Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

Hi Chris. I knew a lot of "Chris" folks back then in the forums and can't help but wonder if you were one of them. :-)

I've got some editing work to do on some non-conspiracy sites tonight but I'll try to take some time to answer your questions the best I can:

0) what was the degenerative brain disease you once posted about that was mentioned to you?

Prion disease. Kit had mentioned to Steve and I on the phone that he was doing MRI scans on people who were "very, very, sick" - and he showed us an example brain scan. He (as usual) was really vague and wouldn't say what it was. I knew of Colm Kelleher and that Kelleher had just published Brain Trust in 2004, and that Hal and Kit are friends with Colm, so I assumed this was some kind of promotion of Kelleher's work. Essentially saying there's something darker and more sinister that hadn't been made public yet. That rabbit hole ended when Colm refused an interview *through Kit* -- I'm not actually sure Colm was ever actually contacted, to be honest. And I never reached out myself because by that time Steve and I both realized it was just a dead-end rabbit hole.

1) Do you think Serpo might have been espionage via the spelling mistakes (encoding)?

Serpo came from Rick Doty, who was also the source of the info to Bill Moore with identical messaging, elements, etc (which actually matched a lot of things that came out during the whole MJ-12 saga btw).

So no, I unequivocally do not believe it was espionage. I don't believe it came from anyone other than the people (all civilians) involved in disseminating the story - we wrote a whole series of articles providing the evidence proving that. As to the "why" they did it, Steve and I certainly had our theory and were pretty public about it (the usual gathering of wealthy believers for money/funding). Do I still believe that's the case?

As I get older and continued observing their activities (as much as one can when so much of what they do is done in secret), I've started to wonder more about motives. Because I actually think they're truly believers in things like the reality of parapsychology and psychic abilities. With true believers, in my opinion, it's harder to nail down motives than it is with someone like skeptical hoaxers who are just doing it to show how stupid the Ufology community is.

2) Back during Serpo did you find Dr Green had changed his mind and believed that everything was black projects? That seems to have been a sea change in his views and I’m not sure when.

I really wasn't expecting to have to discuss Serpo here. I figured everyone knew that it was a hoax and it was long history by now.

In 2011 he claimed to have put "30 folks on my 'spam' list in my email". I took that as him saying he was going dark for a while at that point. But - Dr. Green has never changed his public story. If you reached out to him today and asked him what he believes, he will copy and paste some version of the text below to you. It'll likely match, almost word for word. I've actually seen copies from other researchers. To save you the time (and keep his inbox clean), I'll paste it here:

"I've been told by people more senior than me that there is some truth to it, but they told me time and time again to stop pursuing it with CIA people and other Intel types. Two very senior officials told me they saw briefing books, the only ones who would ever be cleared to know the story are the most senior Pentagon career officers."

The "it" is the UFO/Alien core story (crashed disks/bodies/etc). Since the text above has been copy and pasted in emails to multiple people I know who've emailed Kit, I assume it's his go-to story for anyone who asks what he knows about UFOs/aliens (because my guess is he gets asked a lot...lol).

I believe Kit is very much a believer and always has been. When I interviewed Ron Pandolfi about Kit he confirmed this.

3) Do you think Serpo might have been a left over of a some sort from a 1960s science fiction / MJ12 playbook that was never deployed?

Yes - I do believe it's part of a "story" that some people have attempted to inject into the public consciousness since the 1980s, the formation/elements of it likely came from the PSI research during the 1970s. My personal theory about the "core story" is almost firmed up but I still feel like there are lots of holes so wouldn't want to go into it in detail yet - that's actually one of the reasons I'm here asking if anyone knows about the source of this leaked audio between Kit and his psychic contractor as part of his most recent research. I believe this research is an important key to understanding the ultimate motivations.

Unfortunately, I've discovered that at least one of the folks who published the transcripts is a believer so will never help me out with confirming the source and getting the actual audio.


a reply to: ctj83

a reply to: mirageman

BTW - my apologies for sidetracking your thread - I've read through it and am really impressed by how much you've collected here. Just like in the 70's through the 90's when there were a number of people in military/government who were believers in positions to offer contracts to these folks, there are still some today: www.vice.com...

I've honestly never seen anyone as diligent and aggressive as Greenwald in digging like he does, the guy is a bulldog. I love it.

