Drug Exec Tries to DEFEND Charging $763 PER PILL

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Southern Guardian

I have never understood how they get away with charging magnitudes more in the US, for the exact same "pill"!

Because the politicians you vote for are paid to allow it to happen.

That includes much of your Democrat overlords.

You should yield and give Trump at least a cm as he tried to EO some pressure off since Congress is politically gridlocked.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

its #ing shocking man , they are doing the same # now in the UK thanks to the tories
insulin and many other drugs are going to sky rocket

tory minister admits US is free to raise prices on drugs bought by the NHS

originally posted by: carewemust
There is an ever increasing battle between Pharmaceutical companies and Insurance Companies.

Consumers are caught in the middle, because Insurance companies are increasingly forcing customers to to pay 20% of a drug's cost now at the pharmacist, instead of a $20 co-pay.

A big problem, and the reason why Covid-19 deaths in the USA are nearing 200,000, is because Americans are sicker than people in most other "developed" nations.

Sicker = More Demand for Medications (drugs).

More Demand = Higher Price.

We aren't sicker; we are just bigger. There are only 7 and a half billion people on the entire planet, and we have 400 million. It's a really big percentage of the world population in one single country. 200k is nothing compared to 400 million.

More demand doesn't equate to higher prices; short supply equates to higher prices. The more demand there is, provided supply can be met, actually drives the price DOWN, not up. The drug in question isn't having supply issues.

It's Supply and Demand. If supply is low, that means demand is higher than can be met, which equates to higher prices. If supply is high, that means the demand on that supply is actually low, which drives the price down. Just because a lot of people need something, doesn't mean the product is in demand; it's only in demand, if the supply is short.

The drug in the op that went from 215$ a pill to 760$ a pill, didn't go up in price for ANY REASON OTHER THAN maximizing profit. There wasn't supply issues. There wasn't improvements in the treatment. People weren't getting better faster. The manufacturing costs on the drug didn't change. The drug's chemical composition also didn't change.

The was the good old fashioned price gouge; raise the price because you can. In most industries if you raise your price too high, you'll actually make less money because people will cease to be willing to pay the asking price. In the health industry, there often isn't choices -- you NEED X, so no matter what it cost, that's still what you NEED to have a chance at survival. So we raise the cost as much as we can, we eff over the people without insurance, and we raise the price as much as insurance is willing to pay; meanwhile, insurance will start coming up with reasons to not cover it, and more and more people will go without the drug.

When a product first comes out, it's at it's most expensive, as the cost for R&D is paid off, and the production pipeline gets more refined, the cost comes down; in every industry with the exception of pharmaceuticals.

To put the number in perspective apple spent 2.6 billion to produce the first iphone and it cost 299 - imagine if apple was still selling the iphone 1 but the price increased to 900 and you had to buy one everyday.

The only way to bring down the cost of health care is to reduce the need for it through nutrition and health. PE should be part of your GPA - actually the most important grade.

I know all about it. My grandma, before she died, had to have a neighbor who is injured come every other week to give her a shot which fluctuated between 7,000 and 12,000 dollars a shot and much of that was out of pocket. Dont remember it now but I looked up the stoichiometry or whatever you call it and at least to me, it seemed like a pretty simple Na²C⁶Li I mean, I dont remember any of it now but I know that they can combine simple elements for mot all that much money at all. Notjing worth ten grand for. 10 IUs.

Then there was the time on new years day when all the clinics and urgent cares were closed so I went to the hospital since I had gone 5 or 6 days at that point with.....with....you know....the big D. And again, that's THE big D not just A bi.....nevermind, you get it. Anyway one bag of saline in a chair, no getting put into a triage bed, no room, no medications, one single bag of saline somehow made it all go away more or less. My bill came in the mail a few weeks later and I dreaded the 500 dollars I know they would want for saline. My bill? FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS! And I was away from home so I was out of network. Thank God they were willing to suffer a major loss to the hospital and meet me at 7000 bucks Cuz that ruined me financially for a year or two...kind generous sacrificing hospital I guess. 14 thousand dollars for slightly salted water. My God. Hang em all!

