Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!

a reply to: turbonium1

What does any of what you say have to do with the obvious lie the earth is flat.

Again. The actual argument.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

'Comets' are simply stars, 'shooting' stars, of which there are various types, various in appearance, movement, altitude, and speed. Most shooting stars are the ones we can see every night in a clear, desert sky. But some of them appear differently, some will move much slower, and at lower altitudes, and these types are much more uncommon than the other shooting stars are, so when they DO appear, it's a rare event.

One.

Your wrong.

Research and conmen senses when seen through a telescope, and comparing the phenomena you labeled “shooting star” to the meteorites that fall to the earth prove you wrong.

Especially in the context comets and meteorites do not create their own light. Do not have the means to create their own light. And are illuminated by the sun. For meteorites, they light up when entering earth’s atmosphere because of friction with the atmosphere.

Now. You did not address the crux of my arguments.

Comets and meteorites come and go. Comets can be destroyed by the sun. Or slam into planets.

Meteorites fall to earth.

So the context that “havens are unchanging, and permanently fixed” is wrong.

Meteorites fall to earth proving there is no water layer above earth.

Comet, or what you want to falsely and wrongly label “shooting stars” travel about the solar system between the planets and pivot about the sun.

Meteorites and comets prove that travel among the solar system does occur. And there is no reason why rockets cannot do the same.

Then the way comets pivot about the sun proves gravity.

Now. The challenge.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You have one year to prove this is something other than a comet.

Newly found Comet Leonard might become 2021’s brightest

earthsky.org...

Exciting news! A newly found comet might become 2021’s brightest comet. Astronomer Greg Leonard discovered the comet that now bears his name – C/2021 A1 (Leonard) – on January 3, 2021 at the Mount Lemmon Observatory in Arizona. Astronomers report that discovery images show a tail for the comet, suggesting we might see a nice tail as Comet Leonard draws closer to the Earth and sun. The comet is still far away, currently between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, heading inward. It’ll reach perihelion, its closest approach to the sun, around January 3, 2022. And so we’ll have a whole year to watch this comet get brighter, and brighter

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: turbonium1

You do know we can predict when comets will be seen dont you? Theres fmous ones like Haleys which was last seen in 1986 and will return in 2061. But lets look at this year shall we? To disprove your theory all you will have to do is wait heres a list of comets and when you can see them.

www.aerith.net...

You really cant believe this do you? You really believe there is no way to know when comets will appear? The chinese started finding patterns a thousands years ago even they figured out they return. in fact chinese records go back as 613 BC all the way to the present. The orbital motion of comet Halley has been numerically plotted all the way back to 1404 BC.

This is fun it allows you to see where haleys comet is in relation to the planets

www.fourmilab.ch...

And here is the one that made the news C/2021 A2 ( NEOWISE ) this is the one we just got the probe imges from you can see it from earth as well

www.aerith.net...

You do realize there are alot of people here interested in astronomy and actually have telescopes dont you?

Yes, and they believe stars are trillions of miles away, and look like tiny points of light, when in focus, too.

I've seen many stars close up, on videos, and they all are unique, and not points of light, and ARE in focus, proven by may sharp details seen on these stars. This is not due to thousands of magical effects, for each and every star, but you believe they are out of focus, it's not good to see reality after all the lies you've accepted as true, from those 'honest' astronomers you hold as the world's truth-tellers.

Convoluted charts like this don't mean squat, but they sure impress people like yourself. It MUST be true, look at their charts, with all the details on it!

They are PAID to make up all this crap, that's their whole PURPOSE here. To pile up a convoluted mess of pseudo-scientific crap, with some genuine parts mixed into it, to appear as legit.

Seeing one comet on video traveling through clouds is enough to show they're full of crap, dude. They have been caught in their lies, right here, and you ignore it completely! I don't ignore it, because it's proof of their lies. I don't know how you can ignore it so easily...

