Who is the most barbaric: Obama or Simon de Montfort?

For anyone who does not know of Simon de Montfort he is a Franco British Earl and full on Crusader who pretty much began the first attempts at parliament and democracy in Britain. Wikipedia describes him as,

en.wikipedia.org...

"Simon de Montfort, 6th Earl of Leicester (c. 1205 – 4 August 1265), later sometimes referred to as Simon V[A] de Montfort to distinguish him from his namesake relatives, was a nobleman of French origin and a member of the English peerage, who led the baronial opposition to the rule of King Henry III of England, culminating in the Second Barons' War. Following his initial victories over royal forces, he became de facto ruler of the country,[2] and played a major role in the constitutional development of England."

There are many nods to him in Western culture, from Britain to France to U.S,


(from a detail in The House of Representatives)

The university in the city of my birth, Leicester in England, is named after him. It is called "De Montfort University". De Montfort was not a nice man, but he did pretty much start the ball rolling with the idea of parliament though. That is why the House of Representatives honours his memory so. De Montfort was responsible for persecuting and murdering Jews in Britain. Now students at the university don't want the university to be named after him any longer:

As Earl of Leicester, Montfort expelled the small Jewish community from the city in 1231, banishing them "in my time or in the time of any of my heirs to the end of the world". He justified his action as being "for the good of my soul, and for the souls of my ancestors and successors".[10][11][12] His parents had shown a similar hostility to Jews in France, where his father was known for his bigoted Christianity, and his mother had given the Jews of Toulouse a choice of conversion, expulsion or death.[13][14][15] Robert Grosseteste, then Archdeacon of Leicester, may have encouraged the expulsion, although he believed that the Jews' lives should be spared.[16][17][18][19] Expelling the Jews enhanced Montfort's popularity in his new domains because it removed the practice of usury (practised exclusively by Jews since it was forbidden to Christians).[20]

www.thetimes.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.thetimes.co.uk...

De Montfort University urged to change name over earl’s antisemitism

De Montfort University is facing calls to change its name over its 13th century namesake’s persecution of the Jewish people. Students at the university in Leicester are calling for it to drop its association with Simon de Montfort, who played a key role in England’s constitutional development. De Montfort was the 6th Earl of Leicester and is hailed as the father of parliament, leading the barons’ revolt against the autocratic rule of Henry III. Following the defeat of royalist forces De Montfort summoned two parliaments which established the foundations of England’s democracy.

Leicester is one of the most multicultural cities in the United Kingdom. I have not lived there for many years and it has perhaps a larger multicultural population than native there now. It has happened very quickly too.

Yet to some former President Obama has done equally terrible deeds, but not against Jewish people. Here is just some of what Obama did:

www.pri.org...

If Obama apologized for 1 civilian drone victim every day, it would take him 3 years

Over a thousand civilians — including dozens of Westerners — are among the thousands of people who have died in US drone strikes conducted outside its declared war zones of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to independent estimates. While US policy clearly states that attacks by unmanned aerial vehicles are only carried out when there is “near certainty” that “non-combatants” — i.e. innocent civilians — will not be killed or injured, this latest incident in western Pakistan shows the US often really doesn't have a clue who it's killing. Figures tallied by groups such as The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) and Open Society Foundation also suggest as much.

I dare say that under Obama many more Muslims were killed, including innocent civilians, than Jews were killed by De Montfort.

Perhaps we should remove all the names of all those who conducted massacres, including those who are Jewish? If we are going to do it to one then we should do it all. We should wipe out Winston Churchill's name, Bill Clinton's name, Oppenheimer's name (his invention murdered and poisoned hundreds of thousands of Japanese people. We should wipe out Obama's name. We should wipe out Freud's name, Freud blamed the kids for their abuse by adults suggesting that,

He actually, seriously presented a theory where the cause was not adults preying on children but that the child itself is lusting over his/her parents and seeking bodily/sexual pleasure thereof.

.

We should wipe out George Bush's name and Tony Blair's name, never speak their names again. What do you think folks?

Of course it would be insane to do it and it is just as insane to witch hunt history like this. Whether we like it or not humanity has been brutal. We got here today because of these people and their influence. We are all our worst enemy.

Finally,

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...





Shall we wipe out all memory of the Balfour Declaration too, eh? It has led to an awful lot of murder and mayhem hasn't it.

