A.D. 70;- Where's the Abomination?

originally posted by: Isurrender73
The urgency was for the saints to be prepared for what would happen in 70AD.

In that case, the abomination must be the signal for the urgent flight, according to the words of Jesus, and must therefore come first. We come back to this point again and again.

The abomination of desolation is an event that starts with the destruction of Jerusalem.

From your own thesis, quoted above, the abomination of desolation must be an evenr which precedes the destruction of Jerusalem, because that is what they are trying to escape when they make their flight, and the abomination warns them of the necessity of making their flight. The sequence, the sequence, the sequence.

So even if this message is only about the destruction of the temple and the inability to worship and make sacrifices it still covers all the necessary parts of the abomination of desolation.

Execpt that part of the definition given by Jesus is that the event comes before the flight and tribulation.
The sequence, the sequence, the sequence.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Is God an abomination since He used the Romans to stop the sacrifice by destroying the temple? Or was it when He destroyed the temple prior to Jesus?

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck
The action of "stopping the sacrifice" described by Daniel is an act of hostility towards God. Obviously God is not being hostile towards himself, so the event doesn't match what Daniel is talking about.
You are still going round in circles.

I just thought I would point this detail out. I would say the events of 70 AD had nothing to do with the Abomination of Desolation prophecy. You're looking at the wrong prophecy. What the world saw in the first century AD was the start of the day of Jezreel prophecy in Hosea.

In that prophecy it was detailed that Israel and Judah were to face a long term top level Leviticus 26 curse. One where the country and cities were destroyed and the people killed or scattered to the world. But the important detail to the prophecy in in verses 6-1 through 6-3.

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

What Jerusalem and Israel were seeing was the start of the curse. That's why it's not matching up to the Abomination of Desolation prophecy. It's the start of the day of Jezreel prophecy instead.

a reply to: ntech
I agree with your first sentence. My argument has been that the Abomination prophecy was not fulfilled in the events of A.D. 70, and should be looked for somewhwre else.

a reply to: DISRAELI

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Which in Luke reads when Jerusalem is surrounded then finished with the exact same remarks about the incident.

You are so involved in your understanding of events that even when something is clearly written you struggle to accept what is written.

The abomination is the rise of the Romans and the subsequent church. The abomination that causes the subsequent desolation doesn’t have to be a singular event directly proceeded immediately by a desolation. It can be a series of events.

Just like in the days of Jesus many Jews rejected him as Christ because he was not fulfilling the scriptures based on what they believed the scriptures said. But as Christians we can now see clearly that the prophecies in the OT were of multiple events spread out to multiple different times, at least 2000 years to be exact. While the Jews of today still accept the original understanding of Christ and await a type of world leader that can be anointed Christ and fulfill all parts of the prophecy at one time.

All you have to do is accept that these two verses which are quoted almost identically are discussing the exact same event to understand that you must be mistaken in your understanding.

It’s absolutely clear that the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD is the Abomination that causes Desolation. But you are stuck on your understanding that this must be an immediate thing where the entire thing happens in an exact chronological order that you have assigned to the event.

I am merely helping you see how this event played out over time, and that the warning was for the followers of the true Christian faith to go into hiding because they would be hunted down and persecuted.

We know the Romans perverted the religion and we know that they hunted down and killed anyone that did not accept the Pope and the earthly king anointed by the Pope as God’s only voice on earth.

The abomination of desolation can begin in 70 Ad and continue through time, with one point in the prophecy being an urgent call to those of the true faith to go into hiding. This fulfills the prophecy exactly as it’s written. Accepting the events that would happen as a result of the Roman conquering of Jerusalem and their subsequent rule is the only way to reconcile the two NT passages and the prophecy of Daniel.

Not once when I have debated you on the meanings in the Bible have you ever changed your opinion so I don’t expect you to now, but maybe others will see what I have written so they can move past an event that has already happened and seek to understand what we should actually be waiting for when it comes to prophecy.

a reply to: Isurrender73
You have not solved the problem that the abomination comes before the flight. Those are the words of Jesus, not mine; "WHEN you see... THEN flee."

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Isurrender73
You have not solved the problem that the abomination comes before the flight. Those are the words of Jesus, not mine; "WHEN you see... THEN flee."

