Questioning the big bang

I've just got an idea if you beleive in the big bang (I do). Correct me if im wrong It states that all matter was a giant Ball that blew up and is filling the universe. now my idea is, were did the mass come from to blow up and what is there now? I think its a HUGE blackhole because when certin stars blow up the create black holes. any suggestions?

Originally posted by Squincha
I've just got an idea if you beleive in the big bang (I do). Correct me if im wrong It states that all matter was a giant Ball that blew up and is filling the universe.

Not truly, rather, that there was matter, it was compressed, therefore hot, and that the space-time continuum (and matter, energy, dark matter, etc along with it) underwent a period of rapid 'inflation'. Thats what the theory isnormally called, inflation theory.

now my idea is, were did the mass come from to blow up

It needn't come from anywhere. The nature of inflation is such that it does not permit us to examine any evidence for what brought it into being, what caused it, or what was around before it. Could've been a cycle of expanding and collapsing universes. Could've been a universe that had runaway inflation and literally tore itself into unconnceted shreds. Could've been logos. Could've been an invisible pink unicorn. Its unknowable, the evidence was completley destroyed.

and what is there now?

From what i understand, which is very little (in general very little and in particular on this topic very little), there is not 'center' about which everything expanded. Every point grew equally distant from one another. THe geometry is likened to an inflating ballon, with the universe being the surface. Every point becomes more distant from one another.

I think its a HUGE blackhole because when certin stars blow up the create black holes.

its important to remember that the 'big bang' is called that because of its detractors. WHen the theory was originally proposed one detractor in particular, effectively was liek 'what, its a 'big bang' or something, hur hur hur!'.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Squincha
I've just got an idea if you beleive in the big bang (I do). Correct me if im wrong It states that all matter was a giant Ball that blew up and is filling the universe. now my idea is, were did the mass come from to blow up and what is there now? I think its a HUGE blackhole because when certin stars blow up the create black holes. any suggestions?

Nygdan made good points to all this, to which I'll just add my own as much from science fiction as science so bear with me.

Let me preface this by saying I don't believe in Alphas and Omegas as much as I do infinite cycles. So considering I can't "start at the beginning" allow me to just jump in here in the middle, and tell me where this is wrong please.

Suns form naturally by understood scientific principles and all suns die out by understood scientific principles. But not all suns form black holes when they do die out. They must at least be 4 times larger than our own sun (for example), so we've established some do and some don't form black holes (assuming the theory of black holes is accurate). And there's a temporal element to the formation of a black hole, meaning it does take place in real space time (though it does eventually impact it, but I think I can avoid going there for this discussion). The point being, one started before all the others. I don't know if there's a theory of super black holes or not, but let's call that one it. Not "the first" as you'll see, but the relative first in this cycle.

If there's a theory as to how black holes end or the death of black holes, I'd like to see it, but my premise is they don't end. They grow and grow with one eventually including all the others and all matter in the Universe in it's own infinitely dense singularity. (This may be what you're saying Squincha). It may not have had to be literally the "first" to form, just some relationship of "early" and near the center of this "Universe" to make gravitational and temporal elements make it "the last" or Big Black Hole.

While from our limited perspective it may be seen as all matter being "destroyed" in the infinitely dense singularity, white hole theory tells us it's possible there's an other side. Now current white hole theory maintains the black hole exit is out there... somewhere, whether in our own space time, or a new one, there's an exit.

And for the life of me I can't see why white holes aren't mini big bangs of a sort. "Mini" being a relative term. Now I'm not exactly applying the linear multiverse theory that we exist along side other Universes and maybe those are created by the white holes of another, nor am I saying the entire Universe is but an atom in another Universe and so on and so forth, because either of those is a causal based Alpha and Omega linear paradox.

I'm saying at some point the Big Black Hole takes everything through the Big White Hole with no matter or energy loss forming another Universe, or rather reforming this one... over and over and over. It even take the matter from other white holes before it in the process. Nothing is lost.

