly from San Francisco mental hospitals.
Now, on to the left (or for those Latin lovers Sinister side of things.
"There was an unwritten but perfectly understood law in the church that was very important: No one is to criticize Father, wife, or his children "

Besides splitting parent and child, Jones sought to loosen the bonds between wife and husband. He forced spouses into extramarital sexual relations, which were often of a homosexual or humiliating nature, or with Jones himself. Sexual partnerships and activities not under his direction and control were discouraged and publicly ridiculed. See the "fallacy of uniqueness".
I'm sure the same happens with criticisms of the Brotherhood, love it or leave it, all or nothing.

Leo Ryan (the congressman that was sent down, and KILLED) had been a strong critic of the CIA and was the author of the Hughes-Ryan Amendment, which, if passed, would have required that the CIA report to Congress on all of its covert operations before they commenced.
Witnesses to the airport shooting described the gunmen as being "glassy eyed", "mechanically-walking zombies" who were "devoid of emotion."

Nine days after "Jonestown," San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk were killed. They were murdered by Dan White, described as being in a "zombie state" at the time of the killings. Moscone and Milk received substantial financial backing from Jim Jones during his stay by the Bay; afterwards they were both investigated in connection to missing funds from the People's Temple. That is, until a "lone gunman" took them out.

Michael Prokes, a former member of the People's Temple, informed a press conference, held in his motel room, that the CIA and FBI were secretly holding an audiotape of the "Jonestown" massacre and that he was an FBI informant. Immediately following his announcement, Prokes went into the bathroom where he supposedly committed suicide.

The final area of concern in the "Jonestown" massacre regards the official US decision not to conduct autopsies on the victims of the massacre; the reason given was that the cause of death was readily apparent. The results of pathology examinations conducted by Guyanese coroner Leslie Mootoo however, revealed his belief that as many as 700 of the victims were murders, not suicides. Mootoo claims that in a 32-hour period he, and his assistants, examined the bodies of 137 victims. They had all been injected with cyanide in areas of their bodies, which could not have been reached by their own hand, such as between the shoulder blades; many other victims had been shot.
The discrepancy in the numbers of dead in the first reports, and the final figure had led many to speculate that approximately five hundred people had escaped the first spate of killings and escaped into the jungle, but were then hunted down and murdered. The official explanation, WHY of course the OTHER 500 hundred bodies were hidden from view by the 408 already found. Stacked on top of each other, those Guyanans just couldn't count right.

A U.S. Army spokesman pronounced with complete authority, "No autopsies are needed. The cause of death is not an issue here."

Various researchers have concluded CIA MKULTRA operations did not terminate in 1973, as officially proclaimed, but instead continued in public hospitals, prisons, and religious cults which were used as fronts. Holsinger later stated at a San Francisco psychology forum on Jonestown that he believed the CIA worked with Jones to perform medical and mind control experiments at People's Temple.

So the question is, what did the CIA gain from Jonestown? Was it to learn, or to teach (the populace the danger of 'religious extremists', those who don't trust authority)?

Try staying on topic.

Originally posted by dominic77
I love how you masons are always ready to tell someone that they are hateful, idiots, are wrong about the research that we do

I never said any such thing. Perhaps you just have a guilty conscience?

If there is so much slander out there about the masons then it must have originated somewhere.

Indeed it did, and its been talked about here many times. The definition of slander is, after all, a false statement made with malicious intent for the wilfull purpose of deceiving people. Therefore, slander, by its very definition, originates with liars.

So the CIA isn't a secret society?

Damn.

Bill Schnoebelen

That site seems really sure that the occult can only be used for positive individual uses, thats for sure.

Herebe the Masonic ideals, as told in fable. I need not re-interpret for those without eyes to see on the level.

In the legend of the murder of Hiram Abiff, Abiff represents intelligence, liberty and truth, and was struck down by a blow to the neck with a rule, representing the suppression of speech by the church. Then a square struck him in the heart. This represented the State’s suppression of belief. Last, a maul struck him on the head. This represented the suppression of intellect by the masses.

Correct!

In fact the Character of Hiram Abif is based upon none other than Jacque DeMolay of The Knights Templars and illustrates through alegory his struggles between God, Religion and Law.

Once you have read the higher degrees and can compare them back to the earlier degrees, Freemasonry is quite clear on this.

The riddle of the 3rd degree is not solved until the 30th degree, the 31st answers the riddle of the 2nd and then ironically the 32nd answers the 1st, although in itself it does not answer "the great question."

Originally posted by MrNECROS
In fact the Character of Hiram Abif is based upon none other than Jacque DeMolay of The Knights Templars and illustrates through alegory his struggles between God, Religion and Law.

Actually, he represents The Lamb of God. But you're too dense to realize that.

The riddle of the 3rd degree is not solved until the 30th degree, the 31st answers the riddle of the 2nd and then ironically the 32nd answers the 1st, although in itself it does not answer "the great question."

From what I understand, the York Rite Royal Arch degrees do a MUCH better job in explaining the mysteries of the first three degrees. The lost word is returned, the Master given a proper burial, and the Temple finished. I think I'm going to go through those degrees before joining the Scottish Rite.

He represents "Jesus Christ"? I really think you'll have a hard time even convincing yourself of that one.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
He represents "Jesus Christ"? I really think you'll have a hard time even convincing yourself of that one.

Actually it can be interpreted in MANY different ways, that's the interpretation I was given. Works pretty well, if you ask me. I'm not even highly religious, and I like it.

Keep that thought in mind...there is more to it than you are currently aware of.
What are you really learning if everything you want to believe becomes what you believe?

There are "Truths" and "Better Truths" in Freemasonry. (...Well I'd call them "Lies" and Damnable Lies" myself) and the longer you stay in it then the more you will shut out stimuli from outside the cult.

I recent reminder of a favorite quote of mine by Phillip K Dick:
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Originally posted by MrNECROS
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Er... I think this works both ways, Mister.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Keep that thought in mind...there is more to it than you are currently aware of.
What are you really learning if everything you want to believe becomes what you believe?

There are "Truths" and "Better Truths" in Freemasonry. (...Well I'd call them "Lies" and Damnable Lies" myself) and the longer you stay in it then the more you will shut out stimuli from outside the cult.

I recent reminder of a favorite quote of mine by Phillip K Dick:
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

OK dude. The legends and rituals in masonry are completely open to interpretation by individual masons. Every mason is encouraged to FIND HIS OWN interpretation of what the degrees MEAN TO HIM. Nothing you say can change that.