Sleep Aids and Dementia

Does anyone know whether the reports of an association between sleep aids and dementia reflect causality or correlation? It looks like it may be causation based on this study, but I'm not sure at all.

www.mdedge.com...

However, when I look at something like this study, it seems like it may be more causation--that the poor sleep quality itself (versus the drug to treat it) is the risk factor.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I know I could try to run this down, but I'm hoping perhaps one or some of you have done it already?

OTC Sleep aids these days typically have a first-generation antihistamine as the sole active ingredient. As you may know, antihistamines are typically used in the treatment of allergies. However, they have a primary side-effect of drowsiness, which has lead to their increased popularity as relatively safe sleep aids. One of the most common sleep aids today is diphenhydramine, the same chemical active in the allergy med Benadryl. An important detail to note is that these antihistamines also are anti-cholingeric to various degrees, which means they are drugs that block the action of acetylcholine(a neurotransmitter) in the brain.

One interesting effect of an anticholinergic overdose is severe confusion and delirium. Diphenhydramine, in particular, has gained notoriety in certain counter-culture circles for it's delirium-inducing effects, where it is occasionally abused for recreational purposes. While some people go out of their way in order to experience these side effects, others stumble upon them by accident. It's easier to take too high of a dose than you would think, as the dosage it takes to cause these side effects varies greatly depending on your weight, age, and personal sensitivity to the chemical. Many senior citizens are told to avoid using diphenhydramine altogether as it can cause confusion in even the smallest of therapeutic doses when you reach that age.

I'm not an expert, and really am not qualified to give an answer, but this is a subject that interested me greatly a few years back and I did a solid amount of research on it. The theory, if I remember correctly, was that the long term blockage of acetylcholine(due to the anti-cholinergic effects of OTC sleep meds) is believed to be the cause of the increased risk. I don't think it's that big of a leap to suggest drugs that can cause severe delirium and cognitive side-effects from one time usage could lead to dementia when used consistently over a period of years.


Finally, to answer your question, the gist I got from the studies I read was that many experts are leaning towards causation, not correlation, but that isn't yet conclusive.

Thank you for raising these questions, I will read later 👍🏻

I am keen to hear what others say as I was prescribed used and abused (with alcohol). Ambien for 12 years 😳

I got off them 3 years ago and am now on Trazadone.

Point being, I am in my 40's and have the WORSE memory now 😕
I mean I know people aged 70 to 90 with better memories than me.
I'm sure I have permanent damage now, even though I 'can" memorise stuff if asked to, like I did at my doctors when he gave me the memory test.

If my memory continues to get worse at the same pace, I reckon I'll be institutionalised within 15 years 🙁

Oh, and I've been hospitalised 5 or 6 times through overdoses on Ambien too. I'm so fkd aren't I 😞

There has been a link between benzodiazepine use and dementia. I am looking for the studies now, I had the links saved somewhere.....

Yes, sleep aids can increase dementia risk, so can many of the medicines classified as proton pump inhibitors. I have read research on both of those and from the research I have read in the past, I believe they research articles are correct in that these increase the risk of Alzheimer disease and other dementias, including the dementia associated with Parkinson disease.

I did not save these articles because I do not have a special folder for that in my bookmarks. I do know that Anticholine meds do cause dementia and they have found that some meds that are popular now are messing with metabolism which inadvertantly lowers acetylcholine. In the case of some of these meds they stop the actyltransferase to make the neurotransmitter, so much of the choline in the diet is not converted to acetylcholine which unbalances brain chemistry.

They were making meds for alzheimer disease back in 10 and 11 that actually increased the progression. The pharma company saw evidence that a certain chemistry was possibly involved somehow with alzheimer disease, so they pushed a medicine through they had developed to treat the disease. After making many thousands of people worse, evidence came out that that chemical actually was being produced to try to deter the destruction of the brain cells by the brains specific immune system. My wife's aunt was taking that med, kind of pisses me off. She was a nice woman and they made her life hell. She could have actually had five or more good years before the disease made her bad. Everything the doctor had prescribed for her I researched, including the type of calcium supplements, and there was evidence of all contributing to alzheimer disease, some actually while she was taking the meds and specialized supplements..

originally posted by: rickymouse
including the type of calcium supplements,.

What? I was aware of issues with all of the other things, but which calcium supplements exactly? I haven't heard anything about this.

