SCI/TECH: Mini Black Hole (Possibly) Created

Reasearchers at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider in New York have observed a phenomenon that closely resembles a black hole. After they collided two gold nuclei the observed plasma ball absorbed more particles than they had predicted and they now feel this is because of actions that are very similar to a black hole.



There has been talk of CERN working toward a goal of creating mini black holes. The CERN project (LHC or Large Hadron Collider) is scheduled to be complete by 2007. If RHIC has actually created a mini black hole it would appear that they have beaten CERN to the punch.

Related News Links:
www.cerncourier.com
www.futurepundit.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes

WTF why are they trying to create a black hole on Earth!?!!?!

Originally posted by CmptrN3rd5
WTF why are they trying to create a black hole on Earth!?!!?!

I am wondering the same thing. Why are they attempting to create the most powerful known force in the universe with no knowledge of containment? It sounds like the researchers may be jumping the gun abit. Could you imagine on quarter of the earth just dissapearing in an instant in one of those mini black holes? I think this tech should be studied much more before we start playing around with it.

How do we know what these people are doing is safe.

I have often wondered that maybe one day they will by accident create energy so intense it just sucks earth in on it's self and they had no way of stopping it we would all be brown bread

Thats it, I'm officially moving to Endor. I also wonder, why on earth do we need a pure destructive force that can't be contained. Naturally I can see military applications, but it seems more like a tool of global destruction to me. This 2012 prediction thing seems to become more likely by the minute.

Originally posted by andersonr
How do we know what these people are doing is safe.

I have often wondered that maybe one day they will by accident create energy so intense it just sucks earth in on it's self and they had no way of stopping it we would all be brown bread

Too many sci fi movies. This isn't really a backhole. Just a cheap replica of it. Don't worry Robert Langdon exists only in fiction.

If they did create a black hole, you would be dead before you even know it. Because the rate of absorbtion is way too big for us to even realize it.

Not only that this supposedly "black hole" is way to small to even do any damage to us. I doubt they would have realized they had created one, if not for the instruments.

So, hopefully no worries.

If the hole is really black, then this is really as scientific feat. We rarely have any idea about the workings of a black hole and this would be great for experimentation, given they are really small and last only a few milliseconds, if not, then trouble.

Surf

[edit on 3/17/2005 by surfup]

Because just this side of the event horizon, annhilated matter produces a metric #load of energy-as close to perfect mass/energy conversion as theoretically possible. This is a good thing. Any matter can be used to provide energy-and at the microscopic sizes, the actual mass is rather manageable. It won't expand unless mass is fed, and then only gains in mss the amount it's consumed, minus energy bled off before the event horizon.

and cyberdude...sorry, Endor's wasted. What to you think happened after the Death Star II was destroyed? All that radioactive debris in the same orbital plane? There's been some interesting writeups on the subject, google 'em up.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Thats it, I'm officially moving to Endor. I also wonder, why on earth do we need a pure destructive force that can't be contained. Naturally I can see military applications, but it seems more like a tool of global destruction to me. This 2012 prediction thing seems to become more likely by the minute.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by Phugedaboudet]

Is this something that could lead to the actual create of a ZPM or am I misunderstanding that theory?

[edit on 17-3-2005 by jukyu]

.
In the short run getting near perfect mass -> energy conversion may be useful, but keep in mind that eventually the mass of the Earth and other local bodies could be reduced. I remember reading a science fiction story where the Earth was reduced by 20% due to mass to energy conversion.

Other long term things I wonder about. [Some people may have too much time on their hands]

(1) Gradual loss of Earth's interior heat, both naturally and speeded up by drilling for geothermal heat. [possibly burying the nuclear wastes we have in a subduction zone would mitgate this somewhat. killing two birds with one stone. Radiation is already one of the heat sources of the Earth's core.

(2) The eventual loss of the moon from Earth's orbit. This would be exacerbated by mass to energy conversion. Since the Earth and Moon work as a binary gravitational body around the Sun, that will leave Earth light of mass and it will start gradually orbiting further and further from the sun. It will get colder and colder and darker and darker.

Off the wall thought, black holes above some mass limit are outlawed within some x distance from Earth/Sun.
.

Originally posted by tonedef
Reasearchers at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider in New York have observed a phenomenon that closely resembles a black hole. After they collided two gold nuclei the observed plasma ball absorbed more particles than they had predicted and they now feel this is because of actions that are very similar to a black hole.

OO ok I thaught you said it was a mini black hole but my question, I Made a fourm and I questioned that the matter that goes into a blackhole, wher does it go? and i go a awnser that somepeople think that black holes ar a sort of worm hole. so my queition now is if they created a mini black hole were would the matter go because they dint creat a white hole(exit for blackholes)?

Maybe their predictions were wrong ! Of course that scenario gives them red faces whereas the black hole scenario is fame and glory even if for a short while should it proved to be wrong.

