Adaptations are clear evidence of intelligent design

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Sounds like a super convoluted story that bad parents would fabricate to explain away all of their bad parenting instead of coming clean and facing their mistakes.

you so often comment on things you have no idea about. Like a toddler interrupting algebra class claiming letters can't be in equations.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Sounds like a super convoluted story that bad parents would fabricate to explain away all of their bad parenting instead of coming clean and facing their mistakes.

you so often comment on things you have no idea about. Like a toddler interrupting algebra class claiming letters can't be in equations.

Kind of like you interrupting in biology class and debating with the teacher about macroevolution vs creationism.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Kind of like you interrupting in biology class and debating with the teacher about macroevolution vs creationism.

You have no room to talk. You always avoid biological discussion with me because you can't hang. I'm not trying to be arrogant, it's just a matter of fact.

Adaptations are assets of biological organisms that are already present in their genome as a possibility. Allele variability allows phenotypic diversity as well as adaptability to various climate and stressors. There's no evolution involved, it is simply the environment bringing forth a trait that was already present in the organism's genome. Organisms especially cannot go outside their particular genetic bounds and become a distinctly different organism, according to the research that shows that it simply doesn't happen.

Antibiotic resistance is one of the best examples. Scientists found that it was quickly reversible, which totally shattered the notion that these were evolving. This is good news for health, because this means that these populations resort back to being vulnerable to antibiotics rather quickly. They found that antibiotic resistance was due to the increased expression of a detoxification pump in the microbial genome. An Increased number of detox pumps means that they can handle a higher anti-biotic load. This is not evolution, it is simple epigenetics.

a reply to: cooperton

There's only one reasonable way to settle this debate. God has to make an ATS account or he doesn't exist.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

There's only one reasonable way to settle this debate. God has to make an ATS account or he doesn't exist.

If you didn't believe someone who rose from the dead on their own accord, you wouldn't believe someone who made an ATS account is acting on behalf of God.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton

There's only one reasonable way to settle this debate. God has to make an ATS account or he doesn't exist.

If you didn't believe someone who rose from the dead on their own accord, you wouldn't believe someone who made an ATS account is acting on behalf of God.

If they were truly convincing, I would do my best to consider their position. The only obstacle here is that "they" don't exist.


Also, I didn't say "someone acting on behalf of god". God him/herself has to make an account here on ATS to make their own case personally or else... we end up exactly where we started.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

If they were truly convincing, I would do my best to consider their position.

You're one of the most staunch atheists I've ever discussed with. I don't think you maintain your objectivity.

The only obstacle here is that "they" don't exist.

Well that sort of bias will make it humanly impossible to communicate with you.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

If they were truly convincing, I would do my best to consider their position.

You're one of the most staunch atheists I've ever discussed with. I don't think you maintain your objectivity.

The only obstacle here is that "they" don't exist.

Well that sort of bias will make it humanly impossible to communicate with you.

Makes it humanly impossible to demonstrate with any degree of credibility that there is such a thing as this extra dimensional mind you keep talking about. Which proves my point.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Makes it humanly impossible to demonstrate with any degree of credibility that there is such a thing as this extra dimensional mind you keep talking about. Which proves my point.

No because someone who is open to it is able to start to feel the biofeedback and sense on a higher level than the dulled sensorium of hedonistic pursuits.

Someone who is closed off cannot receive these gifts

"And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. "

Your doubt is capable of shutting you off from reality.

originally posted by: neoholographic

Adaptations are clear evidence of intelligent design. There's a clear one to one correspondence between the need of the organism and the evolution of that specific need. There's no randomness or anything natural.

It very simple, those who survive have offspring and whatever it was that helped them survive was past on...that is evolution in a nutshell. Intelligent design is just your perspective as to how evolution actually works...

An organism needs x to survive and x evolves. How can anyone accept this as random or natural?

Why is this information availble to the organism?