So I guess I'll just carry on as an insomniac. lol I guess one silver lining to being forced into retiring early is that if you're completely knocked out from lack of sleep, it doesn't matter on any particular day as long as you don't have to drive across town for some reason.

Which Alzheimer's med was it that actually made the disease worse? Geez, you can't trust these people at all. It's like a drug has to be on the market for a decade before you can begin to guess if it's safe or not. Note, "guess". Discoveries after being sent to market are pretty disturbing.

originally posted by: drussell41

originally posted by: rickymouse
including the type of calcium supplements,.

What? I was aware of issues with all of the other things, but which calcium supplements exactly? I haven't heard anything about this.

So I guess I'll just carry on as an insomniac. lol I guess one silver lining to being forced into retiring early is that if you're completely knocked out from lack of sleep, it doesn't matter on any particular day as long as you don't have to drive across town for some reason.

Which Alzheimer's med was it that actually made the disease worse? Geez, you can't trust these people at all. It's like a drug has to be on the market for a decade before you can begin to guess if it's safe or not. Note, "guess". Discoveries after being sent to market are pretty disturbing.

Calcium in certain forms can neutralize stomach acid, the oxide does that and so do some other ones. By doing so it blocks the uptake of certain minerals and vitamins causing a deficiency. So, some forms can lead to deficiencies which can cause overactivity in the brain and also too much calcium can cause harm to the blood brain barrier which blocks the ability of nutrients to get into it. A small amount to calcification can occur. They are making calcium the pancea of nutrition, although it does have many good effects in the body, too much is definitely not good. Look up hypercalcemia, lots of problems can come from that. The body tries to keep the blood levels normal, so the blood tests can look normal but the body sticks the calcium into the joints and organs and blood vessels where it can cause a whole pile of pain and inflammation. It forms crystals that are sharp enough to damage blood cells some times.

It was the problem with big Pharma, a little evidence came to light and they used that evidence to get their drug approved...then other companies followed suit to create a problem based on their desire to profit

a reply to: drussell41
Jeez, you had me worried there with your title. I use a sleep aid, a CPAP machine and found no mention in the literature. I think you aught to re-write your title to " sleep drugs and dementia".

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: drussell41
Jeez, you had me worried there with your title. I use a sleep aid, a CPAP machine and found no mention in the literature. I think you aught to re-write your title to " sleep drugs and dementia".

I'm sorry for causing worry. I don't know how to change the title. It won't let me change the block of text....it's been over four hours. I'd be happy to change it if you can tell me how.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: drussell41

originally posted by: rickymouse
including the type of calcium supplements,.

What? I was aware of issues with all of the other things, but which calcium supplements exactly? I haven't heard anything about this.

So I guess I'll just carry on as an insomniac. lol I guess one silver lining to being forced into retiring early is that if you're completely knocked out from lack of sleep, it doesn't matter on any particular day as long as you don't have to drive across town for some reason.

Which Alzheimer's med was it that actually made the disease worse? Geez, you can't trust these people at all. It's like a drug has to be on the market for a decade before you can begin to guess if it's safe or not. Note, "guess". Discoveries after being sent to market are pretty disturbing.

Calcium in certain forms can neutralize stomach acid, the oxide does that and so do some other ones. By doing so it blocks the uptake of certain minerals and vitamins causing a deficiency. So, some forms can lead to deficiencies which can cause overactivity in the brain and also too much calcium can cause harm to the blood brain barrier which blocks the ability of nutrients to get into it. A small amount to calcification can occur. They are making calcium the pancea of nutrition, although it does have many good effects in the body, too much is definitely not good. Look up hypercalcemia, lots of problems can come from that. The body tries to keep the blood levels normal, so the blood tests can look normal but the body sticks the calcium into the joints and organs and blood vessels where it can cause a whole pile of pain and inflammation. It forms crystals that are sharp enough to damage blood cells some times.

It was the problem with big Pharma, a little evidence came to light and they used that evidence to get their drug approved...then other companies followed suit to create a problem based on their desire to profit

What form of calcium supplement is best?

a reply to: drussell41

MOD NOTE
I see nothing wrong with the title.
A supplement used to help one sleep is certainly a sleep aid....IMVHO.
In fact, doing a Bing search for "sleep aids", the number one hit was a well-known supplement.

a reply to: rickymouse

Calcineurin is related here as well, its pretty interesting stuff.

