Making Sense of the Issue of the Day - RBG

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

In the vein of "you cannot govern the unwilling", if people do not agree with a law, its completely relevant. Not wearing a mask is known as "civil disobedience" and is the most American thing someone can do. When Rosa Parks did it, she changed the entire nation.

Which is interesting, as Rosa Parks was actually the first woman to lie in state in the US. Not RBG, as media seems to want to claim.

Again — I’m only addressing the original claim that they were arrested for being Christian in public.

They weren’t. They were arrested for not wearing masks.

a reply to: Annee

Really, it's not taking much bending on my part. Everything seems to be fitting quite well.

Back to original claim: arrested for being Christian in public.

Wrong.

FACT: arrested for not wearing mask in public. As ordered by mayor. Who has that right, whether you want to accept it or not.

The charge was not wearing a face mask in public. But the order (not a law) specified that a mask is not required if social distancing is maintained, which it was. Therefore there was no violation of the order, leading to a suspicion that there was another reason for the arrest.

And again, the order was not a law. No mayor has the right to enact law unilaterally. Kings do that, not mayors. If a mayor, as head of a city executive department, can make a law unilaterally, then the President, as head of the Federal executive departments, can order a law unilaterally... Trump can make abortion illegal tomorrow according to that.

Legal principles do not only apply to those things you agree with. Be careful what you ask for.

TheRedneck

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Rosa Parks was not a contagion that killed people.

Let’s compare it to the riots instead.

If we killed all the rioters in the beginning, the riots would not have spread.

If everyone had complied with mask wearing from the beginning, the virus would not have spread.

I am a practical realist.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee

Really, it's not taking much bending on my part. Everything seems to be fitting quite well.

Back to original claim: arrested for being Christian in public.

Wrong.

FACT: arrested for not wearing mask in public. As ordered by mayor. Who has that right, whether you want to accept it or not.

The charge was not wearing a face mask in public. But the order (not a law) specified that a mask is not required if social distancing is maintained, which it was. Therefore there was no violation of the order, leading to a suspicion that there was another reason for the arrest.

And again, the order was not a law. No mayor has the right to enact law unilaterally. Kings do that, not mayors. If a mayor, as head of a city executive department, can make a law unilaterally, then the President, as head of the Federal executive departments, can order a law unilaterally... Trump can make abortion illegal tomorrow according to that.

Legal principles do not only apply to those things you agree with. Be careful what you ask for.

TheRedneck

They were arrested for not wearing a mask.

That is FACT.

You can talk til you’re blue in the face.

Does not change FACT.

a reply to: Annee

If we killed all the rioters in the beginning, the riots would not have spread.

If everyone had complied with mask wearing from the beginning, the virus would not have spread.

I am a practical realist.

There is no evidence that killing all rioters in the beginning would not have caused more people to become riotous.

There is no evidence that wearing cloth face masks has prevented a single case of infection.

"Practical realist"... I take it that is the new woke term for "confused"?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Rosa Parks was not a contagion that killed people.

Let’s compare it to the riots instead.

If we killed all the rioters in the beginning, the riots would not have spread.

If everyone had complied with mask wearing from the beginning, the virus would not have spread.

I am a practical realist.

If Fauci hadn't lied about the need for masks, perhaps it wouldn't have spread. OSHA's guidelines on masks kind of speak volumes there. N95 masks....completely unfiltered air outflow. No one has been warned that this mask does nothing to protect others.

You are trying to delineate which civil disobedience is worthy and which is not. I do not think that is a viable approach as it seems to allow for partisan skewing. The fact remains that civil disobedience is as American as any behavior you can find. Not wearing a mask is civil disobedience. It is telling the governing body that you, the governed party, are not willing to be governed. That is protest in its most true essence. And im sure i am not the first to ascribe a First Amendment protection to mask wearing, as all forms of self expression are forbidden to be governed.

If we were doing this the right way, folks who prefer masks would simply avoid those who don't. That would allow the greatest level of freedom.