I am just making a point because we are behaving like a lot of trashers of our own pasts. We remember history as a lesson of not what to do in the future. We are splitting hairs over men who lived almost a thousand years ago as we face a pandemic? No good will come of this history trashing. Whether we like it or not Simon De Montfort, the killer of Jews, started the concept of Parliament. His name is proclaimed all over the West. There must not be a coup upon one without a coup on the other. There is no innocent here on earth, not you and not I. Cast a stone at ourselves because this is who we are and it is the past we must contend with. These current witch hunters will be the hunted of the future when another kind of so called "wakefulness" happens when we let another lot of trashers destroy us as Al Quaeda destroyed the ancient memories and monuments in the Middle East. It is no difference, same thuggery.

The leading financiers and investors of our world also have their fair share of blame too that makes Simon de Montfort look like your average little street thug. The whole of human history is a house of horrors. Hey, we should blot out the Romans, the Greeks, the Native Americans (because they practiced human sacrifice) and the killers of Jesus too perhaps???

If we are blotting out memory may be we should blot the whole world out with a giant bomb because it is murdering mess, right here and right now.

I'm curious about etymology
Isn't 'Montfort' Greek for 'Fart Mountain?'

a reply to: Homefree

'Mountain Fort'.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

'Strong Mountain Farts' Also comes as an air freshener.

These current withchunters will be the hunted of the future when another kind of wakefulness happens that we let a lot of trashers destroy us as Al Queda destroyed the ancient memories in the Middle East. It is no difference, same thuggery.

I don't believe we should neither hold them up on a pedstal, nor discard and forget them because they were murderous.

I do believe it's important we are made aware of the true reality of history and not just the superficial characters. One can accomplish much, but likewise be incredibly immoral.

There is a fine middle ground. Ignoring the bad deeds dilutes the history just as much as forgetting them does. We end up celebrating horrible men like Christopher columbus.

It's interesting how war and violence is so often tucked under the rug with history and present day. I doubt many people know that trump greatly increased civilians deaths by drones from the obama administration.

We were in wars for 18 or so years and they are barely even a debate discussion now. We just accept it and forget about it.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That's not funny
Have you heard of the Welsh town Foortinginacroodedelevatoor?

a reply to: Homefree
As was normal among the aristocracy of the Middle Ages, the family name is simply the name of the place where they ruled or governed.
In this case, Montfort l'Amaury in France.

a reply to: Kakamega

Surely history just is.

Trying to wipe it out is as silly as crying over those who would try and wipe it out.

originally posted by: Homefree
I'm curious about etymology
Isn't 'Montfort' Greek for 'Fart Mountain?'

The 100 Most Unfortunate Names In Human History

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Kakamega

Surely history just is.

Trying to wipe it out is as silly as crying over those who would try and wipe it out.

It makes no difference to me personally. I am making a point about our current behaviour and the wrecking extremes of our nature. I am actually very pro Israel, but I am also fair and have a conscience. I worry about the backlash. If we push things to one extreme we will also have to entertain the opposite.

Simon certainly got his comeuppance. He was killed in battle with a lance to his neck. The Barons mutilated his corpse. They beheaded him and dangled his testicles over his nose. Us sapiens are seriously crazy. We make all of the Almighty's other creatures look very domesticated and tame.

originally posted by: Kakamega

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Kakamega

Surely history just is.

Trying to wipe it out is as silly as crying over those who would try and wipe it out.

It makes no difference to me personally. I am making a point about our current behaviour and the wrecking extremes of our nature. I am actually very pro Israel, but I am also fair and have a conscience. I worry about the backlash. If we push things to one extreme we will also have to entertain the opposite.

Simon certainly got his comeuppance. He was killed in battle with a lance to his neck. The Barons mutilated his corpse. They beheaded him and dangled his testicles over his nose. Us sapiens are seriously crazy. We make all of the Almighty's other creatures look very domesticated and tame.

Mind you, I'm fairly sure that he wasn't fussed about being mutilated after he was dead. Dead people are usually fairly 'chill'.

S&F
Excellent OP.
Thank you.
Rainbows
Jane

Does Obama have a university we are threatening to change the name of? If not I’m not sure what you’re comparing here....

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Kakamega

Surely history just is.

Trying to wipe it out is as silly as crying over those who would try and wipe it out.

The OP, while I understand and agree with the point being made, is evidence that history has already been wiped out.

a reply to: chr0naut

totally agree