If this occurred naturally and through random mutations, then there would be millions of fossils from organisms that evolved traits that didn't help it survive and even then why would the information needed for the organism to survive even be available? Where did it come from?

Remember that trillions of species have come and gone, so no intelligent design information is passed, in a few million years ALL species on earth including humans will be gone and replaced, so how does intelligent design information play into that?

BTW what information are you talking about? Like having a slightly thicker shell, or stronger bite. Life sat in a quagmire not really going anywhere for billions of years and then one lifeform was able to feed on another and the predator and prey was born. After that happen it was like a massive arms race and life exploded in many directions.

So think of it this way that first predator started to feed on a prey, but there were a couple of the prey that it couldn't get its mandibles into as they had just a slightly thicker shell. The thicker shell prey started to multiply while the thinner one slowly died out as the food for the predator. Then the predator started to die out as the thicker shell replaced all the thinner shell prey, but there were a couple of predators that had just slightly stronger mandibles and they could eat the thicker shell prey.

Rinse and repeat this millions of times...no intelligent design needed.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

It very simple, those who survive have offspring and whatever it was that helped them survive was past on...that is evolution in a nutshell. Intelligent design is just your perspective as to how evolution actually works...

How they get those traits in the first place is what is in question though. You can't just generate new features which are co-dependent with other facets of the body because the body always required those pieces to be present to function. Sequential modification by mutations is not capable of creating interdependent systems because the pieces are required in synchrony and individually they cannot full perform their function.

Life sat in a quagmire not really going anywhere for billions of years and then one lifeform was able to feed on another and the predator and prey was born. After that happen it was like a massive arms race and life exploded in many directions.


So think of it this way that first predator started to feed on a prey, but there were a couple of the prey that it couldn't get its mandibles into as they had just a slightly thicker shell. The thicker shell prey started to multiply while the thinner one slowly died out as the food for the predator. Then the predator started to die out as the thicker shell replaced all the thinner shell prey, but there were a couple of predators that had just slightly stronger mandibles and they could eat the thicker shell prey.

What's the empirical evidence for this assertion?

Rinse and repeat this millions of times...no intelligent design needed.

The problem with simplifying it like that is that genes don't work that way. There's not a single height gene, like I said before, there are many co-dependent factors and it's not as simple as Darwin wished it would have turned out.

originally posted by: cooperton

No because someone who is open to it is able to start to feel the biofeedback and sense on a higher level than the dulled sensorium of hedonistic pursuits.

Someone who is closed off cannot receive these gifts

"And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. "

Your doubt is capable of shutting you off from reality.

Why does one need to have faith to feel this? Why is it not just some tangible force always there for everyone whether you believe or not, like gravity is? If it is real and not just an abstract idea wouldn't it be a force we would all feel no matter what? If something is real then it is still real whether you believe in it or not. I can not believe in the wind, but it would still blow in my face either way. To say something like if you believe hard enough you can actually feel God really seems like you are faking yourself out to believe in something not there.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Why does one need to have faith to feel this? Why is it not just some tangible force always there for everyone whether you believe or not, like gravity is? If it is real and not just an abstract idea wouldn't it be a force we would all feel no matter what? If something is real then it is still real whether you believe in it or not. I can not believe in the wind, but it would still blow in my face either way. To say something like if you believe hard enough you can actually feel God really seems like you are faking yourself out to believe in something not there.

This is the source of our existence that is so fundamental that you could potentially never notice until you are deprived of it. Like a fish in water doesn't need to believe in water for it to sustain its life both inside and out. Not until the fish is deprived of it does it realize that water was persisting its life the whole time. Same with the intelligible Spirit its literally what keeps us alive and all biological life. It is perpetuated by the laws thenuphold all matter and allow our bodies to remain intact. We've just been raised in the atheist religion so we've been blinded to what is so obvious

originally posted by: cooperton

How they get those traits in the first place is what is in question though. You can't just generate new features which are co-dependent with other facets of the body because the body always required those pieces to be present to function. Sequential modification by mutations is not capable of creating interdependent systems because the pieces are required in synchrony and individually they cannot full perform their function.