The proof is found by US, seeing the truth of so-called 'comets', going through clouds, and Saturn, and the stars, instead of the BS they say about them. Nobody can dispute that Saturn appears to spin rapidly, and wobble, constantly, eternally. There is NOTHING that makes effects like this, on ANY object, ANYWHERE on, or above, the Earth. If it WERE possible, why would they NEVER have documented them, as being effects on objects, or on ONE object, like Saturn? Because it is not caused by effects, and they know it, so they will never try to suggest it is an effect, because they'd look like complete IDIOTS. How would they account for spinning and wobbling as an effect of atmosphere? There's no other examples that have ever existed, so that's a good a start, isn't it? Then, they must try to explain why they would even consider it to be an effect of atmosphere, when there is absolutely NO PRECEDENT for suggesting such a thing. Even a theory has some basis or precedent, to forward its case. This BS claim has a fairy tale effect to pin it all on, and nothing else.

Choose the best option, it's not very difficult to do, is it?

But please try and explain how a 'comet' could travel THROUGH clouds, when they say they're about 60-100 million miles from Earth...maybe THAT was caused by atmospheric effects too?

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

Comets are found by telescope long before they are visible with the naked eye. That blows your idiotic claim out of the water right there.

You're familiar with telescopes right, with your extensive experience of using them?

What's hilarious here is that the world's experts in this (and I know it will hurt you to find this out but you are absolutely not one) really couldn't give a flying one about your opinion. They are not promoting a lie to fool anyone, they don't care what you think. They're far more interested in being astronomers than trying to persuade morons what to believe. Your attempts to rewrite a subject about which you know precisely nothing are laughable.

If you stopped posting this nonsense tomorrow, no-one would care, certainly not astronomers.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

Seeing one comet on video traveling through clouds is enough to show they're full of crap, dude.

What they Duck are you talking about?

Yes. Comets are viewed through clouds and earth’s atmosphere when using a telescope on earth.

Now. Post videos of comets traveling through earth’s atmosphere.

Your full of crap, and only can lie.

a reply to: turbonium1

Funny. How you have to change your argument. From there are no comets, to comets are shooting stars, to now comets fly through earths atmosphere.

Why does my argument stay its course. While you grasp at ever changing lies?

You do know the difference between meteorites and comets.

But they have to come from somewhere. So that still doesn’t help your argument there is a water layer above earth. And the heavens are permanently fixed

You just lied about comets, and you managed to contradict and debunk your flat earth model.

Congratulations to being totally exposed as a fraud.

a reply to: turbonium1

If Hercule Poirot was a real person, he would have loved you as a murder suspect...

And then?"
"And then," said Poirot. "We will talk! Je vous assure, Hastings - there is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! Speech, so a wise old Frenchman said to me once, is an invention of man's to prevent him from thinking. It is also an infallible means of discovering that which he wishes to hide. A human being, Hastings, cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away."
"What do you expect Cust to tell you?"
Hercule Poirot smiled.
"A lie," he said. "And by it, I shall know the truth!

www.goodreads.com...

Agatha Christie, The A.B.C. Murders (Hercule Poirot, #13)

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: turbonium1

You do know we can predict when comets will be seen dont you? Theres fmous ones like Haleys which was last seen in 1986 and will return in 2061. But lets look at this year shall we? To disprove your theory all you will have to do is wait heres a list of comets and when you can see them.

www.aerith.net...

You really cant believe this do you? You really believe there is no way to know when comets will appear? The chinese started finding patterns a thousands years ago even they figured out they return. in fact chinese records go back as 613 BC all the way to the present. The orbital motion of comet Halley has been numerically plotted all the way back to 1404 BC.

This is fun it allows you to see where haleys comet is in relation to the planets

www.fourmilab.ch...

And here is the one that made the news C/2021 A2 ( NEOWISE ) this is the one we just got the probe imges from you can see it from earth as well

www.aerith.net...

You do realize there are alot of people here interested in astronomy and actually have telescopes dont you?