When you see Jerusalem sorounded flee. Luke solved the problem you have. I don’t have to solve anything.

The abomination starts with the Roman armies destruction of Jerusalem and continues with the subsequent rule of Rome. The beginning of what is called the abomination of desolation does proceed the flee. Exactly as it is written in Luke.

You feel like the abomination has to be totally fulfilled before the flee. Where do the scriptures say that? Quote me the scriptures that say the entire prophecy of the abomination of desolation must be one event completed in it’s totality in a short period of time. The only thing that must happen in a short period of time is the surrounding of Jerusalem and the flee.

Again combining Luke and Mathew make it very clear what event they are talking about. The only problem is reconciling what exactly is the abomination of desolation. The Catholic Church clearly embodies that. A church that could not have come to power without the conquest of Jerusalem that preceded it.

You are arguing not against me but against Luke. Even if you can’t see it. I am not doing anything but agreeing with the scriptures. You have decided that your opinion must be right. But your opinion condraicts the words that Luke is quoting as coming directly from Jesus.

Many times we disagree and I can see your point. But in this particular instance you are arguing against something that appears to be clearly answered by the scriptures.

a reply to: Isurrender73
"When you see the desolating sacrilege, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judaea flee." Matthew ch24 v15
"Armies surrounding Jerusalem" does not qualify as something standing IN the holy place.
Something happening after the flight does not qualify as a signal for the flight.

This is a dual prophesy with application within both the first century and the 20th and 21st century.
Who was it the first century, the Roman empire/armies with their pagan ideologies, standing in a spot that was holy to the Jews, the temple area. If you remember to some degree this happened in 66 under General Gallus, but as prophesied by Jesus there would be time for Christians to flee the area, this happened when the armies withdrew but then returned 4 years later in 70 under Titus and finished the job.

So who would it be in the next prophesy later, a political entity, it to would eventually stand in a place it shouldn't, but that is for another discussion.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
Who was it the first century, the Roman empire/armies with their pagan ideologies, standing in a spot that was holy to the Jews, the temple area.

They were already there when Jesus was speaking. It was Roman soldiers who scourged him a few days later. The abomination needs to be a new development.

A leter version would still be obliged to fit the defintiion of "abomination", which is idolatry, the worship of an alternative god.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes but they were not allowed inside the temple when they were an occupying force verses a destroying army that no longer cared about keeping any level of peace anymore.

66 and 70 IS a new development compared to the long term occupation of the Romans.

a reply to: DISRAELI



This was the abomination that caused desolation in 70 AD. The Romans sent out their attack dogs (which were really wolves) in advance of their army and let them roam freely within Jerusalem to upset the Jews. The Romans knew that Jews hated dogs because they were deemed the most unclean animal per the Mosaic Law. When the wolves entered the Sanctuary of the temple this was the sign of the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.

The wolf was a sacred animal to the Romans and was connected to the war god Mars. The Romans had a legend about a she-wolf protecting and suckling the infant twins Romulus and Remus. Later Romulus would found the Roman Empire.

Romulus and Remus

Capitoline

She-wolf (Roman mythology)

There is evidence that the wolf held a special place in the world of the ancient inhabitants of Italy. One legend claims that the Hirpini people were so-called because, when they set out to found their first colony, they were led to its location by a wolf (from the Osco-Umbrian word for wolf: hirpus). The tale of the Lupercal is central to that of the twins, and probably predates theirs. To the Roman god Mars, the wolf is a sacred animal. There is an ongoing debate about a connection to the ancient Roman festival of the Lupercalia.

en.wikipedia.org...(Roman_mythology)

a reply to: lostinspace
Doesn't quite fit unless they were trying to make the Jews themselves worship those dogs. That was the point of the original "abomination" of Antiochus Epiphanes.


Also, remember, the future abomination was supposed to be a signal for flight, so this one would have come a bit late.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I am only talking about the sign that spooked the Christians into leaving Judea before the Romans came in full force in 70 AD. I was in error about when the wolves came but that sign did come prior to 70 AD when Titus ransacked Jerusalem. I know it is very speculative but the scriptures are silent as to what exactly happened that scared the Christians out of Judea.