Micro changes over a very long time. How does all polar bears become white when they were once brown? Did God make them white so they can hunt on snow better? Also not every change is a reaction to correct. Most changes are just changes due to a huge number of environmental forces. Adapt changes is just one way of many different ways we can change. If the change is not good or at least neutral to our survival then we die out, or at least that one change dies out. Why did the Neanderthal die out, as example.. Maybe they were too slow to reproduce comparted to us and the ice age over came them.

What's the empirical evidence for this assertion?

We know that life didn't change very much based on fossils, we also know about when predators came about and massive evolutionary changes took place once again seen in fossils, but it is rich you would ask...

The problem with simplifying it like that is that genes don't work that way. There's not a single height gene, like I said before, there are many co-dependent factors and it's not as simple as Darwin wished it would have turned out.

I gave one of maybe a million different influences in evolution. We see this type of change all the time. As example why do Black people get sickle cells as example as it is not a good trait and reduces life expectancy by up to 30 years, BUT it is a good trait when dealing with malaria in children. So they had some mutation and it survived because it actually prevented malaria from infecting, so like a prey with a slightly harder shell that was allowed to preproduce, Blacks with sickle cell were not killed by malaria and were allowed to preproduce. The fact they have a much shorter life span is not something evolution has any affect over since evolution stops after reproduction stops, so if people with sickle cell die at 50 they still made it through their reproduction cycle where children with normal cells that got malaria didn't. This is why Blacks have about 1 in 500 with sickle cell.

originally posted by: neoholographic
It's really amazng when you see a false paradigm that people believe. They abandon all logic and reason to accept the false paradigm.

Adaptations are clear evidence of intelligent design. There's a clear one to one correspondence between the need of the organism and the evolution of that specific need. There's no randomness or anything natural.

An organism needs x to survive and x evolves. How can anyone accept this as random or natural?

Why is this information availble to the organism?

If this occurred naturally and through random mutations, then there would be millions of fossils from organisms that evolved traits that didn't help it survive and even then why would the information needed for the organism to survive even be available? Where did it come from?

Again, there's a one to one correspondence between the need of an organism and the evolution of that need.

When an organism is in a malaria rich environment, a point mutation occurs that gives the organism sickle cell to fight against malaria. That's a one to one correspondence. The organism needs x to survive and a mutation occurs at exactly the right point in order to give the organism what it needs to survive.

Where is randomness or anything natural?

There was a recent study where a lizard evolved specific adaptions it needed in 36 years!

Lizards Rapidly Evolve After Introduction to Island

The changes should take millions of years-but these creatures are doing it in mere decades.

api.nationalgeographic.com...

You know why it evolved so rapidly? It's because we're designed to evolve the traits that we need to survive. The intelligent Designer has downloded the information needed to evolve and survive in different environments.

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF AN ORGANISM TRYING TO ADAPT TO THEIR ENVIRONMENTS IN ANY NATURAL OR RANDOM WAY!

We're Designed to adapt to different environments and the information needed to survive is available to us in the genome.

There's alsways this one to one correspondence between the organism needing x trait to survive and then that specific trait evolves.

With something natural and random, a, b, c, d.....x, y, z traits evolve and then over hundreds of thousands to millions of years, one of these traits just happen to magically be the right trait needed and is naturally selected via reproduction.

This is just a fantasy that's impossible and what we see is the organism needs x trait to survive and x trait evolves.

This is why they thought the lizard would take millions of years to evolve new traits to survive not 36 years. Where are all of the dead lizards that evolved the wrong traits that didn't help the lizard survive?

When I talk about transitional fossils, I'm not talking about an organism needing x trait then evolving the exact trait it needs to survive. I'm saying the fossil record should be littered with fossils that show thousands or millions of traits just randomly evolving that don't help the organism survive.

