God Doesnt Exist

Up until 2002, the scientific community believed that the universe began at the Big Bang and that the universe would eventually collapse back into a singularity in the Big Crunch. However, the most recent scientific models created in 2002 by Princeton University’s Paul Steinhardt and Cambridge University’s Neil Turok, suggests that the Universe was not created at the Big Bang. Turok and Steinhardy proposed a “cyclic theory”, in which the universe is in a never ending expansion and contraction cycle. This means there was never a beginning of the universe; it is infinite and therefore, always existed. . The ‘cyclic theory’ has a strong mathematical basis that delves into string theory. This website URL is msnbc.msn.com...
, so u can check that out if u want.

Also, even though it is three years old, no one has been able to really argue against it and scientists still consider the strongest theory regarding creation. My proof for this is from teh article written just a couple months ago entitled 'East meets west: cosmology then and now' THe URL is www.stnews.org...

If you look at the last paragraphs the author of the article discusses the cyclic theory. Anyways, i hope that gives u a little more insight into the theories and the strong mathematical and logical proof that they provide.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by James_Moriarty]

[edit on 28-7-2005 by James_Moriarty]

[edit on 28-7-2005 by James_Moriarty]

Originally posted by saint4God
The Bible talks about falling away on a few occasions. I may be a bit contraversial here to say that I think true Christians can be broken. I can explain more if anyone is interested.

I, for one, will agree with you; I believe true, born-again, Christians can be broken. I also believe, though, that Jesus Christ can fix them. I know this from first-hand experience. Now, I can say along with the great Christian Hymn: "I'd rather have Jesus than anything the world has to offer today."

I also believe that when a Christian backslides, for want of a better term, God doesn't let them get away without a fight. But then it's all a battle in the spiritual realms.

BTW, Saint4God, UPC or PCA ?

Grace & Peace,

Lightseeker

Originally posted by James_Moriarty
However, the most recent scientific models created in 2002 by Princeton University’s Paul Steinhardt and Cambridge University’s Neil Turok, suggests that the Universe was not created at the Big Bang. Turok and Steinhardy proposed a “cyclic theory”

Thanks for the link! I retract what I said before. It does count as a theory, since there is a test that can potentially falsify it, namely, the detection of gravity waves left over from the inflationary big bang. However, it doesn't seem sufficiently well baked.

There is evidence of a parallel universe (David Deutsch's laser experiment), so the cyclic universe would fit that evidence as well.

Originally posted by lightseeker

Originally posted by saint4God
The Bible talks about falling away on a few occasions. I may be a bit contraversial here to say that I think true Christians can be broken. I can explain more if anyone is interested.

I, for one, will agree with you; I believe true, born-again, Christians can be broken. I also believe, though, that Jesus Christ can fix them. I know this from first-hand experience. Now, I can say along with the great Christian Hymn: "I'd rather have Jesus than anything the world has to offer today."

I also believe that when a Christian backslides, for want of a better term, God doesn't let them get away without a fight. But then it's all a battle in the spiritual realms.

BTW, Saint4God, UPC or PCA ?

Grace & Peace,

Lightseeker

Im interested.
I'd like to know more. Im not certain of what your are saying/meaning by the word broken.

I remember the verse that says something about God never letting you be tempted beyond your means to resist or escape.

But then.. I remember Job...and how Job stayed faithful to the Lord when he was told to just 'curse God and die".
The temptation was great.

Then we have the example of ananias(?) who (I must assume) was a christian who sold all his stuff and kept some money back from the cause (lack of faith). He died on the spot.
Im trying to think of a sure case in the bible but I cannot.

The parable of the seeds shows new ones that immediatly turn away...and the others that are choked out by the sin they do not remove from their life or at least get away from...

As for the falling away... I picture the large scale false prophets and teachers.. (bad doctrine) that leads people into a life of salvation by works and such. This seems different.

Anyway... now that I have made one giant muddled mess... maybe you can make some order out of it.
You know I love your posts ...and now with ls here...and on the same topic....it will be even more enjoyable.

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by lightseeker

Originally posted by saint4God
The Bible talks about falling away on a few occasions. I may be a bit contraversial here to say that I think true Christians can be broken. I can explain more if anyone is interested.

