Would you forgive them?

Humour Me in this, if you Will.

If the Devil, Gog, Magog, Beelzebub, Greed, Jealousy, War, others, and Lucifer Himself were alive today as Men and Women; could you forgive them?

If they had long ago taken upon themselves the Burden of Teaching such concepts, having forgotten themselves along the way; would you forgive them?

If they so chose to Open their Heart of Hearts, and See the Light, and Become, and fall to their knees in tears, as kings with soiled crowns; would you forgive them?


This World is a Theater, and you choose your method of schooling.

Yet Again I say unto you All, Choose Love, Always.

Or suffer your faith.

Wise question mate.

I've been thinking about this exact topic all summer. God is all about forgiveness and if there is one thing that he wants above all is foe people to confess their sins and ask for redemption. I'm pretty sure God has a plan for all creation to get back on tracks. I feel like he wants to prove that his vision is the best outcome of all but he is still honoring freewill until the very end. I guess he wants us to acknowledge the fact his vision is to be respected and that evil and and sin is not worth it after all.

So to answer your question,
Ofc I would forgive evil and Satan if they would truly repent from a place of honesty in their heart. And think about it, God probably doesn't want to condemn Satan for all eternity, he just wants to teach him a lesson.

All Satan has to do is to turn around and confess God was right after all. The problem is that he knows that when he does so, he's gonna have to face all the pain he inflicted unto the world.
What goes around comes around. There is no way around it.

Better to empathize, then to sympathize, since pity can be pretty offensive apparently.

Could Jesus forgive Judas, even though he knowingly knew that he would sell him out? Better yet, in a bibical twist, could Satan forgive God, if God asked for it?

Or would Satan be offended by the idea, and God knew it.

What exactly am I exonerating them from? Can you point out to me the atrocities, death, destruction, murders, wars and mayhem under their name they are responsible for? I kinda think the only one I can for sure say is responsible for telling mankind to do such things is the god of the old testament.

By all means enlighten me to instances attributed to those you name. If they were is it my place to judge them or forgive them?

It is interesting how much emphasis people put on forgiveness. "Yeah I forgive you.' (wearily waves magic wand of absolution). OK, now what? What has really changed? Bad behavior with lasting repercussions has still taken place; the injured party still is injured; the forgivee has a flimsy "get out of jail free card" of questionable value. messes meanwhile still need cleaning up; healing is slow. What exactly has been transformed by "saying the magic words?"

a reply to: iammrhappy86

It's up to God to forgive those sorts of beings. Not you or I.

originally posted by: abeverage
What exactly am I exonerating them from? Can you point out to me the atrocities, death, destruction, murders, wars and mayhem under their name they are responsible for? I kinda think the only one I can for sure say is responsible for telling mankind to do such things is the god of the old testament.

By all means enlighten me to instances attributed to those you name. If they were is it my place to judge them or forgive them?

I think of them as pulling strings from the other side, in guiding/misleading us astray from the Light.

In so, they would be guilty of All such Sins.

And yet, you are correct in asserting that in Truth, only He is guilty of such.

For He came down and gave us Life; that which we never asked for.
For He dared to introduce Chaos and Sufferance to us; that dreaded apple.
For He boldly vanished and let us in Darkness to live our lives Unknowing, yet All Knowing.

God's greatest gift to us is our greatest curse.
And yet, it is All Holy and Glorious!


And as for my definition of Forgiveness; it becomes self-evident upon granting it.
To Forgive is to understand, and feel as One with the forgiven; to Know the pain, and Share in it.

As a Christian myself, lets look to what Christ said.

“ But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you”
“ Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy”
“ forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors”


I could go on, but

I would have to say Yes.

Forgiveness is as much for you as it is for those you forgive. Forgiveness is part of the process of letting go in your heart and letting go of the hatred, the anger, the need for revenge -- all those dark impulses you feel after you've been wronged.

