Russia's new generation TFV will enter service.

Originally posted by rapier28
Oooo....

This is the first time i've ever heard about those cities...

Please tell me more. What are there?

all i know about this issue, is that they are lcoated under mountains..

Its Quite common for a Normal person to be ignorant about these cities ...that's why they are called SECRET cities

here is an extract from
Analysis of Strategic ThreatsIn the Current Decade(2000-2010)
Updated May 2004

By Joel M. Skousen

..............."Further, the Russians are building huge underground nuclear bunkers and weapons production facilities in the Ural Mountains, clearly intended to function during a nuclear war. "Yamantau Mountain is the largest nuclear-secure project in the world," said US Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md). "They have very large train tracks running in and out of it [actually 5 tracks wide], with enormous rooms carved inside the mountain. It has been built to resist a half dozen direct nuclear hits, one after the other in a direct hole. It's very disquieting that the Russians are doing this when they [supposedly] don't have $200 million to build the service module on the international space station and can't pay housing for their own military people." Ken Timmerman, one of the best sources of information on the subject says, "The Russians have constructed two entire cities over the site, known as Beloretsk 15 & 16, which are closed to the public, each with 30,000 workers. No foreigner has ever set foot near the site. A US military attaché stationed in Moscow was turned back when he attempted to visit the region a few years ago..."
In public testimony before a House Armed Services Subcommittee last October, KGB defector Col. Oleg Gordievsky said the KGB had maintained a separate, top-secret organization, known as Directorate 15, to build and maintain a network of underground command bunkers for the Soviet leadership -- including the vast site beneath Yamantau Mountain. When pictures of this complex were published on the front page of the New York Times in 1996, the CIA was asked to respond. Keeping pace with the long standing secret government policy to protect Americans from any information that would point to a Russian threat, the CIA spokesman said the agency wasn't worried--the huge Russian facility was purely "defensive." How do they know that when they admit that no US official has ever visited the site?
In 1998, US Strategic Commander (STRATCOM) General Eugene Habiger, the same naive commander who took part in the NPR propaganda documentary Missiliers, called Yamantau "a very large complex -- we estimate that it has millions of square feet available for underground facilities. We don't have a clue as to what they're doing there." No clue, general? Not even one clue? People this stupid obviously get to be generals because they are predictable yes-men in a military determined to purge out any future George Pattons or Douglas MacArthurs. I noticed in Missiliers that Habiger never mentioned the Russian military's refusal to answer questions about Yamantau Mountain as he waxed eloquent about the deep camaraderie and trust he felt with his Russian military counterparts. If this is the best general we can find to head STRATCOM, the US is in mortal danger.
The Yamantau Mountain complex is not far from Russia's main nuclear weapons lab facility, Chelyabinsk-70. Honest military analysts suspect that Yamantau's huge 400-square-mile underground complex houses nuclear warhead and missile storage sites, launch control, and several full-blown nuclear weapons factories--all designed to continue production after a nuclear war begins. The US has no equivalent to such extensive protected production facilities. According to Ken Timmerman, the Russian government has provided no fewer than 12 separate and contradictory explanations for the site, none of which are believed to be credible.
Russia also has a massive national command and control system dispersed among three different hardened underground locations. Besides Yamantau Mountain, there is the Yavinsky Mountain underground complex and the Sherapovo bunker site, south of Moscow. Sherapovo is the primary command center for Russia's "civilian" leaders. The Kremlin is connected to Sherapovo and other bunkers by a secret subway line. Once at Sherapovo, they can conduct the war effort using a highly redundant communications system "allowing the leadership to send orders and receive reports through the wartime management structure," according to a 1988 Pentagon report.""

Yamantau Mountain complex:
From GlobalSecurity.org

Nothing on Yavinsky Mountain underground complex.

Though this (linked below) may be of interest (near bottom of the page)...:
MOUNT WEATHER UNDERGROUND COMPLEX

Also of note from the JoelSkousen.com site:

The Yamantau Mountain complex is not far from Russia's main nuclear weapons lab facility, Chelyabinsk-70. Honest military analysts suspect that Yamantau's huge 400-square-mile underground complex houses nuclear warhead and missile storage sites, launch control, and several full-blown nuclear weapons factories--all designed to continue production after a nuclear war begins

Inside Russia's magic mountain
Inside Russia's Magic Mountain2


Seems to be not so secret.





seekerof

Originally posted by Hellraiser

Originally posted by Seekerof
Your constructive criticism aside, Hellraiser, apparently I must be correct in my above analysis being that you did not counter it?
whatever you say...