For a fun experiment, check out which states have forbidden high school football. Then compare that map to the "red states" that voted for Trump. You will notice a marked similarity. This tells me the whole virus response is 100% political.

a reply to: Annee

They were arrested for not wearing a mask.

That is FACT.

They were not in violation of any law.

That is FACT.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee

They were arrested for not wearing a mask.

That is FACT.

They were not in violation of any law.

That is FACT.

TheRedneck

They were in violation of the mayors order.

He has the authority to make that order.

He has the authority to act in it.

Which he did.

Again — they were not arrested because for being Christian.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh, come on. I know you’re smarter than that.

Fauci did not lie.

Science evolves. They are still learning about this virus.

As it turns out, they were right from the beginning that it’s airborne.

a reply to: Annee

They were in violation of the mayors order.

No. They were social distancing. The order made that an exception.

He has the authority to make that order.

No. He is not a King.

The legislature has the authority to make that law.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Annee

Science evolves. They are still learning about this virus.

But the science is settled on face masks?

Because you agree?

I think you're "being a practical realist" (read: "are confused") again.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh, come on. I know you’re smarter than that.

Fauci did not lie.

Science evolves. They are still learning about this virus.

As it turns out, they were right from the beginning that it’s airborne.

No, he lied. Flat out. His reason was that he didn't want people coming to buy out facemasks that might be in limited supply for medical personnel. Although honestly, him and POTUS just telling people that fact, then instructing on how ot make cloth masks would have likely went over just fine.

www.businessinsider.com...

Obviously this was forgotten, and then pushed under the rug in favor of the "Its all Trumps fault" argument being made for the election.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says he doesn't regret joining other the Trump administration's other public health experts in advising Americans against wearing masks early on in the COVID-19 pandemic.

He doesn't regret the tens of thousands he led to their death.

"I don't regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs and masks for the health providers who are putting themselves in harm's way every day to take care of sick people," Fauci told O'Donnell.

Despite absolutely no efforts to advise the public. Lying to them was the only way to achieve his goal.

I'd like to think more highly of this guy....but honestly, he admits to lying about something that, today, he feels very strongly about. Had he taken the correct action then, he may have contained the virus in the "2 weeks to flatten the curve" phase. Lying is never the right call.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I’ve read the spin on the “red” sites. It is some serious spin.

I try to read everything before making my own choice of what to “believe”, and accept as closest to truth.

There’s lies and then there’s reason of choice.

Since hospitals did run out of supplies, I say Fauci was right in his reason of choice on what to make public.

Re: Trump. We don’t want to go there.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I’ve read the spin on the “red” sites. It is some serious spin.

I try to read everything before making my own choice of what to “believe”, and accept as closest to truth.

There’s lies and then there’s reason of choice.

Since hospitals did run out of supplies, I say Fauci was right in his reason of choice on what to make public.

Re: Trump. We don’t want to go there.

I say he effed up. You don't lie to the public and treat them as children. You tell the truth, and let people make choices.

Saying, "We need to retain PPE for hospital staff, and we encourage the public to make masks following designs we have made available at (insert website here)" is leadership. Because of his lie, the most critical time to control the spread was blown and it grew exponentially. How many people died because of that lie, that lapse in judgement?

And today, how many people balk at mask wearing because they know that Fauci didn't have his crap together and was saying stuff that contradicted?

I have no idea what the political leanings of Business Insider are. But I did copy his actual quotes, which indicate what I allege to be absolutely true: he lied to the American people while we still had a chance to contain. For whatever reason, he lied and it cost actual lives.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Because I’m a logical, practical, thinker — we’re going to have a different perception on this.

The Right claims personal responsibility. They could have taken that position on mask wearing. But, no — they are the ones mostly objecting. Then blaming others.

The Right is very contrary in what they spout — in contrast to their actions.

Anyway, really have to cut off here. Need to take nap (I’m actually in bed. Should not be here). Company coming for weekend. Sorry, about leaving debate short. Again.