WATCH: Phoenix Cops Kill Man after Responding to Noise Complaint over Video Game

a reply to: FlyinHeadlock

A cop has a fraction of a second to react. I'm not sure he had any real choice. At that point he had to assume the people inside heard the announcement and like I said, the only reason to answer with a gun is he intended to shoot a cop.

I don't see a way to say this was not a justified shooting.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: underwerks

They did

'The cops arrived eight minutes later and knocked on the door with one of them yelling "Phoenix police" before both of them stepped off to the side, making it impossible for anybody to see them through the peephole.'

Anyone could have yelled "Phoenix police".

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: infolurker

On ATS, I have posted previously at the threat to your person that owning a gun constitutes because everyone else sees you as a threat if you are holding a firearm.

Guns, as self protection, don't work that way.

For one thing, they are far too frequently suicide machines.

The 2nd was about militiamen as a counter to tyranny. They can't possibly work that way, either.

What a BS statement millions of gun owners, and thousands probably have interactions just like this every year. You don't hear about every one of them because they are handled with out any issues.

originally posted by: FlyinHeadlock

originally posted by: lostbook
a reply to: infolurker

This is just so wrong on so many levels. They didn't have to kill him. The man was surrendering and they still shot him.

Police get killed everyday in this situation. He didn't drop the gun but he should have not answered the door with it regardless. Many videos of people acting like they are surrendering and they in fact do not. The police have an 8th of a second to call it. They don't have your luxury of analyzing it after the fact from different angles then call it...meh.

The gun was clearly not pointed at either cop at any time and the victim was clearly surrendering. There was no threat posed to either officer.

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: Blaine91555

Because bad people do bad things and lie. Announcing you're police doesn't make it true. Stepping out of sight while saying you're cops seems a bit sketchy. In this situation, I'd answer the door armed too!

You must live in a pretty bad place if you would do that. Sounds like you're trying to rationalize this to somehow make it the cops fault, because you want it to be the cops fault.

A person has to be paranoid for a reason to answer their door with a gun. Expecting trouble in fact.

So, destroy our own neighbourhoods now?

Demand a state funeral for the victim now?

MASS gather in the streets now and demand that socialism be instituted?

Make signs? Throw molotovs? Dox people? Maybe even attack Tucker Carlson’s children?

Build a chaz?

What’s the commanded ‘reeeeeee’action to this police brutality?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
This is a tough one. Why would anyone answer the door with a gun in their hand after hearing the police announce themselves if not to shoot a cop?

...because criminals and home invaders are too stupid to bang on someone's door and yell "Police!" before stepping out of view of the door's peephole? Look man, somebody does that, cop or not, at my front door on a dark night and somebody's getting lead... might be me, might be a cop, but it's happening.

Ok, the (now) dead guy came barreling out of his front door, kind of aggressively. Saying “What?!”
like he expected a fight or expected a specific person.

HOWEVER, when he was far enough outside to see that it was cops (since they moved out of line of sight for the person standing in the doorway), he IMMEDIATELY dropped his gun hand down to his side AND put his other hand clearly up in the air AS HE WAS KNEELING.

These cops shouldn’t be trained to empty their clips into people at the slightest movement. If that murdering cop had waited a half second more, he presumably would recognize the guy’s open hand in the air and his kneeling position.

Cops aren’t punished for making mistakes, yet they have the power to make mistakes that end in death. The rest of us, we make a serious mistake at work and we can be fired. Cops need to be held accountable when they make stupid mistakes like this guy.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: infolurker

On ATS, I have posted previously at the threat to your person that owning a gun constitutes because everyone else sees you as a threat if you are holding a firearm.

Guns, as self protection, don't work that way.

For one thing, they are far too frequently suicide machines.

The 2nd was about militiamen as a counter to tyranny. They can't possibly work that way, either.

What a BS statement millions of gun owners, and thousands probably have interactions just like this every year. You don't hear about every one of them because they are handled with out any issues.

It happened. It will happen again.

And, of those millions of gun owners, about 23,000 commit suicide, by firearm, every year.

Firearm Suicide in the United States - Everytown

I have not watched the video, but from the responses in this thread, it sounds like the police overstepped their Authority..and should have murder charges filed against them.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: FlyinHeadlock

A cop has a fraction of a second to react.

So does the homeowner.

I think we in the "I support police" community sometimes hitch our wagons to the wrong horse. In that regard, we tend to be just as stump stupid as the #BLM idiots and their defense of actual pieces of filth thugs like the fat boy in St Louis a few years ago, or the child abusing crack head in Atlanta last month. This is one of those cases where the cops neither deserve nor should have our defense. They effed up from the time they decided to not stand in view of the door's peephole, time to purge these particular cops from not only the police ranks, but also the free population of the nation. Lock 'em up and society can walk away from it.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

What?