Also of note is this.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: drussell41

MOD NOTE
I see nothing wrong with the title.
A supplement used to help one sleep is certainly a sleep aid....IMVHO.
In fact, doing a Bing search for "sleep aids", the number one hit was a well-known supplement.

Okay; sounds good to me.

These substances were always referred to as sleep aids by things that I read, but if I could change the title to keep anyone from worrying, I would. A lot of stress going around lately.

originally posted by: drussell41

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: drussell41

originally posted by: rickymouse
including the type of calcium supplements,.

What? I was aware of issues with all of the other things, but which calcium supplements exactly? I haven't heard anything about this.

So I guess I'll just carry on as an insomniac. lol I guess one silver lining to being forced into retiring early is that if you're completely knocked out from lack of sleep, it doesn't matter on any particular day as long as you don't have to drive across town for some reason.

Which Alzheimer's med was it that actually made the disease worse? Geez, you can't trust these people at all. It's like a drug has to be on the market for a decade before you can begin to guess if it's safe or not. Note, "guess". Discoveries after being sent to market are pretty disturbing.

Calcium in certain forms can neutralize stomach acid, the oxide does that and so do some other ones. By doing so it blocks the uptake of certain minerals and vitamins causing a deficiency. So, some forms can lead to deficiencies which can cause overactivity in the brain and also too much calcium can cause harm to the blood brain barrier which blocks the ability of nutrients to get into it. A small amount to calcification can occur. They are making calcium the pancea of nutrition, although it does have many good effects in the body, too much is definitely not good. Look up hypercalcemia, lots of problems can come from that. The body tries to keep the blood levels normal, so the blood tests can look normal but the body sticks the calcium into the joints and organs and blood vessels where it can cause a whole pile of pain and inflammation. It forms crystals that are sharp enough to damage blood cells some times.

It was the problem with big Pharma, a little evidence came to light and they used that evidence to get their drug approved...then other companies followed suit to create a problem based on their desire to profit

What form of calcium supplement is best?

I would say that 500 mg calcium citrate with a 250 mg magnesium citrate in the same pill would be about right. Those two should be balanced or they can cause either muscle cramping if too much calcium or muscles that twitch or almost feel like they are tearing apart weirdly if there is too much magnesium and not enough calcium.

As you may have guessed, I have tested on myself and found out how the side effects manifest. It may be different for different people though and I am talking about calcium and magnesium at the cellular level, not evaluating it for bone growth.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: rickymouse

Calcineurin is related here as well, its pretty interesting stuff.

Also of note is this.

I have read about Calcineurin, but I am not really comprehending how it is regulated in our bodies. I know that this chemistry is found in some grains, but I never found if it is bioactive in humans. I should spend some time studying that, maybe now is a good time. I know that you need pyrophosphates to build bone along with vitamin D and calcium and somehow the calcineurin is involved in triggering that plus it has something to do with regulating the calcium/glutamate receptors on cells.

Still have some more to learn. Did you ever find out a simple way to explain how it fits into things? I know they do have meds that are inhibitors but can't quite comprehend why inhibiting calcineurin is needed.

a reply to: rickymouse

I havent looked too much into it.

However, it seems to exist kind of in the realm that I call "machine level." Meaning, very broad nearly ubiquitous operation, much like cytokines.

In that, I would somewhat intuitively assume that the same things that affect cytokines, immune modulation, etc. would probably involve calcineurin. So, curcumin, honokiol, etc.

That is.. Very much shooting from the hip though. Just wanted to get the idea to you before I logged off.

originally posted by: rickymouse


I would say that 500 mg calcium citrate with a 250 mg magnesium citrate in the same pill would be about right. Those two should be balanced or they can cause either muscle cramping if too much calcium or muscles that twitch or almost feel like they are tearing apart weirdly if there is too much magnesium and not enough calcium.

As you may have guessed, I have tested on myself and found out how the side effects manifest. It may be different for different people though and I am talking about calcium and magnesium at the cellular level, not evaluating it for bone growth.

Thanks, RM. You are one of the coolest people ever.

a reply to: drussell41

Now, everyone is different, I am stating what works best for me with my diet. Some people consume milk or other high calcium foods more or less than I do. Same with magnesium. I never take a supplement containing too much calcium or magnesium on a regular basis, I usually use that calcium magnesium supplement if I am constipated or need a temporary boost of energy. Too much calcium can increase autoimmune system problems if you have the genetics for it.