Yes, and they believe stars are trillions of miles away, and look like tiny points of light, when in focus, too.

I've seen many stars close up, on videos, and they all are unique, and not points of light, and ARE in focus, proven by may sharp details seen on these stars. This is not due to thousands of magical effects, for each and every star, but you believe they are out of focus, it's not good to see reality after all the lies you've accepted as true, from those 'honest' astronomers you hold as the world's truth-tellers.

Convoluted charts like this don't mean squat, but they sure impress people like yourself. It MUST be true, look at their charts, with all the details on it!

They are PAID to make up all this crap, that's their whole PURPOSE here. To pile up a convoluted mess of pseudo-scientific crap, with some genuine parts mixed into it, to appear as legit.

Seeing one comet on video traveling through clouds is enough to show they're full of crap, dude. They have been caught in their lies, right here, and you ignore it completely! I don't ignore it, because it's proof of their lies. I don't know how you can ignore it so easily...

The proof is found by US, seeing the truth of so-called 'comets', going through clouds, and Saturn, and the stars, instead of the BS they say about them. Nobody can dispute that Saturn appears to spin rapidly, and wobble, constantly, eternally. There is NOTHING that makes effects like this, on ANY object, ANYWHERE on, or above, the Earth. If it WERE possible, why would they NEVER have documented them, as being effects on objects, or on ONE object, like Saturn? Because it is not caused by effects, and they know it, so they will never try to suggest it is an effect, because they'd look like complete IDIOTS. How would they account for spinning and wobbling as an effect of atmosphere? There's no other examples that have ever existed, so that's a good a start, isn't it? Then, they must try to explain why they would even consider it to be an effect of atmosphere, when there is absolutely NO PRECEDENT for suggesting such a thing. Even a theory has some basis or precedent, to forward its case. This BS claim has a fairy tale effect to pin it all on, and nothing else.

Choose the best option, it's not very difficult to do, is it?

But please try and explain how a 'comet' could travel THROUGH clouds, when they say they're about 60-100 million miles from Earth...maybe THAT was caused by atmospheric effects too?

None of the above is true. Not one thing. Comets do not travel through clouds. They can be seen through clouds at night. They can also be tracked across the various nights and weeks that they are visible, as they pass the Earth and swing around the Sun.
There are no 'details' on stars, other than their colour. Why? They are too far away to see details - not that there are any to see! Can you see sunspots on stars other than the Sun? Please say if you can see any, because then you display how much of a liar and charlatan you are.
In other words we know just how much of a liar you are. How do you get through doors with a nose that long?

a reply to: turbonium1

You've seen stars on a YouTube video??

Well damn if that don't rip to shreds centuries of astronomical observation.

Those astronomers with their charts and verifiable facts and records and observations are going to feel pretty stupid when they hear about this. Heck I bet they'll all hang up their telescopes and never look at the sky again, seeing as they turn out to be entirely unnecessary to decode the mysteries of the universe.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

You've seen stars on a YouTube video??

Well damn if that don't rip to shreds centuries of astronomical observation.

Those astronomers with their charts and verifiable facts and records and observations are going to feel pretty stupid when they hear about this. Heck I bet they'll all hang up their telescopes and never look at the sky again, seeing as they turn out to be entirely unnecessary to decode the mysteries of the universe.

If it was one or two videos of it, and/or other videos did NOT show the same thing, then it would be a valid argument.... but that's not the case, in fact.


The truth is that we have BOTH observed Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly, and if you believe Saturn only 'appears' to spin and wobble, from an atmospheric effect, or whatever, you have observed it, and you'd mention what you observed, Saturn appearing to spin and wobble, but note it's an effect of atmosphere, causing it to appear this way, perhaps another cause in part, perhaps not, or whatever you believe it is, an effect, etc.

If you believe observations of Saturn, or anything else, do not mention anything that is due to an effect, or think it's an effect, or likely an effect, or KNOW it's an effect, that's their observation of Saturn, and it should ALWAYS be recorded, as such.