I guess this Russian TFV will be regulated to those other great and wonderful Russian programs that amounted to mere prototypes and scant minimal production runs.
yeah too bad its beyond the prototype stage and cost half the price of a t90 and even less to just upgrade existing t72s

BTW, I'll take 160+ 'Raptors' any day over those non-produced Mig-1.42's, the Berkut, the fabled Black Eagle MBTs, etc., etc., and etc.
yeah do not forget to add your super next generation commanch

, your crusader arty, your JCM, your LOSAT, etc etc..

, hell even f22 may be canceled soon

"To pay for the war, the Pentagon also may have to scrap a $71 billion program to acquire F/A-22 fighter jets built by Lockheed Martin Corp. as part of a wider overhaul of U.S. spending priorities, said McCain, an influential member of the Armed Services Committee.

"We may have to cancel this airplane that's going to cost between $250 million and $300 million a copy," said McCain, who spearheaded a drive that stalled another multibillion-dollar Air Force project involving leasing or buying modified Boeing Co. refueling planes. "



also its impractical for russia to buy 70$ million per aircraft right now (mig-39) as it can just upgrade the existing fleet with new generation avionics/weapons etc.. which is what russia doing and there are already more then 100 upgraded sukhois alone not to mention the helicopter fleet..
I'll take those Bradley's and Strikers over 20-less than 60 hours flight time and training for those Russian pilots and continuing to rust,
what that doesn't make sense strykers and bradleys dont fly seeker and also stryker is a piece of crap as you may see by the pdf i provided, bradley isnt even amphibious and sucks in TTHOUSANDS about 25,000$ a month on just maintaining its tracks

Russian naval vessels.enough to nuke your cvg's to hell and back The S-300 and S-400 anti-air systems have been compromised.oh no you got crappy 70's/80's era pmus what shall russia do

still has a real air defence umbrella unlike a few non functional star wars dreams

Whats left? Rhetoric it seems versus one taking the simple facts as they are.whatever you say

If what I say is in error, then what will be the production numbers of this Russian TFV?i would guess in large number as russia has many t72's left which can be easely upgraded to this

The problem I see when posters post concerning Russian "new" concepts and designs is that they always fail to produce anything that stipulates production numbers. Whys that? I'm all ears and more than willing to see your side of this.

seekerof

also would be sad to see this baby go

Funding curb forces Virginia reality check

By Andrew Koch JDW Bureau Chief
Washington, DC

The long-term health of the US Navy's Virginia-class nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) - one of its most cherished programmes - appears in grave danger because of the growing cost of the war in Iraq, tightening defence budgets and mounting deficits.

According to US Department of Defense (DoD) documents, statements by senior navy officials and insider accounts, a combination of funding shortfalls and pressures from the highest levels of the DoD are moving decision-makers toward the conclusion that the Virginia-class programme should be cancelled well before its planned 30 boats will be built.

Lol! Comanche was scrapped because it wasn't really needed. Crusader was scrapped because it was too heavy for Rumsfeld's faster/more manuverable military. Besides, a bunch of things from Crusader will be in it's FCS variant. The Army is considering keeping the JCM alive. And LOSSAT was over-kill. It was too big, and 15 times more deadly than the world's current most deadly anti-tank weapon. They are testing a smaller version called CKEM, which will replace TOW. F/A-22 won't be cancelled. Progress reports say one F/A-22 can shoot down up to eight F-15s, and thats without using it's gun. 180 F/A-22s = 1440 or more downed bandits. I have even read that the Air Force is thinking about going back to buying 267 F/A-22s... Stryker will get stronger yet lighter armor in the near future. And it was never meant to be a fighting vehicle. And Bradley will be replaced by it's FCS variant.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by NWguy83]

I always consider the US army as overrated. Why? Well often they said our tanks were better our guns are better.

The F22 might be the fighter but i doubt its lead is so much that only so little F22's can shoot down 1400 aircraft.