Also to those of you who've messaged me, I received your messages (thank you!) but the system won't let me respond to anyone but ATS staff at the moment. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you.

Wish I could have logged in with my old account but it must have been deleted or expired. Had some really cool badges on that thing...haha!

a reply to: RyanDube

Thanks Ryan. I’m another Chris, only got interested in this five years ago. Kinda left 2018 / 2019.

I’m well aware SERPO was a hoax and your work, but there is the odd thing about Victor being told not to keep altering spelling and grammar.

As regards Dr Green changing his mind:
Forbidden Science 3 and 4 show that he was almost inducted several times into “the group”. He was shown alien autopsy photos and possibly medical papers. He was also shown alledged alien tissue and a paper on that. He ran it past the head of that National Research Council who proclaimed it a scam, but a sophisticated one.

Some of the terms in that paper were later to become established scientific terms.

Dr Green said to Dolan he believes he was shown photos of Progeriacs, not aliens now.

In a set of emails that leaked via IMGUR on the Alien Autopsy, Dr Green states that he’s seen certain shots of the Alien Autopsy film before.

In a recent interview with Richard Dolan, Dr Green explained that he thinks the group he encountered was a techno scam.

a reply to: RyanDube

From what I was told, the identity is known but they don't want publicly, so I don't think it should be shared here.

I'd take that leak was being a form of publicity seeking.

a reply to: RyanDube

check your inbox

a reply to: RyanDube

I dont think an apology is needed for "sidetracking the thread" - the topics you have touched on, I believe at least - rest at the core of the issue of this whole thing. Rather than the Dennys "Core Story" (Crashes, Bodies, Disks) as reported or "Core Secrets" as others would believe - it's the original Core Lie at the centre of all of this.

We have intelligence community members: who quite frankly have been caught up and out (SERPO as one example - Alien Autospys being another)- in strange goings on, believe in what appear to be very strange things - and are seemingly always in the midst or connected to; a UFO story. Those that are close to a UFO story that are military/intelligence/contractor always seem to fall into the net of these spooks as well. Cash Landrum / Rendlesham / Nimitz etc.

TTSA is different to its previous incarnations, going back to John Alexanders ATP being the first, but I think thats because the world has changed and lie needs to evolve to reflect that, the old lies dont "stick" like they used to and need a firmware update every so often.

TTSA/Bigelow and all the rest - to keep this on track - again are just newer/older versions of the same old lie; BUT with the same old cooky spooks attached to it and/or associated in some way - Hal being more centre stage than Kit Green at this point.

I will disagree with you to a point though Ryan, I dont profess to know the answer of course, I have no snakeoil to sell here - but I think whats going on here is more than just a reboot of Remote Viewing or SRI 2.0

What that is? We can only speculate...

I agree with everything you've said. And I don't think we disagree on the last part either.

What I meant was what they're doing has a similar outcome on the surface- achieving funding by private believers (investors), and achieving military contracts from believers inside of the intelligence and military communities. I agree with you that they've upgraded their overall system and are trying a new approach where it comes to public interaction. The overall motivation is what has always been so intriguing to me.

As my favorite Al Pacino quote goes, "If I were the man I was five years ago, I'd take a flamethrower to this place!" -- "this place" being TTSA.

I am hopeful that there is a researcher out there (maybe even reading this) who has the capacity, intelligence, and tenacity to find a back door into TTSA and gain a peek behind closed doors and eventually blow this new show into oblivion. But also has the patience and wisdom this time to only do so only *after* ascertaining the motivations. Not before!







a reply to: pigsy2400

a reply to: RyanDube

It's an interesting thought and I can tell from your earlier post, that you wish you had waited a little longer with the Serpo stuff.

However, as I said - the evolution of TTSA means I think, that its too late for any "internal" snooping to happen. The audience that has been created (not grown) is very much under the control of TTSA, albeit not directly and the person at the helm of that is George Knapp. Tom DeLonge stated as such in the leaked Podesta emails. "Directing the message towards the Youth". Isnt is cute how Knapp now interviews these "Young Guns" on shows like Coast 2 Coast? Coincidence?

Indeed....

The loud "Young Gun TTSA Social Media Darlings" that shout up anything Pro-TTSA related and also shout down anything negative; are a carefully created and curated bunch, we have had a few of the visit here on occassion - and probably quite recently too looking at some of the other posters. There are very few of them that existed in this field prior to TTSA, not even a whisper...