I, for one, will agree with you; I believe true, born-again, Christians can be broken. I also believe, though, that Jesus Christ can fix them. I know this from first-hand experience. Now, I can say along with the great Christian Hymn: "I'd rather have Jesus than anything the world has to offer today."

I also believe that when a Christian backslides, for want of a better term, God doesn't let them get away without a fight. But then it's all a battle in the spiritual realms.

BTW, Saint4God, UPC or PCA ?

Grace & Peace,

Lightseeker

Anyway... now that I have made one giant muddled mess... maybe you can make some order out of it.
You know I love your posts ...and now with ls here...and on the same topic....it will be even more enjoyable.

Gee, Jake, I can't tell from the post whether you were inquiring of Saint or me. Maybe you can post again. The section you quoted had insights by saint and me but he was the 1st one to bring up the "broken" thing.

ls

lol

Well, I figured since you two agreed, that I would toss it between you and listen to who ever picked it up.

Originally posted by lightseeker
I, for one, will agree with you; I believe true, born-again, Christians can be broken. I also believe, though, that Jesus Christ can fix them. I know this from first-hand experience. Now, I can say along with the great Christian Hymn: "I'd rather have Jesus than anything the world has to offer today."

Now this is interesting! I'd like to hear more about the first-hand experience. Though I had not fallen away, I can see and understand in many cases where people can resent (dare I say hate) God for the situation they've been placed into. The Bible does a lot for the soul-confidence if you believe in the words printed there. Like in James 1:2, it reinforces the idea that you need to go through trial and suffering in order to grow. It tells of great reward for sticking it out. I feel the exact reason for that is so that those who read and trust in those words will be the ones to endure. I don't think that you're not a "true Christian" if you don't understand this, but rather am prone to the snares that pull us down. Now. What's there to be said of the "true Christian" who sees such and says "well, you're just not a true Christian"? Does that help that person in their situation? Surely not. Rather, it makes them feel worse, pushes them away, and futher alienates them from God by instill even more doubt. What then makes this Christian "true"? Would it not be so much more beneficial to place a hand on that person's shoulder and say, "I can see you're going through a lot of pain, but God loves you. He has a plan and needs you to trust Him on it."

Originally posted by lightseeker
I also believe that when a Christian backslides, for want of a better term, God doesn't let them get away without a fight. But then it's all a battle in the spiritual realms.

Yeah, I think so too.

Originally posted by lightseeker
BTW, Saint4God, UPC or PCA ?

Wha? How'd you do that? I'll answer but want to know the secret behind that magic trick first. :-P

Originally posted by saint4God

Now this is interesting! I'd like to hear more about the first-hand experience. Though I had not fallen away, I can see and understand in many cases where people can resent (dare I say hate) God for the situation they've been placed into. The Bible does a lot for the soul-confidence if you believe in the words printed there. Like in James 1:2, it reinforces the idea that you need to go through trial and suffering in order to grow. It tells of great reward for sticking it out. I feel the exact reason for that is so that those who read and trust in those words will be the ones to endure. I don't think that you're not a "true Christian" if you don't understand this, but rather am prone to the snares that pull us down. Now. What's there to be said of the "true Christian" who sees such and says "well, you're just not a true Christian"? Does that help that person in their situation? Surely not. Rather, it makes them feel worse, pushes them away, and futher alienates them from God by instill even more doubt. What then makes this Christian "true"? Would it not be so much more beneficial to place a hand on that person's shoulder and say, "I can see you're going through a lot of pain, but God loves you. He has a plan and needs you to trust Him on it."

Well, I can fill you in on the specifics at a later time, perhaps, but the gist of it is that there have been two points in my life where I allowed the weight of the world and my personal problems to overwhelm me, to the point of "breaking." My own prideful spirit and "natural" stubborness prevented me from seeking God's Face, and I actually blamed God and was angry with Him because He didn't just "fix' things. One life event of this kind may be attributable to simply not being well enough grounded in my faith and in the Word; twice in one lifetime seemed to me to indicate that perhaps I hadn't actually been saved at all, even though I had done everything that scripture and the church advocate in that respect.

It took several years, for me to understand and come to believe, through the guidance of The Holy Spirit that it wasn't a question of my "not being saved", so much as it was a question of my "not abiding", in the Father and In Jesus Christ. Eventually, after years of feeling broken and deserted by God, I came to understand that the only person who had changed their position in the relationship was me; God was there beside me and caring for me all the time, I was just spiritually blind to His presence.