You really don't believe they observe Saturn spinning and wobbling, but they soon realize atmospheric effects are possible here. They also know why it's not possible to cause stationary objects to appear to be constantly spinning and wobbling by ANY effect of atmosphere, or ANYTHING else, either!

You claim that they would have/did believe it was due to an effect, or effects, but nothing supports that claim, in the least. Trying to claim 'atmospheric effects' cause stationary objects to appear like spinning tops, is simply a joke.

None of your 'experts' have even MENTIONED Saturn spinning and/or wobbling, so if you believe they saw it, thought it was caused by an effect, that's why they've never mentioned it. They've observed it, but have never mentioned what they've observed.

Fine argument you've got there. Words cannot do it justice.

You'll never admit they kept it secret, even after it's proven beyond a doubt, it's been kept secret....in fact, they're STILL trying to keep it secret, to this day! Not that they don't KNOW it's no longer a secret, because they certainly know that.

But they still cannot mention it, ever. Why? If they DID mention it, we'd know they have lied about it, all along. If they claimed they've never SEEN it, all along, when WE have all seen it, we'd know they are liars, and cowardly fools, who cannot even own up to their foul deeds. Nobody would ever believe they've never seen it before, when we've all seen it, again and again. So that's not a good option, either.


The ONLY option left, which they've chosen, is to NOT mention it, and let their toadies try to account for it.


Termed 'useful idiots', people who attempt to defend scumbags, caught in lies, without any way out, except by 'useful idiots', which argue what they 'really' meant, what they 'really' said, what they 'really know', so they are both 'useful', to suggest they're not liars, but they are also 'idiots', to make those stunningly stupid claims, to defend liars, as honest, as 'gods'.

They've lied about Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly, by keeping it secret - for many centuries, and right up to this very day. You've made up excuses in an attempt to defend them, as honest people, who never lied to us about this, or anything else either.

It was not a secret, because they mentioned there were/are effects of atmosphere which happened, during many of their observations of Saturn. This is the same as if they HAD mentioned it appeared to spin and wobble, being these are both known to be effects of our atmosphere....is that what you're claiming here?

I'm sure you know, as everyone else knows, that there are NO such effects created by our atmosphere, so when you keep on claiming there ARE such effects created by our atmosphere, without a shred of evidence to support your absurd claim, that is called denial. Not facing up to the reality, no matter what.

It's a sad thing, indeed.

a reply to: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

You

I've always said there is NO PROOF that 'comets' exist, a

I have seen comets with my own eyes. As others on ATS so your assertion is a lie.

Comets' are simply stars, 'shooting' stars, of which there are various types, various in appearance, movement, altitude, and speed. Most shooting stars are the ones we can see every night in a clear, desert sky. But some of them appear differently, some will move much slower, and at lower altitudes, and these types are much more uncommon than the other shooting stars are, so when they DO appear, it's a rare event.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You assert an object that doesn’t exist is a “shooting star”

Man. Your one messed up lier.


You have one year to prove this is something other than a comet.

Newly found Comet Leonard might become 2021’s brightest

earthsky.org...

Exciting news! A newly found comet might become 2021’s brightest comet. Astronomer Greg Leonard discovered the comet that now bears his name – C/2021 A1 (Leonard) – on January 3, 2021 at the Mount Lemmon Observatory in Arizona. Astronomers report that discovery images show a tail for the comet, suggesting we might see a nice tail as Comet Leonard draws closer to the Earth and sun. The comet is still far away, currently between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, heading inward. It’ll reach perihelion, its closest approach to the sun, around January 3, 2022. And so we’ll have a whole year to watch this comet get brighter, and brighter

————

Your caught like a rat in a trap...

a reply to: neutronflux

Lies are all Turbo has now. He certainly doesn't understand what a comet is.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

You've seen stars on a YouTube video??

Well damn if that don't rip to shreds centuries of astronomical observation.