My point being - if anyone did manage to infilitrate them at any level, the amount of "noise" that would be created to drown out any of what was uncovered would be huge - and peoples opinions probably wouldn't change. The divisions in Ufology have been dug even deeper and opinons and perspectives are more entrenched than they ever have been.

Ufology used to be a hunt for a hidden truth - even though people were not sure if there really was a truth to disclose. Now, people believe in the answer with an almost religious fantasticm - regardless if the question is debunked or not. The lines of division have been deepened, artificially so I would suggest - to reinforce my previous point and to ultimatley protect the Op, which means controlling the narrative that the Op relies on.

a reply to: RyanDube

I am hopeful that there is a researcher out there (maybe even reading this) who has the capacity, intelligence, and tenacity to find a back door into TTSA and gain a peek behind closed doors and eventually blow this new show into oblivion. But also has the patience and wisdom this time to only do so only *after* ascertaining the motivations. Not before!

Oh my , you are funny.

a reply to: RyanDube

The biggest question and the one no one ever seems to ask is why TTSA employed a bunch of alphabet agency neuro-scientists & biologists to their advisory board.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I also think we are slowly seeing the passing of the baton as these old dudes start to lose their feathers and can no longer fly like they once did.

The 'funds' behind the operation - Bigelow has either outlived his usefulness or feels he's finally made enough money out of the MIC His secrets are still being kept. He's sold the ranch and shut down BAASS. Whether Brandon carries on the 'good work' that has always gone on down on the ranch is questionable. But one that needs to be answered.

The 'media propaganda asset' - Knapp seems to be happy to hand over the reigns to Jeremy Clarkson Heather Locklear Grand Canyon Cowbell. A man who is an expert in filming his kitchen, his tattoos and his fine Viking beard. But also insists on injecting himself into interviews because he can. His personality alone is a contraceptive. He is nowhere near the journalist George was. But DeLonge can provide more clout in the 'entertainment' sphere too for the credulous American.

The 'brains' - Green reverts to being the gullible idiot too often. Last year he told Dolan he was mistaken when shown the Alien Autopsy film. That he now believes it was actually footage of a progeria sufferer. Yeh! A six digit creature, whose internal physiology looked nothing like a human being was a sufferer of progeria? And to boot had a dark covering over the eyes. Surely his professional competence needs to be questioned if he really believes that

Even Vallee, who seems to enjoy a fanboy created distance from all the spooks that he eats with, should be questioned. He has been a long term Bigelow adviser and remained so with BAASS until 2019. He is a man who wants to project that UFOs are really some mystical, unfalsifiable mystery. Just in case you no longer 'want to believe'. Can't he just accept that he was wrong and retire? He's never proven anything like his chums. This same bunch of old men who keep telling UFO researchers lies.

So what now for them before they all bite the dust?

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: RyanDube

TTSA is different to its previous incarnations, going back to John Alexanders ATP being the first, but I think thats because the world has changed and lie needs to evolve to reflect that, the old lies dont "stick" like they used to and need a firmware update every so often.

TTSA/Bigelow and all the rest - to keep this on track - again are just newer/older versions of the same old lie; BUT with the same old cooky spooks attached to it and/or associated in some way - Hal being more centre stage than Kit Green at this point.

I will disagree with you to a point though Ryan, I dont profess to know the answer of course, I have no snakeoil to sell here - but I think whats going on here is more than just a reboot of Remote Viewing or SRI 2.0

What that is? We can only speculate...

How do you see Podesta (and the Clintons) fitting into this? From the leaked emails we know he was/is not only a part of forming TTSA but in some ways a driving force behind it. And Podesta was widely seen as either Sec. of State or Attorney General of the United States, had Hillary won in 2016.

edit. Just to drive the point home, they were doing this during the presidential campaign season. With Podesta as the chairman of the campaign. How much clout is Hal, Kit and Knapp supposed to have?

Sublant mentions that John Podesta had aspirations to become Attorney General in 2016. Remembering this fact triggered a small synchronicity for me today because I just commented on mirageman's older thread about Hynek and the 'swamp gas' case at Hillsdale College in 1966. Hillsdale College is the conservative bastion where current Attorney General Wm. Barr recently spoke about his political beliefs. 'UFO intel' and political ambition are tightly linked, probably way more than the average researcher realizes.

a reply to: RyanDube

I'm assuming the MRI's you were shown were from the Experiencer group. For whatever it is worth, here is what I understand of the group which was apparently around 180 people.