For anyone who has not experienced this, let me tell you, it is almost like going through hell on earth, and I have thought at times that perhaos this is what Paul was speaking about when he said that some would be saved, but as through fire. I never want to be apart from Him again and, even though I would never consider myself to be a "model" Christian, I am living my life now for Him and my ultimate goal is to please Him and be always in His will. I still find myself sinning, that's natural because we are not perfect yet and never will be in this lifetime, but I am always quick ( or try to be )
to repent and pray for more patience, or more wisdom, or probably most often more love for those around me.

So, I guess I was one of those you were talking about, who was just prone to the snares of life and the enemy and maybe I always will be, until Jesus comes back to take me home, but I don't feel as vulnerable as I once did because now I am not trusting unto my own understanding; I'm leaning on Jesus and trusting Him for everything.

Originally posted by lightseeker
BTW, Saint4God, UPC or PCA ?

Wha? How'd you do that? I'll answer but want to know the secret behind that magic trick first. :-P

No magic trick involved; you had mentioned in a previous post that you were maybe a little concerned about your presbytery and being a Presbyterian myself, it jumped out at me.

Have a blessed day, all of you,

Lightseeker


[edit on 7/30/2005 by lightseeker]

[edit on 7/30/2005 by lightseeker]

Originally posted by lightseeker
No magic trick involved; you had mentioned in a previous post that you were maybe a little concerned about your presbytery and being a Presbyterian myself, it jumped out at me.

Have a blessed day, all of you,

Lightseeker

Oops! I s'pose I might of, hehe. Nice pick-up. Okay, the distinction I think is interpretational which I don't really like...which is why I don't think there should be any word-warring between baptists, methodist, and the like. Just doesn't make a whole lotta sense especially with what Paul said in Corinthians. I'm still dodging the question aren't I? Well, I guess that's because the church and I don't entirely agree on some minor issues. I was told this is not a problem and agree that it should not be. The church is PCA. I am not a member. They have 'Inquirer's Weekend' coming up in September, where you can go and ask about what they believe and why. I think I'll be going to that. I hope not to be frustrating to them and hope they can handle me with floods of information and patience. Will I become a member? I don't know. Right now I consider myself a protepresbymethobaptist, following good teachers, not necessarily a church. The difference is this particular church is chock full of good leadership, not just one or two inspiring teachers. They've helped to activate my relationship with God, for the missions I'm to undertake in a way that made me look like I was asleep before. Here and now is one of the deeds that flow from a decade and a half of faith.

Thank you for the background lightseeker. It helps me to hear these things. It allows me to see my own path clearly and to understand others.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 30-7-2005 by saint4God]

Wether our religions are right or rong there is god for sure.
In fact we may all be rong all religions might be rong but that does not change anithing.
Traces of god can bee seen all over the universe.
evolution has a planer, everything works because it's planed, everything has a blue print even a flower.
To denny god is to denny everithing this universe stands for, it stands for creation.
Some say that it has to be Phisical???is time phisical?are thoughts phisical?
Everything evolves acording to plan, from a little bacteria that does it's thing.
panets circle the sun solar sistems are formed from galaxyes and everithing is aranged for us to say it's science "this is how it does that"
We do got the word "why" why it does that and not how it does that.
Why is white not black and why black is not red?
The universe works like a mecanism, I dont see how this can be just a coincidence.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Wether our religions are right or rong there is god for sure.

That is YOUR opinion.

In fact we may all be rong all religions might be rong but that does not change anithing.
Traces of god can bee seen all over the universe.
evolution has a planer, everything works because it's planed, everything has a blue print even a flower.
To denny god is to denny everithing this universe stands for, it stands for creation.

No it doesn't, the universe can exist without the need for a god. If the universal laws didnt exist then we wouldn't be here, just because we have universal laws does NOT mean a god made them

Some say that it has to be Phisical???is time phisical?are thoughts phisical?
Everything evolves acording to plan, from a little bacteria that does it's thing.
panets circle the sun solar sistems are formed from galaxyes and everithing is aranged for us to say it's science "this is how it does that"
We do got the word "why" why it does that and not how it does that.
Why is white not black and why black is not red?
The universe works like a mecanism, I dont see how this can be just a coincidence.