We see in this country today what happens to people when they never, ever let go. When they make a lifetime of nursing old, imagined slights and grievances, make a living out of it. It eats up their souls until they become small, angry people who can only project anger onto others around them. It poisons them.

So, yes, you have to forgive or you become them.

originally posted by: Never Despise
It is interesting how much emphasis people put on forgiveness.
OK, now what?
Bad behavior with lasting repercussions has still taken place; the injured party still is injured
messes meanwhile still need cleaning up; healing is slow. What exactly has been transformed by "saying the magic words?"

What’s been transformed? Nothing, forgiveness doesn’t just happen, it is a hard work, in progress, a journey.
Where do you get the idea of transformations? Who told you that, clearly you don’t believe it

Yes, repercussions are endless, the damage, hurt, pain, it’s sin, it hurts others, of course, but forgiveness brings peace, what value peace?

A friend has an x spouse, there is bitterness and animosity towards the x spouse for the damage done, the sin committed. My friend shows, seethes with unforgivness and anger, the x spouse doesn’t know or care.

Unforgiveness harms those who contain the bitterness, the anger, the hate, causes fear, causes physical sickness and, seriously, do you prefer happy friendly kind loving people or people who are bitter, torn and vengeful



Best part is, it’s christianity/religion that teaches forgiveness, nobody is forcing anyone or shouldn’t be, forgiveness is personal choice



And what does the psychology say, guess you really don’t care enough to research yourself is the real point

originally posted by: iammrhappy86
...

God's greatest gift to us is our greatest curse.

What is the greatest gift that God has ever given us?

The Bible says: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son.”—John 3:16.

This issue of The Watchtower discusses why God sent Jesus to earth to die for us and how we can show appreciation for that gift.

Source: Will You Accept God’s Greatest Gift?

Now as Never Despise pointed out, it's up to God to forgive beings like the Devil (there weren't any other individuals specifically mentioned in your list, unless you want to count some King of Babylon individually, but I doubt that was who you were thinking of when you said "Lucifer"). Now with that in mind...

Why Are Some Sins Not Forgivable?

​... —Mic. 7:18; Ex. 34:6, 7; Ps. 103:2, 3.

But we should not conclude from such scriptures that God so delights in mercy that he is ready to forgive all sins, regardless of their nature. Why not? Because Jehovah is a God not only of love but also of wisdom and justice. For him to forgive all sins would be neither wise nor just, and God’s laws are precisely that, so that there may be peace and order in his universe.

For God to forgive all sins would be for him to encourage sinning. In fact, it would make his laws futile, meaningless, useless. How so? For example, if all who violated traffic laws were graciously forgiven, why bother making any such laws?

Jehovah God made man a free moral agent; that is, he made him with the ability to distinguish between doing what is right by obeying God’s law and doing what is wrong by disobeying it, and doing either thing with the freedom to choose. However, with the freedom of choice also went accountability for one’s actions. That is why, when Jehovah God spoke to Moses about His great loving-kindness and His willingness to forgive, He went on to say, “but by no means will he give exemption from punishment.” Jehovah, however, was not here referring to the punishment of eternal destruction.​—Ex. 34:7.

Yet, the apostle John states that there are sins that “incur death,” that is, that do merit eternal destruction, and that it would be futile for others to pray for the forgiveness of such sins. (1 John 5:16, 17) What governs whether a certain sin is forgivable or not? Its nature and circumstances. Among the sins that Jehovah undoubtedly did not forgive were those of Adam and Eve. As a test of their appreciation God gave them a simple command; they were not to eat of the fruit of a certain tree; and he warned them of the consequences if they did eat of it. They were created perfect in mind and in body. They willfully and deliberately disobeyed. They could neither plead ignorance, as later the apostle Paul was able to do, nor claim inherited imperfection and the tendency to sin, as King David was able to do. So what basis was there for forgiving Adam and Eve’s sins? Absolutely none!

