A rapture mention

a reply to: Raggedyman

Here's the thing. If there were to be a rapture event, not every Christian would be called away. There are plenty who own the name of Christian who know Him not. You know this as well as I. Actually knowing Christ is a deeper thing that simply going to church and acting holier than thou like so many do. Actually knowing Christ and being forgiven and saved is also much more than sitting in a pew and saying "forgive me" every Sunday so you feel free to live a reprehensible life the rest of the time, too, like so many do.

Read the seven letters. There is plenty of talks about problems in the churches. Plenty of Christians in those churches walking astray. Some find there way regardless of the faults, but many will not. Were there to be a rapture, there will be those who call themselves Christian who don't go.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matthew 7: 21-23

a reply to: Akragon

As I said, when I started looking I found several answers right away. That was only one of which provided a possible scenario.

And, why couldn't dinosaurs have eaten vegetation before the flood? I haven't heard that theory before, but won't dismiss it outright.

a reply to: hiddeninsite

Well first there was no flood...

And second, it would be the same reason carnivores don't eat vegies these days... They don't have the right teeth for it, nor are their bodies adapted to eating said food

same reason herbivores don't eat meat

a reply to: hiddeninsite

You know Jesus was tortured, died a horrific death on the cross, as did most of the apostles, much of the early church under Rome, as did the Syrian church more recently.
Stalin sent christians to the Gulags, Hitler imprisoned and hung many, Pol Pot bashed most Christians to death to save bullets
I could talk about the evil done by Christians on others as well, that’s not being denied

My point is, plenty of Christians have suffered, why will God not allow more Christians to suffer. I don’t think you have used much logic in your reasoning
The promise is heaven, nowhere is reduced suffering offered that I can see

a reply to: hiddeninsite

Never question Ak, he knows everything

Water deer, funny creatures, teeth like a Sabre tooth tiger, herbivores
Lions and tigers in World war 2 Germany lived on a vegetable diet as meat wasn’t available. As doesn’t believe in adaptation I guess

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yeah we're talking when meat was obviously abundant.. And IF said story were true its likely the "lions and tigers" died of starvation…

And I mentioned that animals are adapted to eating certain things...

Lets not forget this same guy believes dinosaurs were on the ark...

Anything from Ken ham and his ilk can not be considered reliable information.... more like laughable

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah you are right but
Mathew 7 has nothing to do with prophecy, end time predictions or anything relevant to a rapture event
I see no biblical evidence to a rapture
Mathew 7 and everything before is teaching Christians they are to love others , that without loving others they are not loving God.

Mathew 7 is about true and false followers of Jesus, not prophecy and rapture
I have seen no biblical evidence of a rapture

What irks me mostly about this rapture, Christians are looking for an out, escape, looking for deliverance when Jesus has already done everything.
Christians should not focus on this “event” when clearly our calling is loving others

It seems we are more interested in self service, being served by God than serving
Selfish little Christians who are just greedy demanding more, lost our way

a reply to: Akragon

I believe dinosaurs were on the ark, get over it Ak.
I pity people like you, your spurious Gnosticism or whatever you are?
I note you seem to hide your beliefs, at least Ham doesn’t

Anyway, believe as you will, mocking people for their choices, whatever makes you think you are better than others, good luck to you Ak.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I think you missed part of the context of my post.

I said "If there were to be one" implying that if such a thing were to occur, not all we lump under the label of Christian actually are what is truly a Biblical Christian in terms of salvation, word, deed, and the passage from Matthew underscores this idea.

If such a thing were to happen, just as will happen at the very end when Christ sits in the Judgment Seat, there will be those who think they have their "Get Out of Damnation Free" card who will be sadly disappointed. Honestly, I would prefer a rapture for the simple idea that then those who do get left out at the first gathering would have time to realize why they weren't taken and come back to God.

If they were to only discover their error at the Judgment Seat, it would be far too late for them.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Believe whatever floats your boat... or ark

And I don't hide my beliefs... I just choose not to believe in fairy tales...

Most times theres a logical explanation to fairy tales you find in the bible...

whats more likely... dinosaurs and 2 of EVERY creature on the earth was on the ark

Or

said story was changed... and the story was actually a local flood, and the main character in the story gathered his people and animals onto a boat and survived

Its obvious to some people who understand critical thinking... most people that have religion in their lives don't use said skill...

same idea as the thread's premise... a vague mention of a rapture, even though people suddenly disappearing before a world wide cataclysmic event is a fairy tale

but again believe whatever works for ya man

a reply to: ketsuko

Totally agree, many will find out they got it wrong, many in ministry as well.

But my issue was the rapture and biblical evidence, just havnt seen it anywhere? Be very nice if it was true, just don’t think it is

a reply to: Akragon

A thread about rapture and you bring in the ark and dinosaurs?
Why
I believe because you like to make yourself superior by belittling people and to make you even more a hypocrite, you won’t even tell others what you believe

That’s a coward Ak, in my opinion

As for the flood myth, you havnt a clue what it was, you were not there so yours is just a guess.
I will go with dinosaurs and 2 of every creature on the ark, whatever you want you believe, fine by me.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well your opinions, especially of me are garbage... so

Here is my doom porn rant of the day.

2.And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

11.Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.
12. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: ketsuko

Totally agree, many will find out they got it wrong, many in ministry as well.