White, black, red or blue are just words we attribute to certain colours. If white was black then all it would be is the attribution of the word white to the shade of black nothing more. There is no coincidence that the universe works the way it does, it just does. Is it coinidental that rain falls from the sky or that smoke rises? NO its due to universal laws that exist in our universe, Creator beings need not apply.

G

AnarchistSuperstar, you think INSIDE the box way too much... if everyone thougt INSIDE the box like you do we would live and die and probably to to hell in the end. if you try not to be so earthbound and think OUTSIDE the box you might see how life on earth cant be a coencidence and how some higher power must have created us, if you can get outside the box that is.

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by pepsi78
Wether our religions are right or rong there is god for sure.

That is YOUR opinion.

In fact we may all be rong all religions might be rong but that does not change anithing.
Traces of god can bee seen all over the universe.
evolution has a planer, everything works because it's planed, everything has a blue print even a flower.
To denny god is to denny everithing this universe stands for, it stands for creation.

No it doesn't, the universe can exist without the need for a god. If the universal laws didnt exist then we wouldn't be here, just because we have universal laws does NOT mean a god made them

Some say that it has to be Phisical???is time phisical?are thoughts phisical?
Everything evolves acording to plan, from a little bacteria that does it's thing.
panets circle the sun solar sistems are formed from galaxyes and everithing is aranged for us to say it's science "this is how it does that"
We do got the word "why" why it does that and not how it does that.
Why is white not black and why black is not red?
The universe works like a mecanism, I dont see how this can be just a coincidence.

White, black, red or blue are just words we attribute to certain colours. If white was black then all it would be is the attribution of the word white to the shade of black nothing more. There is no coincidence that the universe works the way it does, it just does. Is it coinidental that rain falls from the sky or that smoke rises? NO its due to universal laws that exist in our universe, Creator beings need not apply.

G

Hmm nice to see that you admit that the universe has laws.
You elaborate on them but you forget to mention who made them, if not god who?they just poped up huh?from nothing a bunch of laws , they just apeard from no where?
The universe is a very big place.
For all of it to hapen random by coincidence is just not valid.
There are just too many laws that work toghether, they put the universe in motion like a clock, hmm the clock was invented by man.
Okay make a little experiment, try making a clock like this.
Take a bunch of garbige, take some random things, and trow them on the ground see if it builds something try building a clock like this.
Blue printing takes alot of inovation, take a look at a plant, it works beautiful, it has stages of progresion.
Everything has evolution, we are too young to understand anithing, the universe it's self is young, it has not developed yet but as young as it is it still makes sence that it was a concept.
It will develope it's under construction still for creating life, astronomers saw it, and said that it's young.
For something this big it takes more then random events.
You can make a puzzle by trowing the pices?
Sure you can with a computer, but the computer is made by man.
With out the computer the pices would never fall in the necesary way.
The computer makes it random but gives it options.
Nothing is by acident.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Hmm nice to see that you admit that the universe has laws.
You elaborate on them but you forget to mention who made them, if not god who?they just poped up huh?from nothing a bunch of laws , they just apeard from no where?

And why not?, just as you claim a god made all my claim of a god having no hand in the universe is just as valid.

The universe is a very big place.
For all of it to hapen random by coincidence is just not valid.
There are just too many laws that work toghether, they put the universe in motion like a clock, hmm the clock was invented by man.
Okay make a little experiment, try making a clock like this.
Take a bunch of garbige, take some random things, and trow them on the ground see if it builds something try building a clock like this.

You know that is statistically near impossible and has no bearing on the universal laws anyway.

Blue printing takes alot of inovation, take a look at a plant, it works beautiful, it has stages of progresion.
Everything has evolution, we are too young to understand anithing, the universe it's self is young, it has not developed yet but as young as it is it still makes sence that it was a concept.
It will develope it's under construction still for creating life, astronomers saw it, and said that it's young.
For something this big it takes more then random events.
You can make a puzzle by trowing the pices?
Sure you can with a computer, but the computer is made by man.
With out the computer the pices would never fall in the necesary way.
The computer makes it random but gives it options.
Nothing is by acident.

Lots of things happen by accident, most living things here today are here by accident. Also all of these laws etc are scientifically quantifiable, the notion of gods however is not.
To put it another way if no one had heard of god and knew nothing of the knowledge of the universe, they could learn the universal knowledge but not learn anything about god. Barring a god appearing and proving its existence to all the planets inhabitants ( which to my knowledge has never happened here). Or the more likely candidate is that someone 'invents' a god to explain the unexplainable. God never made man - Man made god.