I thought hawking radiation was due to the spontaneous production of a particle and anti-particle from the vacuum, which normally immediately combine but close to a black hole half of the particle pair is captured whilst the other escapes as "Hawking radiation".

Anyway there's no such thing as a black hole it's actually a black surface. According to relativity time slows down as gravity increases and since gravity is so high as a black "hole" forms time stops at the event horizon. So if time has stopped then how can matter move towards the centre ? Just below the event horizon is the original body in all its frozen glory. Of course such a body will eventually become a hollow sphere as matter shuffles around due to normal brownian motion but moving slower nearer the event horizon i.e. the event horizon captures all matter. Eventually the ditribution of matter and hence gravitaional forces is concentrated at the surface not the centre and thus the black "hole" explodes. The bigger the black hole the slower the process and more matter is captured before instability so a microscopic black "hole" will blow up quite quickly.

Hey its just a theory and as valid as any other theory in the abscence of actual empirical data from a black hole !

One last puzzle if gravity moves at the speed of light how can gravity emanate from a black hole if light can't i.e. the speed of light is zero ?

it ok to look at certain energy but making a black hole is all around bad idea.i would hope they would leave this idea alone.my fears of something like this getting out of hand and comsuming the earth is no laughing matter.balck holes are not to be played with.there so powerful they eat everything in sight.universal cleaners that go around and break up everything.i strongly advise dont mess with this idea.for its not a power that we can control.i cant believe there messing with it.this is very dangerous testing i would want not to live near the testing area.all i can say is 2 thumbs down on this idea.even if we could make one who cares.it not something we should play with.

I'll post the link, but here is a scenario from this research that made me mess my pants

Scenario 3: Quantum Vacuum Collapse
Not content with potentially crushing us into a microscopic black hole and converting the whole planet into a form of matter that would leave no substance, the RHIC could create a massive explosion. Quantum theory says that the vacuum in between particles is in fact filled with energy. Enough energy in one place could break down the stability that prevents this energy being released, for example the incredible temperatures created by the RHIC collisions. If the 1 trillion degrees that is produced is sufficient, some calculations say that infinite energy would be released from the collision, creating a massive explosion that would sweep across the universe at the speed of light. Some have even suggested that massive explosion seen in space could be due to alien experiments in quantum vacuums.

Even if the RHIC is not powerful enough to do this, much more powerful particle accelerators are planned, for example the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). There is no limit to the amount scientists wish to know, so larger and larger accelerators will continue to be built. Eventually one will go too far, with disastrous consequences for the rest of us.

armageddononline.tripod.com...

If you're not having a good day yet, this should pretty much decide it for you.

This reminds me of the movie Contact.

Sanc'.

Originally posted by malcr
I thought hawking radiation was due to the spontaneous production of a particle and anti-particle from the vacuum, which normally immediately combine but close to a black hole half of the particle pair is captured whilst the other escapes as "Hawking radiation".

Post more please. Especially in Science & Technology forum if not already.

I was concerned here the article was asserting radiation was escaping (nay being expelled) from a real singularity, and that's simply not the case (in black hole theory anyway).

Malcr, look forward to hearing your thoughts on Big Bang Theory and White Holes.

All,
First, researchers only suspect that it could be a black-hole based on it's behavior. My guess is it isn't, at least not in the traditional sense. Black-holes are formed when the gravity of a mass causes it's matter to collapse in on itself and form a super-dense structure. Nothing, not even light can escape. There isn't enough mass in the type of experiment they are running, by far, to do this. So it can't be a traditional black-hole like we all think, and if it is, it is sucking in sub-atomic particles through an event-horizon that would have and ULTRA tiny radius. Plus they last for slightly more than a nothingth of a second.

Having said all of that, I think it all sounds highly fascinating, since physicists can't really explain it away.

-P

ohh heres the CERN post

I doubt there is any need to worry. In order for a Black Hole to become self sustaining it needs to have a sufficient mass in order to generate an escape velocity that is FTL and doesn't evaporate faster then it absorbs mass and energy via Hawkwing Radiation.

FTA



So this really isn't a true black hole as a true black hole would evaporate through a different means and it states quite clearly that the particles are reappearing as thermal radiation and not the aformentioned Hawking radiation.

As a side note, if we were to harness Blackhole-like phenomenon, it could theoretically be the second most efficient energy conversion engine in the universe.

sciencenow.sciencemag.org...

Does this have any short/long term implications for space travel? Will this lead to a new form of propulsion?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Does this have any short/long term implications for space travel? Will this lead to a new form of propulsion?

not anytime soon....two basic parts are neaded for that....

1. a means to generate the necessarily energy (this may fall into that realm but so does many other things)

2. a way to apply it in a way that generates momentum, this means the energy itself has to be converted into something that will generated acceleration, I assume your are probably refering to something like amplified gravity waves.