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Amazing how they continue to get away with it. This is just criminal:

In a video that has gone viral, Porter is shown confronting the pharmaceutical executive on Wednesday over his financial compensation during a hearing on runaway drug prices. The California Democrat said Celgene more than tripled the price of cancer drug Revlimid to $765 a pill, from $215 in 2005, without significantly improving the treatment. Alles received a $500,000 bonus connected to higher profits from Revlimid in the last two years he served as chief executive of Celgene, Porter said.

"Do you know what this number is," Porter asked Alles after writing the figure "$13 million" on a whiteboard at her side. Alles responded that he didn't know but that it looked like his compensation.

"So to recap here, the drug didn't get any better, the cancer patients didn't get any better — you just got better at making money. You just refined your skills at price-gouging," Porter said.

CBS

It was amusing seeing this executive twist and turn at the thought of having to justify the unjustifiable but we all know the outcome in the end. He'll go back to his mansion and continue his high lifestyle. This is an issue that has been lingering for years, the sky high cost of drugs in our market. It's just criminal. I'll also give credit to the Trump administration for taking some action on this matter, even though Trump's executive action faces an uphill battle:

Trump Signs New Executive Order On Prescription Drug Prices

A Department of Health and Human Services official said the agency "doesn't comment on the rulemaking process" when asked how soon this could take effect and what testing a payment model looks like in practice.

"The president may be frustrated that he didn't reach a deal with drugmakers as his announced action is merely a demonstration, and it is very hard to see how it could have any impact in the near future," said Ian Spatz, a health policy consultant and former drug company executive.

For a president who prides himself on his deal-making skills, the month and a half since he first signed an order on drug pricing is ending without a deal.

Props to the president for at least trying, I'll give him credit for this. Unfortunately the drug companies have a stranglehold on DC, and it's going to take more Americans to stand up against this injustice. If we don't, we'll continue to see stories like the woman being charged $32,093 just to give birth, or a single Epipen costing the average allergy sufferer $300, where it would typically cost $38 elsewhere in the world. The system is a mess.

More needs to be done.

Its videos like this that prove to me more and more everyday how many greedy evil rich there are in this country.
Anything to make a buck over human lives.

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Southern Guardian

I have never understood how they get away with charging magnitudes more in the US, for the exact same "pill"!

Lobbyists pay off politicians to look the other way.
Also a big problem is industry insiders go into politics to work for their industry.
No conflict of interest there......

originally posted by: xuenchen
This what happens when insurance companies and governments start paying for prescriptions 🤫

Under Capitalism, price negotiations is healthy part of price discovery.
The politicians wanted to negotiate drug prices and the industry lobbyists and lawyers said no can do.

originally posted by: vonclod
I wonder what the whole of big pharma spends a year on lobbyists?

www.opensecrets.org...


Lobbying by Industry and top spenders.
Look who is at the top.


Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $4,519,440,657
Insurance $3,010,300,385
Electric Utilities $2,587,377,753
Electronics Mfg & Equip $2,534,629,311
Business Associations $2,479,021,087
Oil & Gas $2,340,922,712
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,902,984,529
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,821,127,733
Education $1,794,743,852
Securities & Investment $1,748,472,878
Real Estate $1,741,385,344
Telecom Services $1,737,380,944
Health Professionals $1,646,898,562
Air Transport $1,617,836,750
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,600,310,780
Health Services/HMOs $1,289,788,854
Automotive $1,232,838,713
Defense Aerospace $1,178,789,611
Misc Issues $1,162,710,367
TV/Movies/Music $1,146,391,943

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: LookingAtMars

I dont agree with it but as I heard one time it takes a couple billion to take a drug from idea to market, since most of the western world has legal limits on what they can charge, the US is one of the last to consider it.