It would though, depend on you definition of god??


G

Lots of things happen by accident, most living things here today are here by accident. Also all of these laws etc are scientifically quantifiable, the notion of gods however is not.
To put it another way if no one had heard of god and knew nothing of the knowledge of the universe, they could learn the universal knowledge but not learn anything about god. Barring a god appearing and proving its existence to all the planets inhabitants ( which to my knowledge has never happened here). Or the more likely candidate is that someone 'invents' a god to explain the unexplainable. God never made man - Man made god.

It would though, depend on you definition of god??

Hmm okay , did you know that subatomic particles are on the exact frequncy of energy in order for the universe to exist?
If tuned up a little lower or higher the universe it's slelf would go in non existance.
And the scale is big but some how (by accident in u'r opinion) they vibe at just the right amount.
Well how lucky for us.
Anithing that has evolution has steps, anithing that has steps has a fase well determinated.
Man has tryed to replicate evolution artificialy but with no real succes.
Look at a thing made by nature and at a thing made by man which one will first brake down?
Something defined as original product of the universe is much more complex
than any other thing made by man.
If things are much more complex than I can not see how they can be random.

Pepsi,

Where'd god come from? Why is it that those of faith in a god say you can't get something from nothing and yet believe in a god that came from nothing. Make's no logical sense at all. Why does one need to say "someone" wrote the cosmological constants. "Someone" made them the way they are. Why? That make's no logical sense. Why does "someone" have to have made life? Again, no logical sense behind that thought. Thing's are the way they are. We don't know why, we don't have all the answer's. But why does the thing's we don't know HAVE to be created by "someone"? You've never seen this "someone", so how do you know he exist's? Because some book written by man? Some religion created by man? Man also said lightning came from an angry god. Man also said rainbows were created by leperchauns. Man says alot of untrue thing's about that which he doesn't understand or has no knowledge of. So really, where is the logic? Because YOU don't have the answer and YOU don't know how it could be, your logic says it MUST have been done by some magical diety? Our understanding of the universe is still in it's infancy, to write off the thing's we have no answers to yet as a supernatural diety is just admitting to one's own ignorance. Look back through history, look at what religion's used to teach us. Look at how scientific progress as shown us how those teaching's were wrong, false, and born of ignorance. Man created god, as something was needed to explain the mysteries of the universe. Now we have a better understanding. I think it's time our species dropped this whole imaginary friend act.

Originally posted by Produkt
Pepsi,

Where'd god come from? Why is it that those of faith in a god say you can't get something from nothing and yet believe in a god that came from nothing. Make's no logical sense at all. Why does one need to say "someone" wrote the cosmological constants. "Someone" made them the way they are. Why? That make's no logical sense. Why does "someone" have to have made life? Again, no logical sense behind that thought. Thing's are the way they are. We don't know why, we don't have all the answer's. But why does the thing's we don't know HAVE to be created by "someone"? You've never seen this "someone", so how do you know he exist's? Because some book written by man? Some religion created by man? Man also said lightning came from an angry god. Man also said rainbows were created by leperchauns. Man says alot of untrue thing's about that which he doesn't understand or has no knowledge of. So really, where is the logic? Because YOU don't have the answer and YOU don't know how it could be, your logic says it MUST have been done by some magical diety? Our understanding of the universe is still in it's infancy, to write off the thing's we have no answers to yet as a supernatural diety is just admitting to one's own ignorance. Look back through history, look at what religion's used to teach us. Look at how scientific progress as shown us how those teaching's were wrong, false, and born of ignorance. Man created god, as something was needed to explain the mysteries of the universe. Now we have a better understanding. I think it's time our species dropped this whole imaginary friend act.

That is your opinion.
For example , when did time start?
You cant aswer nether can any one.
Same for god.
What you dont swalow is a creative force doing all the hings that are around in space, matter included, what you dont like to admit is that whats
around us seems manufactured by design.
I will come later with some facts, for now it's enough.

