The Anti-Christian conspiracy

You need to reread what i`ve said from my original post in this page and see that i have covered what your saying before you say it.
Edit
oops it just turned to 91,i mean on page 90

and i`ll add that if you cant be honest with yourself and admit that i`ve covered these things and that you twist everything around then you cant be honest with me either ,so i`m done with this with you until you can.

[edit on 1-2-2006 by gps777]

i have read what you've written, and to sum it up:

you believe that if you tell someone about god, that they can go to heaven, that jesus is your lord and saviour, that somehow that makes you 'caring'.

but what you don't like is when an atheist voices their opinion about god, saying he's not real, and saying you're not going to heaven. so howcome if you voice your opinion is it 'caring', but when an atheist does so, it's part of an anti-christian conspiracy?

Shaunybaby - I'm curious who has told you that you are going to hell. And does it irritate you that much that you obsess about it and take out your feelings with sarcasm and mockery?

I'm not sure where you are coming from. What point are you trying to make by writing out a joke? Is this the Joke Forum? Is that supposed to shock or awe? How does this "disprove" a conspiracy? Who has led you to believe that such an innocent joke would lead to damnation? Seriously, I've heard jokes far worse regarding "Christianity" and I never told the tellers that they were "going to hell". I think you're hung up on some twisted stereotype.

No conspiracy? Out of all the conspiracies on the ATS Board you settle on this one. Why? Are you going to take them all on? Prove the religious conspiracy doesn't exist...you can't any more than those who may believe otherwise... but at least make some non-overgeneralized contributions to that end. You might have something to say but the way you are going about it is less than constructive. I think some valid observations have been made with regard to a theoretical conspiracy. Where are the valuable counterpoints?

What are your qualifications for being such an authority...didn't I run into a post of yours on BTS Literature where you admit to not reading books. So where do you get your innate knowledge? Divine intervention? As a result you are not fully informed. Being "Christian" does not mean that one doesn't subscribe to the theory of evolution. The two aren't exclusive by default. Again, it depends where upon the "Christianity" spectrum one sits. Just as non-"Christians" do not all share the same ideas, such is the same within "Christianity".

I guess your method has grown out of a number of "Christians" telling you that you are "going to hell" and by the same token you tell these "Christians" and unrelated others on ATS that there is no God, etc. Great. I'm no fan of either viewpoint. Do you realize that within "Christianity" (again this largely vague group containing numerous beliefs and sects) some religions feel this way about other groups within "Christianity". My viewpoint is not anti-atheism. Far from it. My problem is with ridiculous and unsupported generalizations. You're building your message atop a foundation of popsicle sticks.

GPS777: I didn't intend to say that all bad grammar is found only in negative posts. But a whole lot of silly negativism and verbal assaults seem to contain poorly developed ideas, taunts, half-witted mish mash, no capital letters (...so 1998), misspellings, etc.

[edit on 1-2-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Shaunybaby - I'm curious who has told you that you are going to hell.

according to a christian's belief i am. if i don't accept jesus as my saviour...i'm going to hell. sorry if it's confusing for you.

And does it irritate you that much that you obsess about it and take out your feelings with sarcasm and mockery?

no, what irritates me is the fact that gps77 seems to think somehow he's ''caring'', if he tells me god exists.

I think some valid observations have been made with regard to a theoretical conspiracy. Where are the valuable counterpoints?

i don't think i need any counterpoints to 'the simpsons' and 'neighbours'...even though there were counter points said, basically because the person didn't understand the simpsons, or it's religious characters.

What are your qualifications for being such an authority...didn't I run into a post of yours on BTS Literature where you admit to not reading books.

since when did i say i had any authority? and as for reading, i was more talking about fictional books...i just have no interest in reading many fictional books, that's all. so i'm not sure, by not reading the entire harry potter series, how that makes me less intelligent...as you seem to be assuming.

you've obviously got 'some' problem with me, yet i'm not even sure what it's supposed to be.

[edit on 1-2-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts

GPS777: I didn't intend to say that all bad grammar is found only in negative posts. But a whole lot of silly negativism and verbal assaults seem to contain poorly developed ideas, taunts, half-witted mish mash, no capital letters (...so 1998), misspellings, etc.

More for the reason of clarity i had to point it out,knowing full well you did`nt or dont mean this for everyone as a blanket statement.