Here's some examples of adaptations:

The maned wolf (pictured) is part of the canid family and a relative of other wolves, coyotes, foxes, and domestic dogs. One evolutionary theory says the maned wolf's long legs evolved to help it survive in the tall grasslands of South America.

The camel has several adaptations to help it survive in its environment. It has two rows of long, thick eyelashes to protect its eyes from the blowing desert sand, and its nostrils can be closed to keep out sand. Its hooves are broad and leathery, creating natural "snowshoes" to prevent it from sinking in the sand. And its hump stores fat so it can go for long periods without food or water.

www.thoughtco.com...

Why is this information available to the organism? How does the organism know what it needs to survive? Why don't we have a forest filled with long neck animals? Why does one species evolve camouflouge to hide from predators and another a hard shell to protect itself?

It's like a magic box filled with whatever you need. If you need money, reach into the box and pull out the exact change. If you need a wrench, don't look for one, just stick your hand in the box and pull out a wrench. Lost the remote? Don't go looking for it just stick your hand in the box and pull out a new remote.

This is a natural interpretation of evolution. It's a fantasy that can't happen.

Look at extremophiles. They adapt to all of these different environments they don't try to adapt in any natural or random way.

Like I said, this is just a false paradigm that's built to deny the existence and intelligence of our Creator.

I don't believe in creationism... But say I did... which God would be responsible for the
Intelligent design of earths flora and Fauna?
Any answer is appreciated .

originally posted by: cooperton

This is the source of our existence that is so fundamental that you could potentially never notice until you are deprived of it. Like a fish in water doesn't need to believe in water for it to sustain its life both inside and out. Not until the fish is deprived of it does it realize that water was persisting its life the whole time. Same with the intelligible Spirit its literally what keeps us alive and all biological life. It is perpetuated by the laws thenuphold all matter and allow our bodies to remain intact. We've just been raised in the atheist religion so we've been blinded to what is so obvious

And then I live a long happy life not believing and another who believes down to their core dies very young in a painful life... Where is the payoff... ever lasting life?

a reply to: whereislogic

So back when we didn't know how anything worked we had a lot of Gods to explained each. Today we use one God to explain whatever it is we do not know yet. First, what makes the two different, and second we actually do know a lot more about things like evolution, but people still want to fall back to God as the reason.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

And then I live a long happy life not believing and another who believes down to their core dies very young in a painful life... Where is the payoff... ever lasting life?

Why are you afraid of death?

So back when we didn't know how anything worked we had a lot of Gods to explained each. Today we use one God to explain whatever it is we do not know yet. First, what makes the two different, and second we actually do know a lot more about things like evolution, but people still want to fall back to God as the reason.

Dude these comments are so narrow-minded it's kind of sickening. Not everyone who believes differently than you is a blind idiot. But it's ironic because evolution essentially posits that blind idiocy made life... so I guess there's that.

originally posted by: cooperton

Why are you afraid of death?

Actually I'm not and the older I get it looks more inviting..

Dude these comments are so narrow-minded it's kind of sickening. Not everyone who believes differently than you is a blind idiot. But it's ironic because evolution essentially posits that blind idiocy made life... so I guess there's that.

I guess my point is God is an easy way out to explain anything you want, and dealing with evolution I find it strange that we can not believe exactly in the same thing as how life evolves with the only difference is God is the why and not the how. You all want God is the how too as in a magic trick, because you know nothing else can work even if it was created by God.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

I guess my point is God is an easy way out to explain anything you want, and dealing with evolution I find it strange that we can not believe exactly in the same thing as how life evolves with the only difference is God is the why and not the how. You all want God is the how too as in a magic trick, because you know nothing else can work even if it was created by God.

It wasn't a cop out though. I came to the conclusion through surveying the evidence that intelligence is required to generate these biological organisms.

I wish you luck in your endeavors, don't be so hard on people who think differently than you haha...