Those astronomers with their charts and verifiable facts and records and observations are going to feel pretty stupid when they hear about this. Heck I bet they'll all hang up their telescopes and never look at the sky again, seeing as they turn out to be entirely unnecessary to decode the mysteries of the universe.

If it was one or two videos of it, and/or other videos did NOT show the same thing, then it would be a valid argument.... but that's not the case, in fact.

If you look up you'll see the point sailing by. My point is that you have only seen pictures. I've seen the real thing. You have no idea how a telescope works and have no idea how to focus a camera, and you only want to believe other people who have no idea how a telescope works or how to use a camera. You have no business re-writing astronomy when you have only ever seen a picture of a telescope.

The truth is that we have BOTH observed Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly,

This is a lie. I have observed Saturn. You have seen videos. See if you can work out the difference.

and if you believe Saturn only 'appears' to spin and wobble, from an atmospheric effect, or whatever, you have observed it, and you'd mention what you observed, Saturn appearing to spin and wobble, but note it's an effect of atmosphere, causing it to appear this way, perhaps another cause in part, perhaps not, or whatever you believe it is, an effect, etc.

That is exactly what I did. I saw Saturn, and noted it's distorted appearance as a result of atmospheric distortion. I'm not sure what combination of words I used that suggested otherwise.

If you believe observations of Saturn, or anything else, do not mention anything that is due to an effect, or think it's an effect, or likely an effect, or KNOW it's an effect, that's their observation of Saturn, and it should ALWAYS be recorded, as such.

It is. You've been given the evidence. Where's yours?

You really don't believe they observe Saturn spinning and wobbling, but they soon realize atmospheric effects are possible here. They also know why it's not possible to cause stationary objects to appear to be constantly spinning and wobbling by ANY effect of atmosphere, or ANYTHING else, either!

Please provide evidence that you know what 'they' think. You barely understand your own thoughts, what makes you think you can understand those of other people?

You claim that they would have/did believe it was due to an effect, or effects, but nothing supports that claim, in the least. Trying to claim 'atmospheric effects' cause stationary objects to appear like spinning tops, is simply a joke.

What supports it is the repeated references to it. You have literally nothing that supports your claim. If you did, you would have posted it.

None of your 'experts' have even MENTIONED Saturn spinning and/or wobbling, so if you believe they saw it, thought it was caused by an effect, that's why they've never mentioned it. They've observed it, but have never mentioned what they've observed.

Except they have.

Fine argument you've got there. Words cannot do it justice.

It's coherent, logical, and correctly punctuated. Read it and weep.

You'll never admit they kept it secret, even after it's proven beyond a doubt, it's been kept secret....in fact, they're STILL trying to keep it secret, to this day! Not that they don't KNOW it's no longer a secret, because they certainly know that.

Gibberish. There is no secret.

But they still cannot mention it, ever. Why? If they DID mention it, we'd know they have lied about it, all along. If they claimed they've never SEEN it, all along, when WE have all seen it, we'd know they are liars, and cowardly fools, who cannot even own up to their foul deeds. Nobody would ever believe they've never seen it before, when we've all seen it, again and again. So that's not a good option, either.

The ONLY option left, which they've chosen, is to NOT mention it, and let their toadies try to account for it.

There is only one liar around here. Can you guess who it is? Is it the person who claims to have seen Saturn when all he's seen is a video of it?

Termed 'useful idiots', people who attempt to defend scumbags, caught in lies, without any way out, except by 'useful idiots', which argue what they 'really' meant, what they 'really' said, what they 'really know', so they are both 'useful', to suggest they're not liars, but they are also 'idiots', to make those stunningly stupid claims, to defend liars, as honest, as 'gods'.

At least useful idiots are useful. You don't even have that. No-one lies here except you. Nothing is being covered up, not even your own ignorance.

They've lied about Saturn spinning and wobbling constantly, by keeping it secret - for many centuries, and right up to this very day. You've made up excuses in an attempt to defend them, as honest people, who never lied to us about this, or anything else either.