If not pointed out i could see how some people could and would misinterpret your views,much better being pointed out from a bro than from someone looking for an excuse to oppose.

my joke, well not mine, but the one i posted about god, jesus and moses playing golf, was mocking christianity. christianity was the center of that joke. but saintforgod seemed to find it funny... so some jokes and mocking of christianity are part of an anti-christian conspiracy...but others aren't? would 'monty python and the holy grail' be part of this conspiracy? what about the movie 'the last temptation of christ'? seems that a few christians on here think that neighbours and simpsons also contribute to this anti-christian conspiracy. you seem to forget that with these perhaps 'negative' programmes that you believe show christianity in a poor light, there are also 'positive' ones too. what about the indiana jones trilogy, and more specifically the ones about the arc of the convenent and the holy grail. both movies were based on the fact that everything that happened in the bible was pure truth, and that there really was a god. so for every negative you think there is, there's also a positive...maybe you just overlooked the faith based indiana jones movies.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
my joke, well not mine, but the one i posted about god, jesus and moses playing golf, was mocking christianity. christianity was the center of that joke. but saintforgod seemed to find it funny...

Yeah, but I don't see where it mocks Christianity. In fact, it shows the omnipotence of God and that He would have a sense of humor with those He loves. Am I way off base here?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so some jokes and mocking of christianity are part of an anti-christian conspiracy...but others aren't? would 'monty python and the holy grail' be part of this conspiracy?

Have you seen Spamalot? Got to see that two months ago in New York . It was awesome.



There was some edgy stuff, but nothing I thought that mocked Christianity. The most offensive stuff I've seen come from the movie is that Arthur is wearing Baal on his tabard and yet talking to God...but those are in the details and doubt the creators were trying to tool it. Could be wrong. Life of Brian was more Anti-Christian than any of the other works I think.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
what about the movie 'the last temptation of christ'?

That one was interesting. Kinda reminded folks that he was both human and God...though I don't agree that Christ had a dualistic nature, rather is both God and man, not a part of each. Interesting ending though, and with a good point.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
seems that a few christians on here think that neighbours and simpsons also contribute to this anti-christian conspiracy.

I think it shows Christians as detestable and boring, but it makes fathers look even worse. As long as one doesn't template the show as a standard of real life and go, "yeah really, that's like real life" I'm not sure I have an issue, though not a show I watch.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
you seem to forget that with these perhaps 'negative' programmes that you believe show christianity in a poor light, there are also 'positive' ones too. what about the indiana jones trilogy, and more specifically the ones about the arc of the convenent and the holy grail. both movies were based on the fact that everything that happened in the bible was pure truth, and that there really was a god. so for every negative you think there is, there's also a positive...maybe you just overlooked the faith based indiana jones movies.

I didn't like the second one so much that I didn't bother with the third. The first one was pretty kickin' and agree there is a lot of Christian influence in some movies. Seems to be diminished but depends on what you watch.


[edit on 2-2-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Yeah, but I don't see where it mocks Christianity. In fact, it shows the omnipotence of God and that He would have a sense of humor with those He loves. Am I way off base here?

no you're way on point. that's what i hoped you would have said. basically because even though you think there's all this 'anti-christian' stuff...there's still a lot of postive.

Life of Brian was more Anti-Christian than any of the other works I think.

the thing about life of brian is that brian 'IS NOT' jesus or for that fact, even playing the character jesus. so it shouldn't be seen at all to mock jesus.

That one was interesting. Kinda reminded folks that he was both human and God...though I don't agree that Christ had a dualistic nature, rather is both God and man, not a part of each. Interesting ending though, and with a good point.

so maybe that shows jesus in a good light. nothing anti-christian there.

I didn't like the second one so much that I didn't bother with the third. The first one was pretty kickin' and agree there is a lot of Christian influence in some movies. Seems to be diminished but depends on what you watch.

well the fact is that there perhaps is negative things out there against christianity, but as you've just proven...there's a lot of positive too. if there were almost nil positive, i think you would have a point. but there are many positives out there, hence no conspiracy whatsoever.

Originally posted by saint4God
Life of Brian was more Anti-Christian than any of the other works I think.
[edit on 2-2-2006 by saint4God]

This always makes me want to bash my head against a wall. Why is the Life of Brian anti-christian, pray tell? Jesus appears on it exactly once, at the beginning, showing part of the Sermon on the Mount. He is not mocked in any way, apart from when one character mishears what he says and thinks that a greek will be blessed (You know, 'blessed are the meek'?) The mistake is soon put right.