There's just not much matter in the Universe, so try and understand where I'm coming from. I've seen previously that current theory estimates the universe is 0.0000000000000000000042% matter, with the rest being empty. And even at the denistiy of our own sun could fit in a relatively small area, but we know singularities are infinitely dense, inescapable, never grow in size but they do in gravitational impact, and "could" contain all matter in the Universe quite easily. Correction.. almost all matter, as per either Big Bang theory or this of Big White Hole.

So why not a Big Black Hole (eventually) and Big White Hole on the other side...which in my thinking isn't the other side at all, but the exact same place once all matter turns the tide of near infinite gravity to near infinite repullsion... aka a big White Hole.

It may sound like the exact same thing as Big Bang theory, but it's not. It might just solve some paradoxes created by black hole theory, and the loss of matter. But I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so just a thought.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by RANT]

Astronomers now use the "background glow" of microwave radiation as proof of the big bang. This radiation has a temperture of 1 or 2 degrees above abosolute zero (-273c) and is visible in every direction. It is meant to be the remnants of the initial "explosion" or expansion. I can remember reading somwhere that this residual radiation or "heat" could also be the result of radiation from the millions of stars in the millions of galaxies spread throught the universe. Perhaps someone who knows how can confirm if there is enough energy to do this. If this is the case then the obseved expansion of the universe must be due to something else, or the methods used to measure the expansion are flawed. The implications are that the universe came into being some other way or it was allways there/here having no begining.

I think space may be a lot like a sock turned inside out...you can only push the sock through itself so far before it pops out the other side. The Big Bang may be the result or a singluarity "packed too tightly," with all the matter of the Universe "popping out the other side."

Just a guess, but it makes conceptual sense to me.

In the beginning there was no beginning. There wasn't anything, there wasn't anywhere for anything to exist in.

Quantum fluctuation creates random fluctuation in energy, as long as you pay it back when you're done (so the net total change is 0). This happens, a particle is created, as well as its antiparticle, they anihilate themselves, pay back the energy, and nothing happens.

Roughly 1/1,000,000,000 times, a particle called a Higgs Boson might be created. A Higgs Boson has a Higgs Field, which can change randomly. We currently don't know what a Higgs is or what its field is, except that it has one. IF a Higgs Boson was created, and its field fluctuated enough, it could build to a point where it would "Explode" (read: create) all of existance upon our beautiful 4 (read: 11) dimensions.

Technically, through this scenario, universe could be popping up all around us, all the time, but there are an infinite number of dimensions to chose from, so the odds of us ever interacting are in the vicinity of ZERO.

Originally posted by The Block
I can remember reading somwhere that this residual radiation or "heat" could also be the result of radiation from the millions of stars in the millions of galaxies spread throught the universe.

Yes, yes it can. If you turn on your tv, and get 'snow,' about 1% of that is the CMB.

Hiya All.

Who knows what the nature of the universe was before a certain point. we can only extrapolate and trace back the origins of everything through observation of how things are today.

The problem we have is that the very nature of our universe in it's present state may not have been the same throughout its history.

of course we can attempt to reproduce the big bang it's self.... though I wouldn't advice a success lol ;p

The Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) at Brookhaven can accelerate 2 atoms of gold to 99.95% of Light Speed and then smash them together....

Mini Big Bang Created, Puzzling Results Too Explosive

This has spectacular results with all kinds of particles being released in a ball of super hot plasma that is so hot and expansive it could be a mini big bang.

Two Gold Atoms Collide at 99.95% of Light Speed

There is a theory that states that where there is a negative or lack of energy that the conditions are right within a 10 dimensional space to leak energy... this effect is a bit like an elastic band but in perpetual Fluid motion.... And it's motion that I attribute time too but that's a different thread lol

Exotic black holes spawn new universal law

Anyway...

Hope that is food for Thought


NeoN HaZe




[edit on 23-3-2005 by Neon Haze]

(posted by Amorymeltzer)
If you turn on your tv, and get 'snow,' about 1% of that is the CMB.

...and if you turn on your radio, the "static" that you hear when moving between radio stations as you tune into one, or the one you hear as you fine-tune, has a component that can also be traced back to the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR).
*

[edit on 23-3-2005 by Macrento]