No-one lied. Prove otherwise. E-vi-dence. Look it up.

It was not a secret, because they mentioned there were/are effects of atmosphere which happened, during many of their observations of Saturn.

Hmm...didn't you claim they never mentioned it?

This is the same as if they HAD mentioned it appeared to spin and wobble, being these are both known to be effects of our atmosphere....is that what you're claiming here?

I'm claiming nothing, I'm stating it as a fact.

I'm sure you know, as everyone else knows, that there are NO such effects created by our atmosphere,

Everyone knows that there are. There is only one person who doesn't. Need another guess as to who that is?

so when you keep on claiming there ARE such effects created by our atmosphere, without a shred of evidence to support your absurd claim, that is called denial.

Except there is more evidence to support it than you can possibly comprehend. Denial is you claiing that there isn't when you have been given pages and pages of it.

Not facing up to the reality, no matter what.

Does it get hurt getting hit by the irony hammer so hard all the time?

It's a sad thing, indeed.

This is just the same s### curled out every week. It's the literal definition of scatology. Nothing but empty calorie-free word salad with absolutely no evidence to support it. If you put as much effort into backing up your own 'theories' as you do in failing to disprove other people's you might get somewhere. As usual you have so little faith in your own argument you're too scared to provide anything to back it up, because you know it's just going to get absolutely shredded. Instead all we get is this putrid nonsense ad nauseam.

Until you start supplying evidence, until you actually get a telescope and see for yourself, you literally have nothing to offer here. There is no point in you posting the same garbage every week.

a reply to: turbonium1

Everyone knows there is atmospheric distortion this is why earlier in the thread i mentioned i use a computer to stack and process images. We can correct for the distortion thanks to computers. Meaning i can get far more detail then they could 100 years ago. This is also why they put observatories on mountains to cut down on this effect. This is why some observatories can get some nice pictures even without computer help. But that isnt the only cause as i mentioned i keep my telescope outside so it doesnt warp the mirror from a temprature change. This isnt mentioned in observations either but it doesnt mean people are not aware of it. You assume because you never heard of something that somehow its not a thing. Weird concept you have there,



And Hubble they did away with any distortion what so ever.

www.nasa.gov...

Turbo,
wondering if in your view the flat earth spins like an LP or end over end or corner to corner to corner or not at all?

Does it move in space or is it just stationary
?

originally posted by: puzzled2
Turbo,
wondering if in your view the flat earth spins like an LP or end over end or corner to corner to corner or not at all?

Does it move in space or is it just stationary
?

Earth is totally stationary, all objects - Sun, moon, stars - move above Earth, in perfect cycles, over and over again.

That's why we don't ever feel movement, why stars have been the same, in the same relative position to one another, from day one, and ever since then.

All evidence supports the Earth as flat, stationary, with objects ABOVE Earth moving, in cycles, in patterns.

a reply to: turbonium1

Here’s you list if your going to spouting the same BS

The blast from the Tsar nuclear bomb resulted in seismic waves and atmospheric pressure waves that circled the earth three times.

Distance to the sun measured by parallax

The way comets pivot around the sun.
Solar and lunar eclipses.
Comets pulled into the sun or Jupiter.

Over the horizon radar
Skywaves
Why shortwave has greater broadcast areas than ground FM
Why increasing antenna hight increases broadcast area
The sun sets over the horizon
The seasons
Why certain constellations are only seen from specific hemispheres
Retrograde travel of planets in the sky
Equatorial mounts for telescopes
Why Mars is closer to the earth at times then farther away
Visible man made objects orbiting the earth that were not there in the sky 100 years ago
Satellite TV
You can actually sail around the world
Airplane flight paths in the Southern Hemisphere
Eratosthenes of Cyrene measures circumstance of the earth around 249 BC
Earth's Curvature and Battleship Gunnery
Phases of Venus
Third party verification of Sputnik
Third party verification of moon missions
Third party / amateur verification of satellites in the hundreds. If not thousands
Star parallax
Earth based photos of the International Space Station.
Map projection
Great Circle paths
Long bridges and tunnels need to take in account the earth is curved.
Geodetic Survey.
Bouguer anomaly/survey


Sorry. Flat earth model is a blatant lie.