I think there are many examples of christian jokes such as the golf example and shows poking fun at christianity, that God would find very amusing. Just because the priority of these is to make people laugh doesn't mean that they're always involved in a conspiracy against christianity as a result. I think God understands that religion, christianity and himself all present greta opportunities to develop comical stories around. I can't see that the Life of Brian or the golf joke paint christians in a negative light. I think more blame lies in the what some people read into them. As far as the Simpsons goes, I think there are times when they do paint christians in a negative light, such as Ned Flanders bashing, but there are also times when this is not the case, and as such can't see that the Simpsons' main priority is conspiring to debunk christianity. An example is the episode where Homer creates his own religion and ends up burning his house down. Very funny, and definitely hindered the Simpsons efforts to lead the anti-christian conspiracy.

Originally posted by Darkmind
apart from when one character mishears what he says and thinks that a greek will be blessed (You know, 'blessed are the meek'?) The mistake is soon put right.

Its been a long time since i`ve seen Life of Brian and that jolted my memory of it,that parts hilarious.
Also "He`s not the messiah He`s just a very naughty boy"it was funny because it was true.

Theirs another show similar about Moses,with the main actor from the movie Arther the drunk millionaire forget his name?He died of Alzheimer's i think.Dudley Moore thats Him.

Anyway i dont think anyone`s disputing that there are shows that are purely for comedy,though i do believe some jokes or shows are purely to offend or discredit Christianity, it does`nt surprise me either so i`m not offended.I can just imagine when i see those things,some people who dont follow Christ applauding and cheering so to speak and i`ve seen that for myself.Is that a conspiracy?depends on who it was and what their intentions were for making the joke or show.It may have been intentional it may just be playing to public opinion,who can really say.

The Simpsons,they show old Ned as a good hearted Christian fella always being taken advantage of by Homer though he remains Godly about it and a lot of the time Homer does try and repay him in kind.Nothin wrong there.Though it is suggestive of how you can take advantage of a Christians nature,and i also believe they included Ned so that it seems a balanced show,parents in turn might view this as ok,kids are more interested in Barts or Homers behavior,and thats what they`ll learn from,that and other negatives imo.




[edit on 3-2-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777
He died of Alzheimer's i think.Dudley Moore thats Him.

dudley moore's still beating around the bush. it's peter cook is 'other half' who died.

though i do believe some jokes or shows are purely to offend or discredit Christianity, it does`nt surprise me either so i`m not offended.

could you name a few...

i also believe they included Ned so that it seems a balanced show,parents in turn might view this as ok,kids are more interested in Barts or Homers behavior,and thats what they`ll learn from,that and other negatives imo.

ned's merely the stereotypical christian, in the same as homer is just the stereotypical dumb fat white guy. have you forgotten that the simpsons also go to church...just about the whole town goes to church..i mean where are they, the bible belt of america? but however much you try and bring the simpsons down, doesn't mean there's a conspiracy to debunk the christian faith...especially since the program has all the characters go to church etc...

Some stand up comedy shows,current affair shows,radio shows.

Look up some jokes yourself.I`m not interested in remembering or looking for jokes i know i`ve heard.

What about the lack of shows as well Christmas for example and Easter,its non existant now over here.Just in case it offends others beliefs.Yet prime time on a channel over here they have a show dedicated to Islam.

How many occult shows showing on prime time over there?Charmed,sabrina the teenage witch ,Angel,Buffy,bewitched,i dream of jenie etc etc,any idea what a jinn is shauny?some things are suggestive that you would`nt notice anyway
Childrens cartoons are full of it,why???do you think that is?

Though the occult is ok and Christianity might offend others beliefs?





[edit on 3-2-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
no you're way on point. that's what i hoped you would have said. basically because even though you think there's all this 'anti-christian' stuff...there's still a lot of postive.

I'm wit it, and it's not the "conspiracy" I'm talking about. I'm talking about people making a conscious, serious and deliberate effort to tear down Christianity by any means possible. Yeah, there's a ripple-effect that results, but it very difficult to measure size, quantity, and intensity.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the thing about life of brian is that brian 'IS NOT' jesus or for that fact, even playing the character jesus. so it shouldn't be seen at all to mock jesus.