Really? What looks designed? We'll make this easy for you. Point out just one thing in nature that has been proven to be deisgned by this mythical designer. Mind you, this one thing has to be PROVEN to be designed from a designer, not some IC system that'll get explained away just like all the other ICS's have been. No example's of how "well science can't explain this". Undeniable PROOF for a god or designer. What would make you think there is one. There must be UNDENIABLE PROOF for you to come to this conclusion.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, no example's of "well science can't explain this" or "this is IC".

Way too many IC examples have been shown to not be IC.
Man couldn't explain lightning or rainbows before either, and so, to them, their explanation's were right.

[edit on 10-3-2006 by Produkt]

[edit on 10-3-2006 by Produkt]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Hmm okay , did you know that subatomic particles are on the exact frequncy of energy in order for the universe to exist?

where is the proof to coroborate this claim. As far as I'm aware all things resonate at a different frequency thats what makes hem unique.

If tuned up a little lower or higher the universe it's slelf would go in non existance.

Granted but then we wouldn't be here having this converstation if it weren't would we?

And the scale is big but some how (by accident in u'r opinion) they vibe at just the right amount.
Well how lucky for us.

Why not?

Anithing that has evolution has steps, anithing that has steps has a fase well determinated.
Man has tryed to replicate evolution artificialy but with no real succes.

Eh? What about genetically modified plants and animals? What are you on about?

Look at a thing made by nature and at a thing made by man which one will first brake down?
Something defined as original product of the universe is much more complex
than any other thing made by man.
If things are much more complex than I can not see how they can be random.

Granted again but nature has had over a 3 billion year head start on what we can do. Think on it that way.

That is your opinion.

NO its not just Produkts opinion I think that way as well

For example , when did time start?

Well that would depend on your definition of 'time'. If your talking space-time that would be when this universe was created.

You cant aswer nether can any one.
Same for god.
What you dont swalow is a creative force doing all the hings that are around in space, matter included, what you dont like to admit is that whats
around us seems manufactured by design.
I will come later with some facts, for now it's enough.

There is no need for a creator being and nothing is designed by a creator being, things are designed by their genetics and environment not some all powerful diety. I'll wait with baited breath for these 'facts'.


G

he is merely making his reasoning make sense by misleading you one step at a time. "if a + b= c then c must equal this which means this and this and that and so on." each time his connects nature with something, he is taking a step away from it's real meaning; clouding your mind with too much to comprehend. dictionary.com's first definition of nature is "The material world and its phenomena." so is God real? is he a part of what the dictionary tells us is nature? Jesus, God, is/was a part of the material world. there are many accounts of which God is felt through any of the senses, thus making him a phenomena.

onipotence is bound by nature. i have human nature. my nature allows me to jump. i cannot jump over france. i am bound by my human nature, i am not saposed to be able to do it. the bible never claimed that God can do all things. infact, the bible even states some of the things God cannot do. for example, he cannot sin. biblical omnipotence does not mean God can do ANYTHING, it means he can do anything that doesnt violate his character, his nature. i am not that great a writer, so here is an excerpt from a passage that explains what i am trying to say:

[quote="CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY"]God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. Therefore, He cannot make a rock so big he can't pick up, or make something bigger than Himself, etc. But, not being able to do this does not mean He is not God nor that He is not omnipotent. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything conceivable, but the ability to do anything consistent with His nature and consistent with His desire within the realm of His unlimited and universal power which we do not possess. This does not mean He can violate His own nature. If He did something inconsistent with His nature, then He would be self contradictory. If God were self contradictory, He would not be true. Likewise, if He did something that violated his nature, like make a rock so big He can't pick it up, He would also not be true since that would be a self contradiction. Since truth is not self contradictory, as neither is God, if He were not true, then He would not be God. But God is true and not self contradictory, therefore, God cannot do something that violates His own nature.
Another way to look at it is realize that in order for God to make something so big He couldn't pick it up, He would have to make a rock bigger than Himself. Since He is infinite in size, He would have to make something that would be bigger than Himself. Since it is His nature to be the biggest thing in existence because He created all things, He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He.
Also, since a rock, by definition, is not infinitely big, then it isn't logically possible to make a rock, something that is finite in size, be infinite in size (no longer a rock) since only God is infinite in size. At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition is not infinitely large. So, to say that the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock.
What the critics are asking is that God become self contradictory as a proof He doesn't exist. Their assertion is illogical from the start. So what they are doing is trying to get God to be illogical. They want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by invazn]