Since the average drug only has about 10 years of marketability to make that money back, since everyone else says only a buck a pill or whatever they have to go to other areas to try and make that money back.

I dont like it, but there has to be some money coming in to fund the research and development.

Since the rest of the west rushed to mandate prices, we got hosed but hey europe has theirs they can continue to look down on us for funding their cheap drugs.

Not buying the "billions to market" narrative. There's likely a very good reason not a single one of these companies have ever actually published their costs.

Makes it impossible to know. Fortunately for them though, there are no shortage of "studies" that benefit them.

Despite the data not being public. Like I said, we probably deserve it.

The median cost to bring a drug to market is $1 billion...

Cost to Bring Drug to Market

In this study, which included 63 of 355 new therapeutic drugs and biologic agents approved by the US Food and Drug Administration between 2009 and 2018, the estimated median capitalized research and development cost per product was $985 million, counting expenditures on failed trials.

The data is public in that most pharma companies are publicly traded. You can easily look up the R&D expenditures on a companies SEC 10k filing.

The industry spends more on marketing and paying off politicians than they do on R&D.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Big pharmaceutical companies are spending far more on marketing than research

Oliver also mentioned that nine out of 10 big pharmaceutical companies spend more on marketing than on research. León Markovitz of Dadaviz found and graphed those figures from healthcare research firm GlobalData in the graphic below. The amounts spent on sales and marketing are shown in orange, while the amounts spent on research and development are in blue.

The biggest spender, Johnson & Johnson, shelled out $17.5 billion on sales and marketing in 2013, compared with $8.2 billion for R&D.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Edumakated

Edumakated....

I understand we've had plenty of disagreements. I know where you stand when it comes to the free market, your views on regulations and beliefs in their negative effects. I get it, you may disagree this is 100% you. That's fine. Just one question. Do you believe the actions of this drug company is justified? Personally? Whether you believe they're legally right, let's put that a side. You think they're justified in just raising their prices like this? Outside of profit making?

Look, it is business, not personal. They obviously felt the drug was worth more and hence raised the price. That is a business decision they made. You have to take the emotion out of the decision.

If you want to get emotional about it then we could also argue the price of the drug should be zero. Why was it ok at $200? Wouldn't you then argue it should be $100? Unless it is free, there is always going to be someone who thinks the price is too high.

If you feel pharma companies are gouging, then by all means launch your own pharma company and undercut the competition. In a free market, if there are excess profits being made, then competitors will quickly enter a market. So put up the cash, do the research, and launch a competing product and you can explain to your Board of Directors why you think the street price should only be $5/pill Hopefully, it will cover your costs.

In a free market, there would not be decade long patents backed by government force.
I could reverse engineer these 1000 dollar pills and sell them for 5 bucks.
A lot of these companies will buy the rights to generic drugs, rebrand it with a patent and raise the price 1000%.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

While watching this remember the USA paid 3 billion dollars to do the research on this medication

Love seeing these SOB's squirm. As I mentioned in another thread....if only the Democrats had passed a law making health care affordable or something....

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Edumakated

Edumakated....

I understand we've had plenty of disagreements. I know where you stand when it comes to the free market, your views on regulations and beliefs in their negative effects. I get it, you may disagree this is 100% you. That's fine. Just one question. Do you believe the actions of this drug company is justified? Personally? Whether you believe they're legally right, let's put that a side. You think they're justified in just raising their prices like this? Outside of profit making?

Look, it is business, not personal. They obviously felt the drug was worth more and hence raised the price. That is a business decision they made. You have to take the emotion out of the decision.

If you want to get emotional about it then we could also argue the price of the drug should be zero. Why was it ok at $200? Wouldn't you then argue it should be $100? Unless it is free, there is always going to be someone who thinks the price is too high.