I thought of it more as a mock on people. The people in the movie are portrayed as mindless Neanderthals following anyone or anything that sounds deep. If anything, I'm surprised that humanists aren't moreso offended. I like the song, "Always look on the bright-side of life" as it is upbeat and a catchy tune, however it trivializes death to the point of saying, "oh well, who cares?" whereas I think it is important to care and plan carefully for our post-mortem future. The implication was that back then, Jesus' job was easy since people were pathetic morons, as I see the movie. That simply was not the case, and the language of the Bible is confusing for even Biblical scholars in today's world. Not because they're big or foreign words, rather conceptually there's made mention of some serious sociological thinking and revolutionary methodologies. I admit, I was entertained by Life of Brian while watching it, but afterwards I thought, "hey, that's pretty messed up..." Sometimes I'm quick to laugh and slow to think. If I recall correctly, Jesus got "canned" in the beginning and replaced by Brian. The Bible talks about that happening, just not in a comical way.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so maybe that shows jesus in a good light. nothing anti-christian there.

It's a real thinker! As I'm sure the writer of the movie intended. I think it has a degree of anti-muslim...or at least some integrated muslim thought but I'm no expert so best if I keep those opinions to myself. For me, the jury is still out on it, but I'm glad I saw it because it gave another firm idea of why it was so important for Jesus to die for us on the cross that day. I really liked Paul in that movie too.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
well the fact is that there perhaps is negative things out there against christianity, but as you've just proven...there's a lot of positive too. if there were almost nil positive, i think you would have a point. but there are many positives out there, hence no conspiracy whatsoever.

Just because there's a positive does not mean there is no negative. A lot of our Taoist friends here would have issue with that if it were true. Anyway, it would be nice to ignore the negatives, but that's not to say they don't exist.

[edit on 3-2-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by gps777
Some stand up comedy shows,current affair shows,radio shows. Look up some jokes yourself.I`m not interested in remembering or looking for jokes i know i`ve heard.

well i personally don't see anything that would count as trying to debunk the christian faith in a secret conspiracy, merely because they're telling jokes. the fact that you can't remember these jokes...may seem as though they're not all that important.

What about the lack of shows as well Christmas for example and Easter,its non existant now over here.Just in case it offends others beliefs.

sorry? what was that? on sky digital in england there's atleast 5 god channels, bringing you 24/7 godness. i'm thinking there must be similar channels in america...or even more so with the televangelist fad. too right, and why should a muslim or hindu have to be subjected to christmas and easter, which are so commercialized are impossible to avoid.

Yet prime time on a channel over here they have a show dedicated to Islam.

what are you saying, they shouldn't have their own shows? one whole show dedicated to islam...omg people, what has the world come to!!

How many occult shows showing on prime time over there?Charmed,sabrina the teenage witch ,Angel,Buffy etc etc

what would you 'insist' we watch instead of these occult shows?

Christianity might offend others beliefs?

the thing is chrsitians don't care who they offend. they don't care so long as they get their ID in to school teaching systems, or their televangelists on TV. so you've got preachers on tv, you're trying to get ID forced in to school, you want less islamic and occult programmes on tv, you want everyone to shut up and accept easter and christmas holidays... and yet you're here complaining that it's ''other'' people that are part of the conspiracy. anyone would think christians were trying to take over the world with super 15 million dollar places of worship, televangelists left right and center, and with christmas...there biggest commercialized holiday ever.

and if you think christians never get a say, or anti-christian things are never banned:

On its initial UK release the film was banned by some town councils (several even took great pleasure in banning it, even though they had no cinemas within their boundaries). This proved rather pointless, since people who wanted to see the film merely went to places where it was not banned. The film was also banned for eight years in the Republic of Ireland and for a year in Norway (it was marketed in Sweden as "the movie that is so funny it was banned in Norway!"). The film was not released in Italy until 1990, eleven years after it was made. The film was not shown on Jersey until 2001. The Bailiff of Jersey wanted it to be watched only by adults, even though the BBFC rated it suitable for those aged 14 or over.

that's talking about life of brian...

[edit on 3-2-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm talking about people making a conscious, serious and deliberate effort to tear down Christianity by any means possible.

would you like more televagelists ''spreading the word''. perhaps ''everyone'' should be made to celebrate christmas, and maybe they could make it against the law to not celebrate it...would that make you happy? because at the moment, no matter what position christianity is in, you seem to be complaining that it's not in a good enough one.

I thought of it more as a mock on people. The people in the movie are portrayed as mindless Neanderthals following anyone or anything that sounds deep.

but don't people today just ''follow''? the music in the top 20, often is barely listenable, but why are they in the top 20 with rubbish music? because people follow, and people want to buy in to that lifestyle, without too much thought process going on. as you say...just mindless neanderthals, who can't think or do anything for themselves, so they buy magazines to tell them what to do.