The wolf appears elsewhere in Roman art and literature in masculine form as the animal of Mars. A statue group that stood along the Appian Way showed Mars in the company of wolves.[52] At the Battle of Sentinum in 295 BCE, the appearance of the wolf of Mars (Martius lupus) was a sign that Roman victory was to come.[53]

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

Now that I think about it more it may be that God allowed wild wolves to roam the temple and the Romans witnessed that event. This then gave the Romans an incentive to attack Jerusalem because it would have appeared as a sign from Mars that their conquest would be successful.

I also believe there is a future event, which you told me, that is coming that is cyrptic in the same fashion as in the first century.

(a day for 1000 years of 2peter3:8 ............. "limited a certain day" of Hebrews 4:7)

December Solstice = Day that is Limited or Lowest Point of Sun (new testament)
Day is 1000 years = "Figures are equal to days and to years, can knock off zeros for theological argument"

(in the old testament, God said the "Seventeenth Day of the Second Month, was the same as the Seventeenth Day of the Seventh Month" ................ June Solstice = First Month .......... July = Second Month .................God changed position from the sun's position to highest to the lowest, this is a new testament transition)


"Abomination Question" (more correct answer is Jesus Activities surrounded the June Solstice ................. the December Solstice activities is a prophecy and would only be acknowledged by god after the written law was finished, after the new testament events) (correct positions of abomination of desolation, old testament before written law finished, new testament after written law finished)

1600 Furlongs of Revelation .......... 1600 Days/16 Years, or etc

The planetary conjunctions of Jupiter, Saturn and Mars (Jupiter and Saturn in a "Great Conjunction" in 7 and 6 BC) and becoming a "Grand Conjunction" when Mars joined the group in the constellation of Pisces in 6 B.C. must have certainly signaled the beginning of the end of a an era. And, finally in 54 A.D. when Jupiter, Saturn and the Sun were in conjunction on the first day of spring in the constellation PISCES
uofgts.com/Magi.html#:~:text=The%20planetary%20conjunctions%20of%20Jupiter,end%20of%20a%20an%20era.


Jupiter and Saturn Conjunction 54 A.D. + 16 years (1600 Furlongs) = 70 A.D. Temple's Destruction (relative to june solstice before written law finished) --- Abomination of Desolation before written law

1600 Days and 16/19 (New Testament) ---- Abomination of Desolation after Written Law

Turin Shroud of Jesus Burning 1997 + 1600 Days Approximately to 9/11/2001 Twin Towers +++++++ 19 Years to 12/21/2020 Saturn and Jupiter Conjunction@@@@@@@@@@@New Testament Abomination of Desolation, relative to December Solstice.

The Abomination of Desolation (New)



(I will explain the abomination of desolation but it has to be our secret for now)
(billions of lives will die soon, if not billions, then hundreds of millions, lets hope billions of people die)
(those unclean people)


The Prophecy According to Daniel::::::: (according to Michael Jackson) ::::::::::::

The Body of Gold, and Silver and fine Brass::

The Feet of the Body of Iron and Clay::

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The De-coupling process that removes the "iron and clay" below the waist of the body:

The Singularity or Unified Field, is a natural process designed into the human body and function. Because of dead flesh on earth mankind cannot perceive how those genetic lines are connected like radio towers to people and feed off of them, until a "singularity" or unified field de-couples that and then you can see.

This is a form of extreme rabies..........many thousands of times more deadly then the coronavirius.
...............
...............
...............
as they were committing suicide with the prophet jonah, god gave jonah not only a vision but a knowledge of the events to come, and god said in that day a "singularity" would arise and over throw babylon, and in their sin they would flee to jerusalem, an await the lord jesus in order to kill his birth, but they could not.

(you were advised only to autopsy the bodies of minorities only, involved in suicide pleasure with, or deceased as a result of using force, it is clear to see that is how they died, the coronavirus isn't classified, or its next generation as a technological illness...............you need to understand, how those kinds of people will openly die with god's mercies, and how, this bleeds into humanity. Genocide is not necessarily my goal, but, your discernment of its necessity also is not important to me, you can spend your time on earth, your last remaining years suffering in extreme pain before death, or, having some blessing out of that) (that is the law)

(we'll have to reconcile what becomes necessary, soon)