Unlimited free energy right below your feet

originally posted by: Jubei42
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

It's not just a matter of one pipeline warming up, you don't get nearly enough heat exchange that way.
There is simply not enough surface area

Then deeper wells and more wells will increase the surface area and also th temperature, the core is whopping 6,000 degrees.

-MM

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
3 or 4 km was not the point of my OP - the point is that this is technically achievable.

The point or not it was wrong, and that was my point.
That and to show you that is not only achievable but is also being done for a long time.

And don´t tell me that it´s impossible, the world's deepest oil well for example, known as Z-44 Chayvo, goes over 40,000 ft (12 km) into the ground.

I didn't say it was impossible, so your above sentence is just useless.

In Iceland they don´t have to drill as the GT vents are natural.

You do appear to have a problem reading my post, as that's what I wrote, to try to show to you that it's done and, in cases like Iceland, where geothermal energy is available at the surface, it's really free, otherwise there's always a large investment involved.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
The world's deepest oil well, known as Z-44 Chayvo, goes over 40,000 ft (12 km) into the ground - that´s 3x the depth we need to drill to get GT energy - so we definitely have the technology today.

There you go again with your imaginary 3 or 4 km depth to get high temperatures.

That is not true.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
The world's deepest oil well, known as Z-44 Chayvo, goes over 40,000 ft (12 km) into the ground - that´s 3x the depth we need to drill to get GT energy - so we definitely have the technology today.

There you go again with your imaginary 3 or 4 km depth to get high temperatures.

That is not true.

I don´t know what your problem is, man. I just asked a question and you arrive with your fists up as ready for a fight... I´m out of this thread, bye.

-MM

geo is a good solution as for one posters saying some places it is Not possible the 2 mile deep thing is over kill BUT Humasn even have Mine shafts that deep the deepest drill yet is over 7 miles .
So there is NO place on earth were it cant be done . heck even a half mile is deep enough you dont need 2000 Degress 300 will do just fine .

Add a heat exchanger and you get cold air as well as heat and electric .

Heck I wanted to just dig a six foot deep trench bury a duck system with radiator's that are empty stick a high powered fan in it and even in Florida i would get inside temp of under 80 in summer and over 70 in winter .

But I can go 3 better Using JUST PVC pipes two water tanks ONE HIGH up say 15 feet up on a platform and one ground lv a generator some kind of sponge In the UP flow pipes ( because im cheep ) wala electric enough to power a home IN A CLOSED system ( ps every few years you would need to replace the sponge stuff even Fome rubber would work just fine .

No digging needed Reduce the cost to build this to oo 2000 $ Including the good generator .

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
I don´t know what your problem is, man.

My problem is that you appear to be basing your idea in the wrong assumption that anywhere in the world a 4 km deep hole will have a temperature high enough for a geothermal system to work, and that's not true.

Yes, temperature rises with depth, but, as dragonridr wrote, the rise is only 25º C per km, so at a depth of 4 km you can get "only" 100º C, but that's not an uniform condition all over the planet, as the Earth's crust is not uniform. That's why the deepest mine, with a depth of 4 km, has "only" a rock temperature of 60º C instead of the theoretical 100º C.

In your first post you point to "thousands of degrees" at that depth, in the post I answer to you just talk about getting "GT energy", which is very vague, so maybe you weren't thinking about "thousands of degrees" there.

I just asked a question and you arrive with your fists up as ready for a fight... I´m out of this thread, bye.

And I answered, telling you you are wrong in your assumption that anywhere in the world we just need a 4 km deep hole to get a workable geothermal system.

If you consider my pointing your error as "arriving with fists up as ready for a fight" you are also wrong, as I don't want a fight.

um! NON active volcanoes ?
just build in a Very good vent system!

with some you could just put pipes in the laver!
now That would be steam power.

but parasites need money !

originally posted by: buddha
um! NON active volcanoes ?

Non active volcanoes are like normal mountains/hills.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

What you mean with: not done?
My house is heated by using that exact technique.
Thousands of homes here in the area are.
... I see some indoor agricultural companies use it for heating indoor crops.
We have diversity of institutional organisations to help if you want to invest in this kind of energy.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Chloride corrosion is much worse than steam. Steam itself isn't corrosive. It can, however, contain carbides or chlorides that are. For example, potable water is not corrosive, but sea water is. As with most corrosive agents, the danger increases with temperature.

Of course this is all just for discussion purposes unless you know the actual temperatures and materials of construction, the corrosive elements the pipe will be exposed to both inside and out, internal pressure, etc. In a system such as this I would also be concerned about galvanic corrosion.