That never happens.

Home invaders yell 'police' before kicking in door, robbing apartment residents

tulsaworld.com... html

Home invaders pose as police, gunfight breaks out with family inside
abcnews.go.com...

Robbers pretend to be cops in West Covina home invasion

abc7.com...


Gunmen pretending to be police break into family’s Tacoma home
www.thenewstribune.com...

Home Invasion Robbers Yell Police To Get Victims To Open Their Door

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: infolurker

On ATS, I have posted previously at the threat to your person that owning a gun constitutes because everyone else sees you as a threat if you are holding a firearm.

Guns, as self protection, don't work that way.

For one thing, they are far too frequently suicide machines.

The 2nd was about militiamen as a counter to tyranny. They can't possibly work that way, either.

What a BS statement millions of gun owners, and thousands probably have interactions just like this every year. You don't hear about every one of them because they are handled with out any issues.

It happened. It will happen again.

And, of those millions of gun owners, about 23,000 commit suicide, by firearm, every year.

Firearm Suicide in the United States - Everytown

And without guns they’d all still be alive?

Ha ha haaaa

a reply to: Blaine91555

I live in the same city you do, and there ain't no way in Hell I'd answer a door in the middle of the night in Anchorage, Alaska without a weapon in my hand. Of course the cops here know this and, partly thanks to the geometry of an arctic entry, it wouldn't really be possible for a cop to shield his presence from a door's peephole or window here without physically covering that window or peep (at which point, again... cop or no, likely deserves a good dose of reality and some critical education on why you do not mask yourself from a homeowner's view if you are pounding on his or her door in the wee hours.)

a reply to: infolurker

This guy gets it.

On top of all that, we as citizens have been told by the SCOTUS that our defense is in our own hands. The cops are there to respond to crime after it has happened and are under no mandate to protect citizen's lives or property when those citizen's are under threat. Well, I'd happily argue that by that metric, the citizens who have committed no crime are under no mandate to treat cops pounding on their door in the middle of the night (or in Louisville, breaking down the door) as anything other than a direct threat to the safety and security of that home.

It looks to me like the police effed up.

I don’t blame them for being scared and trigger happy in these situations though.

Here’s what can happen when it goes sideways for them.

groups.io...

I would NOT want to be a police officer in today’s world.

a reply to: infolurker

The police showed up thinking physical abuse was happening due to the 911 caller giving false info — just so he could get some sleep. People need to realize the consequences of false claims. I hope the prick is happy he’s finally getting his sleep.

Don’t get me wrong, the cop should not have put 3 bullets in the dude’s back. And the cops should have made their presence know before he opened the door. Not hiding away from the peep hole.

Yet in an active warzone soldiers have to be fired upon in order to return fire. How is this acceptable?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I've watched that video multiple times now and simply do not see a way to say it was not a justified, if not an understandable reaction. It's a pretty scary world for cops now.

The view that cop had was of him with a gun behind his back, and then he sweeps the weapon around his side out of view of him, as if to shoot his partner. It's one thing to second guess watching video that shows a perspective he could not see, and another to say he had no justification. I'm sorry, I don't see it this time.

You actually believe a cop should stand in front of a peephole where they think a domestic violence case is in progress, and make themselves an easy target. No cop is paid that much. That's one of the most dangerous calls they take, and had no way of knowing it was not real.

If they are afraid to react, they need to retire cause why die for a low paying profession.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: infolurker

On ATS, I have posted previously at the threat to your person that owning a gun constitutes because everyone else sees you as a threat if you are holding a firearm.

Guns, as self protection, don't work that way.

For one thing, they are far too frequently suicide machines.

The 2nd was about militiamen as a counter to tyranny. They can't possibly work that way, either.

What a BS statement millions of gun owners, and thousands probably have interactions just like this every year. You don't hear about every one of them because they are handled with out any issues.

It happened. It will happen again.

And, of those millions of gun owners, about 23,000 commit suicide, by firearm, every year.

Firearm Suicide in the United States - Everytown

And without guns they’d all still be alive?

Ha ha haaaa

The vast majority of them.

Only about 15% of those who attempt suicide unsuccessfully, will try again. And suicide by firearm is fairly rapid. The psychological evidence is that many suicides can be avoided if the person has time to reconsider their actions - hence the proven effectiveness of suicide hotlines and counselling.

Suicides by firearm are about 90% fatal. The highest fatality of any method of suicide.

Comparatively, suicide by overdose, the most frequently used method, is about 3% fatal.

Other methods of suicide, which are often painful and may also take significant time for effect, are similarly ineffective when compared with firearm suicides.

Suicide attempt
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This also raises the question about someone who would suggest that suicidal tendencies are an argument in favor of firearm proliferation.