No doubt one of the most notorious examples of an unforgivable sin was that committed by Judas Iscariot. Judas had accompanied Jesus for two or more years, had heard Jesus’ teaching, saw him perform miracles, and knew that Jesus was the Son of God. He also must have noted that the entire band of evangelizers were sincere, honest, unselfish. Yet in the face of all of this Judas was a hypocrite, a willful and deliberate thief. And he betrayed Jesus not merely out of greed but out of spite, because Jesus approved of His being anointed with costly ointment. He was chagrined because this use of the money for ointment deprived him of another opportunity to steal, as he was the treasurer for the group of Jesus’ disciples. Having so hardened his heart, he had gone too far to express any regret to God, too far to make any request for divine forgiveness. For these reasons Jesus referred to him as the “son of destruction.”​—Matt. 26:6-16; John 12:1-8; 17:12.

...

I think from that information one can figure out if any of that applies to the Devil.

I didn't feel like responding to your hypothetical scenario, so forgive me for drifting a bit away from that, pun intended (I also saw someone else bring up Judas, the concept of free will and what goes around comes around, which relates to the quotation above that says “by no means will he [God] give exemption from punishment”, Ex. 34:7, and the "get out of jail free card" that Never Despise talked about, so thought the information above could be a useful addition to this thread; God's actual greatest gift, which isn't what you were referring to, is also related to the subject of our sins being forgiven. Oh, and you sort of brought up Adam and Eve's unforgivable sin when you brought up " that dreaded apple". Btw, the common tradition as to the apple’s being the forbidden fruit of Eden is without any Scriptural basis whatsoever).

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Excellent, thought provoking post

Yes, if it was up to me, I would forgive the Devil.

In this Game of Life, this Divine Play that we are in, the Devil has the hardest role --- he/she/it holds up a Dark Mirror for humanity – Offering us the choice between good and evil.

For Humanity to have free will, we need to have this choice.

Plus, the Devil was created by and is part of God too.

It is interesting to note, that there are many people who believe that Jesus the Morning Star and Lucifer are the same being who is simply wearing a different hat.

In my humble opinion, some of the religious texts out there are a parody based on astrological progressions and so it is important to use discernment when interpreting ancient texts.

a reply to: Never Despise

That is a good point.

I think forgiveness makes a big difference to the person being absolved of guilt. It gives them permission to move on with their lives. Sometimes, even if the forgiveness is truly genuine, it might be all they need to continue on.

I believe that our emotions are all on a sliding scale and under certain circumstances, love can become hate and happiness can become sadness.

Similarly, forgiveness combined with compassion and a greater understanding can be the impetus that transform the feelings of grief, betrayal and anger into peace.

I agree 100% though that it doesn’t happen overnight and can be very hard.

a reply to: Never Despise

It's up to God to forgive those sorts of beings. Not you or I.

Matthew 6:9-13
(9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
(10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
(11) Give us this day our daily bread.
(12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But this is not a pass for their sins against the Creator. They still have to stand in judgment for past sins.

I think we've divided into two sorts of forgiveness here though.

Are we talking divine judgment of the sort only God can render or simply personal forgiveness of wrongs done to us by others?

We should all forgive wrongs done to us by others as much as we can, but no one except God and His Son are fit to render judgment from the Judgment Seat which is where you're talking about forgiving Satan from. Only He can determine who does and does not deserve condemnation and casting into the pit.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

Lucifer fought against tyranny. What's there that needs forgiving?

When the darkside sees forgiveness, it hears permission to do it again.

So, forgive as you will. Such an act may wash your own heart free of bitterness but forgiveness will never cleanse the heart of the transgressor.

originally posted by: teapot
When the darkside sees forgiveness, it hears permission to do it again.

So, forgive as you will. Such an act may wash your own heart free of bitterness but forgiveness will never cleanse the heart of the transgressor.

Forgiveness can Light the Way to accepting Love.

But you are correct in your assertion; one cannot be forced to accept Love through Forgiveness.

The Choice is always theirs, as is yours.