Corrosion is overcomeable; it´s just a matter of priorities of govs and industry. Other materials and fluids must be experimented with, etc.

-MM

It can be mitigated but not stopped. Once corrosion happens the materials of construction begin to lose mechanical integrity. The variation of mechanical properties create boundaries for both stress and corrosion to occur. Especially in the event of carbon leaching. Again, without knowing the specifics of the materials and environment it is impossible to say.

I have seen a glop of mayonnaise on a steel pipe cause a leak over time. The mayo did nothing itself except allow a microbiological colony of desulvofibrio to flourish, the result of which is acidic residue that eats steel. Of course that takes time but it can happen.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Gothmog
There is no such thing as "free energy"
Think about it.

"Free" has two meanings here:

1) Free as little or no money has to be put up. Once the system is setup, the harnessed energy is free for millions of years. OC maintenance etc, but this is an engineering question and I´m positive that corrosion issues can be overcome.
2) Free as in personal freedom. If you own the land, you´ll be independent from greedy power companies which may rise prices to increase their earnings.

-MM

Free is not free.

Unlimited free energy right below your feet
And Unlimited free energy from the sun.

Instead of going underground and using water/steam for heat, Keep everything above ground except the salt tanks. Use parabolic mirrors to heat up molten salt that stores more energy than steam and does not have to deal with mold. Store the molten salt in underground storage tanks for use at night to keep the lights on.

Solana Generating Station

Google Map location

The Solana Generating Station is a solar power plant near Gila Bend, Arizona, about 70 miles (110 km) southwest of Phoenix, completed in 2013. When commissioned it was the largest parabolic trough plant in the world and the first U.S. solar plant with molten salt thermal energy storage.[3] Built by the Spanish company Abengoa Solar, it has a total capacity of 280 megawatts (MW) gross, from two 140 MW gross (125 MW net) steam turbine generators, which is enough to power 70,000 homes while avoiding around 475,000 tons of CO2 every year.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

I am not going to argue with either of you because we are all correct in what we are saying. I am in the oil transportation business, I know maintenance and corrosion. It is Kool and the Gang. I was just pointing out that a different working fluid may be considered. The treatment of water before injecting into a system is kind of a crap shoot where you gamble that you can make money before you have to replace parts. That is why there are two wells in most operations; you can take one offline and produce out of the other.

I am not a power plant engineer and do not know the specifics but I do know enough to understand that it is a huge undertaking to do it right. I interact million dollar projects and see the effort that goes into them (oil and gas) and have a clue on what the course that is needed to be followed.

Water is corrosive. Even if treated. It is the free radical hydrogen that binds to anything with a free electron bond. Treating water only delays how fast it happens.

It happens in oil that does not even have water added to it! We run pigs all the time to check for corrosion in the oil pipeline because of that (hydrogen binding to anything).

It is all good! We are still talking about an approach that works, I think, and are not at opposition points!

a reply to: staple

Your salt would stop your system from working within a couple of hours as the salt built up in the rocks. Apparently people did not understand my point. Its the costs is why geothermal is not practical in most areas. The deeper you drill the more it costs to get to 4 km in depth could cost anywhere from 5 million to 8 million. If you have to go deeper say 6 km that price can be over 20 million.

Now there is bigger problems to that free energy maintaing that kind of system with pumps is expensive so the more you spend in drilling the more you need to recoup in electricity prices. A mature engineered geothermal power plant can churn out between 1 and 50 megawatts of electricity, enough to supply 800 to 41,000 average U.S. homes. Now heres the kicker you can dig down that deep only to discover you cant pump enough water through the rocks to make money. you want to get about 80 kilograms of water a second. Then there is another cost you have to redrill your boreholes every 5 to 10 years.

So by the time you add all this up it can be considerably cheaper to make a gas fired turbine. And you can get up to 500 megawatts from one plant. So if your an electric company unless your geothermal is at a shallow depth its a huge waste of money.

a reply to: dragonridr

I was providing a working example of a working molten salt power plant. An alternative to geothermal. I understand the complexities of geothermal and fracking.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Yes it is done, it never stopped. It's just that the amount of power for the effort is low.

www.energy.gov...

Apparently the DOE thinks 100GW is possible and is investing in that future. It's scarey to think about large scale uncontrolled steam powered errosion of natural cavities though. Especially because the projected total of triggering a super volcano earthquake is only 10% of our expected needs.

Now if only we could accidentally trigger a volcano in hollywood, reduce the need for fossil fuels or create new fossils, whatever.