About LOSAT.. I really doubt that it uses Kinetic energy only

You need higher speeds to achieve such effect only with kinetics...

And what about the Fuel? That's not counted as an explosive

As for the cities - Yes, they are basically "Underground towns", Switzerland has a few too but these are more advanced.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
I always consider the US army as overrated. Why? Well often they said our tanks were better our guns are better.

The F22 might be the fighter but i doubt its lead is so much that only so little F22's can shoot down 1400 aircraft.

Abrams are good, but M16s and M4s are kind of weak.


F/A-22 Status Report

Air Force Magazine


The F/A-22 continues to excel in operational testing at Nellis AFB, Nev., winning lopsided victories in contests in which it has sometimes been outnumbered 8-to-1 by F-15s. Plans called for the classified tests to conclude in August. A report on whether the F/A-22 meets requirements for operational deployment is due in December.

The first operational F/A-22s are to be delivered in May 2005 to Langley AFB, Va. That’s about five months later than planned, but the change was made to allow prime contractor Lockheed Martin to incorporate any changes dictated by the operational flight tests.

Initial operational capability for the Raptor is set for December 2005. However, Marvin R. Sambur, USAF’s top acquisition executive, said in May that this date may slip “a couple of months.”

In January, the Pentagon will determine if the aircraft is ready to enter full-rate production, currently set at a maximum of 38 F/A-22s per year.

The Air Force wants to build a total of 381 F/A-22s, but service officials admit they can only afford about 277 under the cost cap mandated by DOD. An additional cost cap imposed by Congress would limit the Raptor fleet to only 218 aircraft.

But that isnt in a real war.

is anyone still not worried about the "training excercises" between these 2 countries?

This is beyond the technology and who can kill who faster and more efficeintly. China and Russia may be planning exactly what is spoken.

Read the "Art of war". Watch your opponet and let them spread thin and show thier specialties and weaknesses. THe US has done this for 10 years since the first gulf war,.and the rest of the world has had those 10 years to play catchupanalyze, plan, and it is about to bite us in the ass.

If an enemy is spread thin, as we are in Iraq and Afghanistan , it is easier to launch an immediate frontal assualt, such as an invasion of tiawan, or maybe they stroll into NK. Who do you think supply the north in that conflict?? One that we almost lost, but all people remember is Hawkeye from MASH.

When all is said and done, a war is won by one man with a rifle (even an M-14) or a one man with a button, and then we all lose.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by esdad71]

You are forgetting that the US is holding training exercises with South Korea.

Training exercises are a good method to alleviate mutual suspicion between militaries. For example, China has held training exercises with India and Pakistan recently.

Prelude, thanks for sharing!

I'm waiting for more info

-Bump-

Any more news on this topic?

BMPT is a fine vehicle, very well suited for urban warfare, but other warfares as well. It will make a good body guard for the T-90 tank. I believe the T-90 should get enhanced protection like the BMPT has. The BMPT chasis is based on elements of both T-72 and T-90, plus additional protection. It is armed with a twin 30 mm cannon as seen on BMP-2 and Ka-50, 4 Ataka missiles as seen on the Mi-28, 2 AGS-17 automatic grenade launchers, and a PK machine gun made for vehicles.

Only addition i would have made to that desing would be a 12,7mm or 7,62mm Machine gun in a overhead station on top of that turret to give it another independent 360 degree ability. Now it only has a frontal arch coverage + one diretion where the turret is facing. CROWS type of MG (like israeli Rafael) would give it an ability to protect its rear and flanks, while main turret is engaging targets...

The turret can face the back, and there will still be the 2 automatic grenade launchers to protect the front.

reply to post by Russian soldier


I know that the turret can rotate 360 degrees, but i'd be happier if i had another freely rotating MG above it. It would inrease survivability in urban ops with very little additional weight (

reply to post by gooseuk


this machine will encorporate the latest in technology..computer..fire control..advanced weaponry.. communications...i think thats high tech buddy.

Easiest way to stop a Russian attack force:

Airdrop these ahead of the advancing columns

[Spoiler][/spoiler]

Originally posted by SGI506
Easiest way to stop a Russian attack force:

Airdrop these ahead of the advancing columns

[Spoiler][/spoiler]

Hahahahahaha! You damn right! Good one, thanks!