If you feel pharma companies are gouging, then by all means launch your own pharma company and undercut the competition. In a free market, if there are excess profits being made, then competitors will quickly enter a market. So put up the cash, do the research, and launch a competing product and you can explain to your Board of Directors why you think the street price should only be $5/pill Hopefully, it will cover your costs.

In a free market, there would not be decade long patents backed by government force.
I could reverse engineer these 1000 dollar pills and sell them for 5 bucks.
A lot of these companies will buy the rights to generic drugs, rebrand it with a patent and raise the price 1000%.

Wrong. Patents are what protect the intellectual property and encourage a company to spend hundreds if not billions on developing a drug (or any product for that matter). No company is going to invest money doing R&D only to have a competitor steal their intellectual property.

Otherwise you get a situation like china where counterfeiting is common place and they have little true innovation. The just steal everyone else's stuff.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Edumakated

Edumakated....

I understand we've had plenty of disagreements. I know where you stand when it comes to the free market, your views on regulations and beliefs in their negative effects. I get it, you may disagree this is 100% you. That's fine. Just one question. Do you believe the actions of this drug company is justified? Personally? Whether you believe they're legally right, let's put that a side. You think they're justified in just raising their prices like this? Outside of profit making?

Look, it is business, not personal. They obviously felt the drug was worth more and hence raised the price. That is a business decision they made. You have to take the emotion out of the decision.

If you want to get emotional about it then we could also argue the price of the drug should be zero. Why was it ok at $200? Wouldn't you then argue it should be $100? Unless it is free, there is always going to be someone who thinks the price is too high.

If you feel pharma companies are gouging, then by all means launch your own pharma company and undercut the competition. In a free market, if there are excess profits being made, then competitors will quickly enter a market. So put up the cash, do the research, and launch a competing product and you can explain to your Board of Directors why you think the street price should only be $5/pill Hopefully, it will cover your costs.

In a free market, there would not be decade long patents backed by government force.
I could reverse engineer these 1000 dollar pills and sell them for 5 bucks.
A lot of these companies will buy the rights to generic drugs, rebrand it with a patent and raise the price 1000%.

Wrong. Patents are what protect the intellectual property and encourage a company to spend hundreds if not billions on developing a drug (or any product for that matter). No company is going to invest money doing R&D only to have a competitor steal their intellectual property.

Otherwise you get a situation like china where counterfeiting is common place and they have little true innovation. The just steal everyone else's stuff.

Patents are abused in this country to milk the consumer well after the product R&D has been paid for.

This kind of thing is #ty, but isn't capitalism and screwing over your fellow man for a dollar something that is celebrated and encouraged in the U.S?

Well that's at least what most Americans tell me when I bring up ridiculous pricing of things. Along with "it's called supply and demand"

God humans are such a stupid species.

Amazes me how such concepts even exist in this day and age. I was definitely born to the wrong species on the wrong planet. Be nice to wake up one day and not feel like Mr Spock sitting in a room full of chimps.

Seriously, why are humans just so.... nasty?

Working together and progressing as a species for the good of all really is just beyond most of us isn't it?

And yet being able to see through all the bull# games and not being willing to participate in them gets people like me labelled as Autistic. LOL

Man, if only things worked the way we're told they're supposed to work. We'd all be happy.

I dont get many Posters here?
I thought America was all about capitalism ? The idea of Bringa product to market charge as much as you can then make a Billion dollars Like Trump ?
You do Know Trump him self Invested heavily into the company's that are making a vaccine for the virus right ?

I though The RIGHT love and want It to be about how much people can pay ? No free rides for the poor heck with them if they can afford 900 $ pills they die isn't That the Rights mottos ?

O and you really expect Trump a BILLIONAIR to enact price controls of of Business he makes Money from ?
Anyway Get real Demarcates get pay offs from big pharm and Trump OWES some of big pharm .
Any program that Lowers the cost ( COST them all MONEY )