1. The number of prodigious savants is grossly over represented in the group of people with encounters
2. All members of the group had to have an encounter around 150ft or less
3. According to Dr Green, people like John Burroughs were exposed to non-ionising radiation which injured due to classical physics but perhaps in unexpected ways. According to Puthoff's earth tech it also comprises Gamma rays.
4. Dr Nolan has postulated a link whereby people with the Antenna are more likely to have partners who also have the antenna
5. There appears to be a familial link with generational experiences

Allegedly Chris Bledsoe was part of the group, although I struggle to understand how he fits the criteria.

The experiencer tape talks about both the "the others", "the aliens" and a base on Catalina Island.

I'm unsure how we balance all of this with:
- The repeated debriefing / inductions Dr Green received in the late 80s / 90s
- The biological tissue and paper that was debunked at a TIGER meeting.
- The radiation exposure of cases such as Cash Landrum, Rendlesham
- The autopsy photos that apparently matched the Alien Autopsy fake film
- SERPO

I think the most logical explanation is that we are looking at the science of delusion and dangerous propulsion.

a reply to: mirageman

It's been a long while since I've been here, so I'll leave my thoughts as to where they got before I gave up on this.

George Knapp
-----------------
Excellent journalist. I do wonder who the 'bar men' were who suggested he go from Berkley to Vegas? I can't figure out why he never decided to look into Patty Hearst who had just vanished from Berkley. Instead he got into the mob, and the ufos and brought some amazing news reporting.

I've wondered if the mission to get Thread 3 was a little ARGO like.

Remote Viewing
--------------------
People won't like this but I think this was an intelligence trap for the soviets. Viewers like Pat Price were reporting to Scientology some of the things that went on in RV sessions. Read the 1983 Penthouse interview with R Hubbards Son. he said that auditing information was supplied to the soviets.

I'd strongly recommend reading Chaos (Dan Piepenbring and Tom O'Neill) - a book about Charles Manson, to find newly uncovered papers by Dr 'Jolly West' that were unknown before his death. As both the monitor of the SRI program, faculty At UC Berkley, and defender of Patty Hearst there's a lot there.

Long story short, I think Remote Viewing was most useful in seeing what people could be made to believe rather than the professed results.

Jeremy Corbel / The Appearing SkinWalker Object
-------------------------------------------------------------
I did a thread on this. I gave Corbel time to look into it before I released my results. It's important to know that he clearly isn't responsible for that clip of the thing that appears on the security camera.

Anyway, it's fake in my opinion . There's an object / artifact that has been removed in that video clip in Corbells documentary. As one of the few concrete pieces of evidence on Skinwalker, I'd dismiss it.

There's a ton of selected or missing data:
- Super fast mutilation. Colm himself identified it was done with scissors and knives. Let that sink in
- The ice circle. Nothing too odd, but you can find NIDS docs showing it was made with tap water
- Camera destruction with nothing filmed doing it. Read Vallee. There was a computer hack at the time.

Other factors, hi ozone level, mineral content of the rocks.

Rendlesham
----------------
I'm pretty sure this is really a case of "work place injury" and ufos are used as a way to talk about a topic without breaking confidentiality.

Bob Lazar
-------------
I'll look forward to George showing us where the E115 is buried. Beyond that, I think Bob is sincere but he doesn't know what happened to him. The yellow pine liquid he was forced to drink, I can't help think might have been DMSO. What that might mean though I have zero clue on.

Tic Tac
----------

Seeded on ATS years ago, I think this is likely a safe, stable version of whatever technology was developed 40 years ago on both sides of the Cold War.

Conclusion
---------------
I came to the conclusion that some dangerous prototype platforms were tested that hurt some people. I sometimes wondered if it was the soviets using it to attempt incursions. I've seen nothing to make me believe in alien visitors.

Remote viewing is more useful as a test of altering beliefs than anything else.

Memes. Meme distribution, diffusion and mutation. Something we all need to understand in the days of weaponised social media.

Anywho... no one asked for it, but that is pretty much my conclusions of a few years in ufology and ATS. I doubt many will like them.

Don’t know if this was mentioned in this trilogy of threads in passing by anyone else, but I’m bummed... I’m just getting wind of it even though announced in April/May. I liked the characters in this version of a blue book series.