Just because there's a positive does not mean there is no negative.

i didn't say there were no negatives. i was pointing out that they pretty much even themselves out.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
would you like more televagelists ''spreading the word''.

That depends on who's word they're spreading. Candidly most I find are boring and wonder where they're going many times, though there are a few who have made really good points. I don't know, something about watching someone talk on TV that puts me to sleep. Radio doubly so.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
perhaps ''everyone'' should be made to celebrate christmas, and maybe they could make it against the law to not celebrate it...would that make you happy?

No. There's no such thing as "forced love".

Originally posted by shaunybaby
because at the moment, no matter what position christianity is in, you seem to be complaining that it's not in a good enough one.

I'm very happy with the freedoms allowed me, to believe what I've seen, and to exercise speech. In no way do I feel persecuted at this time...well, perhaps a little repressed by being disallowed to mention God at work without getting the proverbial belt lashing. I may test the limits of that because work isn't a central part of my life anymore.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
but don't people today just ''follow''?

Not really, not when it comes to believing in God, death and other such serious issues.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the music in the top 20, often is barely listenable, but why are they in the top 20 with rubbish music? because people follow, and people want to buy in to that lifestyle, without too much thought process going on. as you say...just mindless neanderthals, who can't think or do anything for themselves, so they buy magazines to tell them what to do.

Wow. Perhaps you could consider a career in Advertising with that mindset. Okay shauny, since you're a "people" do as I say and follow God. See how hard that is?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i didn't say there were no negatives. i was pointing out that they pretty much even themselves out.

Eh, never even I think. Either one or the other predominantly. I don't think there's a "perfect balance" no matter how you slice the pie. Go to church, mostly talk about God. Go to work, no talk about God. Go to the store, very very little talk about God.


[edit on 3-2-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I thought of it more as a mock on people. The people in the movie are portrayed as mindless Neanderthals following anyone or anything that sounds deep. If anything, I'm surprised that humanists aren't moreso offended... If I recall correctly, Jesus got "canned" in the beginning and replaced by Brian. The Bible talks about that happening, just not in a comical way.
[edit on 3-2-2006 by saint4God]

No. Go back and see it again. Brian falls from the balcony, knocks out a so-called prophet, takes his place by mistake, and has to start talking so as not to call attention to himself. He doesn't do very well, but attracts a crowd by starting a sentence and then failing to finish it. The people aren't morons, they're just people in need of someone to believe in. It's also a comedy. It wasn't making a serious socio-political statement, it was a comedy about religion. And the Romans too.
And what are you talking about with the "Jesus got canned" statement? Eh? He is seen at the start of the film giving the sermon on the mount, with crowds around him. Brian does NOT replace him.

Originally posted by saint4God
Wow. Perhaps you could consider a career in Advertising with that mindset.

not sure if that's genuine, but yes i am interested in a career in media. hope to own and run a successful business one day too.

Go to church, mostly talk about God. Go to work, no talk about God. Go to the store, very very little talk about God.

well it's not my fault people aren't talking about your christian god at work. maybe they'd prefer to 'work' than get in to a discussion about monotheistic religions. and the store, need i say anymore? why would god be discussed in a store. you probably won't hear people talk about evolution in a store, so why bother stating that people talk very very little about god in a store...not sure what point you were making.

at the end of the day, what is the point in this discussion. you've made up your mind already that there is significant evidence to show a secret conspiracy to debunk the christian faith. i'm not sure on what logical boundaries you've made your assumptions and come to this conclusion, because so far i've seen nothing of the sort, that suggests a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Darkmind
No. Go back and see it again. Brian falls from the balcony, knocks out a so-called prophet, takes his place by mistake, and has to start talking so as not to call attention to himself.

But the prophet he knocks off speaks like Jesus, talking about how we need to love one, seeking truth and such, right?

Originally posted by Darkmind
He doesn't do very well, but attracts a crowd by starting a sentence and then failing to finish it. The people aren't morons, they're just people in need of someone to believe in. It's also a comedy. It wasn't making a serious socio-political statement, it was a comedy about religion. And the Romans too.
And what are you talking about with the "Jesus got canned" statement? Eh?

See above.

Originally posted by Darkmind
He is seen at the start of the film giving the sermon on the mount, with crowds around him. Brian does NOT replace him.

Oh, so they didn't have Brian bear his cross, put on that cross at the end, and gives final words to one next to him as in the gospels?







Maybe we're not watching the same film. Either that or we haven't read the same gospel.


[edit on 3-2-2006 by saint4God]