———-

Now. Just sit back. Watch you spiral down into unintelligible rants. Then debunk your BS Sunday night so your BS is pushed into the background for another 5 days.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: puzzled2
Turbo,
wondering if in your view the flat earth spins like an LP or end over end or corner to corner to corner or not at all?

Does it move in space or is it just stationary
?

Earth is totally stationary, all objects - Sun, moon, stars - move above Earth, in perfect cycles, over and over again.

That's why we don't ever feel movement, why stars have been the same, in the same relative position to one another, from day one, and ever since then.

All evidence supports the Earth as flat, stationary, with objects ABOVE Earth moving, in cycles, in patterns.

Now you're denying astronomical precession?
Flat Earth believers are far and away THE most stupid people on this spherical planet.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
That is exactly what I did. I saw Saturn, and noted it's distorted appearance as a result of atmospheric distortion. I'm not sure what combination of words I used that suggested otherwise.

A "distorted appearance"?

Blurry? Hazy? Smudgy? Patchy? Blotchy? Skewed?

Those are PROVEN examples of what happens, what we DO observe, as a result of 'distorted appearance', of objects seen, or filmed, at such times.

You should realize at this point, or much earlier on, all effects of atmosphere, proven effects, that DO exist, cannot, have not, will not, create any sort of illusion(s) to make 'spinning', or 'wobbling' effects on any object.

It's nonsense, obviously. No effect causes an object to appear to be 'spinning', or 'wobbling'. No case of it, in all human history, in fact.

You cannot describe spinning and wobbling as an illusionary effect, of the Earth's atmosphere, without ANY prior examples of it, without any proof for it, without any valid sources for it.

You've concocted another 'flying pink elephant' argument, here.


Suggesting that I'm the only one, on these threads, who disputes it isn't true, who claims there is not an effect, of atmosphere, which causes objects to appear spinning and wobbling, as none have disputed your claim, although few, if any, have ever supported your claim, either! Worst of all, none of your 'gods' have ever supported your claim. That claim is your explanation for Saturn's appearing to spin and wobble constantly isn't a big deal, it's long been known, and understood, by 'experts', as an effect of atmosphere.

Why would YOU know what they've thought it was, or was not, or may be, or may not be, when they have NEVER even mentioned it. Oh, right, you say they HAVE mentioned it, as an effect of their observations of Saturn.

As you know what they thought, when seeing Saturn's motions, each and every time they observed it, as we are finally able to observe, all the time, which confirms that they have always seen this, as well.

So you believe they have seen it, all along, and you know they thought it was caused by an effect of atmosphere, because they said atmospheric effects caused problems during their observations of Saturn, etc.

Except that all the effects of atmosphere are very common, known to us, and seen by us. Normal.


What are the actual, proven, confirmed to exist, effects....of our atmosphere?

There is one feature, that is common, to all it's effects on objects - it makes for less clarity to view those objects, than in 'normal' conditions, or in better conditions. Everyone knows that.

The atmosphere cannot make objects appear to spin and wobble, as much as you wish it could, as much as you wish YOUR GODS thought it could, as much as you wish they meant 'effects' as creating 'spinning' effects on objects, somehow, because your gods don't keep secrets from it's faithful flock of mortals!

It's NOT caused by an effect of atmosphere - this claim is completely impossible, and ridiculous.

a reply to: turbonium1

None of what you have said is true. Not one thing.

It's true that there are atmospheric effects.

It is also true that none of those effects can ever make objects appear to spin and wobble, either.

On the other hand, it is a lie to claim such an effect exists within the atmosphere.