Project Blue Book Canceled by History

Source Link: www.denofgeek.com...


The relevant angle to this thread is ..... could the Delonge Show be next?



.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: RyanDube

The biggest question and the one no one ever seems to ask is why TTSA employed a bunch of alphabet agency neuro-scientists & biologists to their advisory board.

The only answer to that is it’s a psyop. Planned when TDL put himself on the line to be exploited by the intelligence community.

The question is which IA runs this. Probably the CIA, but you never know they all may have a rep in this organization riddled with agents and past agents.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Don’t know if this was mentioned in this trilogy of threads in passing by anyone else, but I’m bummed... I’m just getting wind of it even though announced in April/May. I liked the characters in this version of a blue book series.


Project Blue Book Canceled by History

Source Link: www.denofgeek.com...


The relevant angle to this thread is ..... could the Delonge Show be next?



.

The actors should be commended, and I feel bad for them. Both the main characters were exceptional in their roles. Hopefully, their careers will benefit.

But It is a ridiculous proposition by the producers to say this is based on fact.

Sure, the basic themes are factual in the cases involved, but the embellishments are science fiction. And all the extreme theories have been thrown in this story, and therfore it is deceptive to claim its based on facts.

Science fiction is one thing, and facts of history are another. They should not be mixed when we still are investigating the mysteries of UFOs.

That’s why the show was a disservice because the bluebook is factual, but when they embellish it so much, they distort history.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I think Mirage has mentioned that there is evidence in Tom's Wikileaks emails that he was preparing a "youth" lead reach out. Possibly headed by Knapp. I think it's more informal than that, but last year, a "YG" was happy to confirm he'd fact check things with Knapp, which makes sense.

For what it's worth, and nobody asked for this -- but I'll drop a few other conclusions I came to.

Paul Bennewitz
---------------------
I think the timeline is wrong and contact with him started out much further. Much is spoken about Gabe Valdez's role, but I recently learned that he claimed to be able to detect implants within people which has shaken my view of his otherwise skeptical role in the cattle mutilation and Benewitz affair. To be honest, I think it's a "lost in translation" and it relates to the surveillance bugs he found on ranchers and his own property.

There in lies the the rub. I think the Bennewitz affair began because of cattle mutilation NOT ufos. I suspect that Jacques Vallee knows a little more but can't speak due to restrictions. Read anything by him and you can feel the anger at the situation.

Cash Landrum
------------------
IMy own personal viewpoint, as you can read here, is that I think it was the same platform / base technology as Rendlesham and a few others. Hal Puthoff suggests it is due to blueshift of a propulsion system. I don't think so myself, I believe it's just some earth tech (note I didn't say modern human) that was far from refined.

I don't subscriber to the Alexander / Vallee view of this being some augmented reality.

The Writers / Ray Boeche / Linda Howe
------------------------------------------------
These were guys that claimed to be DOD and wrote to Ray and Linda to reveal the "truth". This was a truth which was very close to Montauk, whereby demonic powers were unleashed by experiments.

Read the correspondence. I've never seen more compliments towards a person (in this case Boeche) in the writers correspondence to Linda. That alone makes me "write" it off.

SERPO #2
----------------
Note the drawing that sometimes accompanies the notes. Looks like some sort of device from Semipalatinsk.

a reply to: mirageman

Sorry to derail things Mirage, but I'll just finish, for the sake of Ryan, on what I think the Core Story is really about.

Core Story Theory
-----------------------

MJ12 Documents. I think these, along with some variant of SERPO was written in the 60s. Likely as a cover for a bunch of Cold War stuff.

RV Source

So where did the core story come from? I think it might have come before these documents were seen / retyped. I think the contents come from Remote Viewing. Considering what I've said before, I think the suspicion might be that the Soviets somehow got their hands on these documents and fed them back to the RV team, like they did over other Soviet secrets.

Network Hacking
I think some of the information comes from early network hacking. a little like the Falcon and the Snowman. Of course, this could well be information that is planted to expose leaks!

Active Measures Against The Aviary
Someone was certainly working against the Aviary during the 80s and 90s. The autopsy video tapes, photos, and other "evidence" was likely to delivered to keep Dr Green off track in my opinion. Off track from what I can't figure out and I'm not sure I've the energy or interest to care any more.