But my issue was the rapture and biblical evidence, just havnt seen it anywhere? Be very nice if it was true, just don’t think it is

I don't discount it. I simply don't presume to know. Just because the Bible doesn't come out and say it point blank doesn't mean it isn't there.

Prophecy itself is not direct. Who can say for certain what the end times will end up looking like for sure? If it were clear and direct ... well, let's just say the Jews would not have been as easily able to discount Christ. There wouldn't be the controversy over whether or not he fulfilled prophecy. We'd either know that he did or he did not. No one would be able to deny.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: Claymation213

The word rapture is not in the bible. Always wondered where it came from. Probably some bible belt traveling preacher.

Many people believe that they will go to heaven when they die. But some think that they will be caught away to heaven in what is called the rapture.

The rapture is “the sudden disappearance of millions and millions of people without so much as a trace of where they went!” So said one Protestant evangelist. According to the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, the term “rapture” refers to “the church being united with Christ at his second coming.”

There are varied views of the rapture. The Bible shows that before the start of Christ’s promised Thousand Year Reign, there will be a period called the “great tribulation.” Said Jesus: “Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 20:6) Some place the rapture ahead of the great tribulation. Others expect it during that time. Still others think that the rapture will come after that unparalleled distress.

The posttribulation view was predominant until the early 19th century. Then, in England there developed a movement headed by a former Church of Ireland clergyman, John Nelson Darby. He and like-minded Anglicans became known as the Brethren. From his Plymouth base, Darby traveled to preach in Switzerland and elsewhere in Europe. He asserted that Christ’s return would occur in two stages. It would begin with a secret rapture, in which the “saints” would be caught away before a seven-year period of tribulation devastated the earth. Then Christ would appear visibly, accompanied by these “saints,” and together they would rule on earth for a thousand years.

Darby stressed the need to be separate from the world, and those sharing his views eventually became known as the Exclusive Brethren. B. W. Newton headed a different faction that believed in the rapture but not in a pretribulation one. Posttribulation advocate Alexander Reese maintained that “the Secret-Rapture theories are a menace to the hope of Christ’s Coming.”

Pretribulationists believe that this difference in viewpoint is serious enough to affect “the nature of [their] hope in relation to the coming of Christ.” Others place confidence in a “partial rapture theory,” believing that those who are most loyal to Christ will be raptured first and the more worldly will be taken later.

Many evangelical groups herald an imminent rapture of faithful Christians. In view of differing opinions, however, a booklet published by Britain’s Elim Pentecostal Church says: “Whilst we subscribe to a broad outline of events related to the return of the Lord Jesus . . . , freedom is allowed in the interpreting of prophecy according to the conviction of the individual. Many accept a non-dogmatic position, patiently waiting for the events themselves to unfold the prophetic programme.”

God’s inspired Word, the Bible, is the standard by which we need to measure the truthfulness of all beliefs. (2 Timothy 1:13; 3:16, 17) Therefore, what does it say about the rapture?

‘Caught Away to Meet the Lord’​—How? (1993)

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The word “rapture” does not appear in the Bible. But those who believe in it cite the apostle Paul’s words at 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as the basis for their belief. Let us examine this scripture in its context. ...

Rapture (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

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When the apostle Paul said that Christians would be “caught up” to be with the Lord, what subject was being discussed?
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Who are the ones that will be ‘caught up in the clouds,’ as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:17?
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Will Christ appear visibly on a cloud and then take away faithful Christians into the heavens while the world looks on?

Did Jesus say whether the world would see him again with their physical eyes?

John 14:19, RS: “Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more, but you [his faithful disciples] will see me; because I live, you will live also.” (Italics added.) (Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)

What is the meaning of the Lord’s ‘descending from heaven’?

Could the Lord “descend from heaven,” as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, without being visible to physical eyes? In the days of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah said that he was going to “go down to see” what the people were doing. (Gen. 18:21, RS) But when Jehovah made that inspection, no human saw him, although they did see the angelic representatives that he sent. (John 1:18) Similarly, without having to return in the flesh, Jesus could turn his attention to his faithful followers on earth to reward them.

In what sense, then, will humans “see” the Lord “coming in a cloud”?

Jesus foretold: “Then they will see the Son of man [Jesus Christ] coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” (Luke 21:27, RS) In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19. Consider: At Mount Sinai, what occurred when God ‘came to the people in a thick cloud,’ as stated at Exodus 19:9? (RS) God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come “in a cloud,” he must have meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence. They would “see” him with their mental eyes, discerning the fact that he was present. (For further comments, see the main heading “Return of Christ.”)

Is it possible for Christians to be taken to heaven with their physical bodies?

1 Cor. 15:50, RS: “I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”
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Will faithful Christians perhaps be taken to heaven secretly, simply disappearing from the earth without dying?
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Matthew 24:40-41 is often used as proof that a rapture occurs before the great tribulation, but if you look at verse 29, the context is after the great tribulation, at the second coming.

Matthew 24:32-42 KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Those taken are those who are gathered up to be in the clouds with Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Those left behind are those that die by the sword coming out of the mouth of Jesus.

Revelation 19:11-21 KJV

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

At the end, after the saved are gathered, the wicked who are still left on earth will die when Jesus speaks the Word from His mouth (the sword). The birds will feast on their flesh.

There is only one "rapture". The second coming.