Did Trump just accidentally end our forever war in Iraq?

Should he respect rules if they don't ?

Should Trump respect International laws just because terrorists don't? Um.. YEA! Why would anyone even ask that? What is Trump and his followers suggesting - that we ignore International laws and just do whatever terrorists do because it's fair that way? LMAO...

Boggles that mind that Trump even suggested it, and even more than people support this terrorist mindset. Wow.. he really is going unhinged, and taking his flock with him apparently.

a reply to: dashen

He just started a war with Iran, which is now no longer pausing the enrichment of uranium. I still remember the Iraq-Iran war of the '80s. We certainly don't need a united front confronting our soldiers in the Middle East. That is a no win situation, as it was for the millions killed in that war.

Trump's action was an insane maneuver to distract from the illegal actions that got him impeached. Maybe he and Netanyahu want war, but most Americans and Israelis don't, I'd bet.

Trump's action was an insane maneuver to distract from the illegal actions that got him impeached. Maybe he and Netanyahu want war, but most Americans and Israelis don't, I'd bet.

I keep hearing that, but I don't believe it. I honestly don't think he even thinks that far ahead. He was PO'd about the embassy, he was given suggestions on retaliation - the assassination was on the list to make the others more palatable. But then he was convinced by others that it was the best choice. Maybe Pompeo and Pence realized this would distract from impeachment proceedings, and recommended it. Trump is easily swayed by politicians who know how to push his buttons.

Oh.. and the premise that this was "part of the plan" to get out of the middle east is laughable. Trump has heavily threatened Iraq now with blistering sanctions if they do. That's just another thing he didn't consider that might happen.

a reply to: fleabit
iv just seen that the U.S troops are pulling out of Iraq all of them

a reply to: TheRedneck

That's what war is. Like it or not, when you are going up against someone else who wants to kill you, you have only two choices: kill them first, or be killed.

Civilians can and do die in war as collateral damage, but they are rarely the intended as targets. That is a war crime.

I will refer to an old movie that I watched many years ago, called Red Dawn.

I suppose you've seen the movie The Patriot, with Mel Gibson?

Just because terrorists fly a plane into a building full of civilians and murdered them does not give the US the moral authority or right to intentionally target civilians for slaughter, which you seem to condone, and which is why I asked the question:

Is targeting civilians or becoming as base as those against you're fighting ok? Is it right or wrong, is it acceptable?

That is NOT what war is. Does it happen, yes. It's also a crime, and it is not morally or ethically right.

18 U.S. Code § 2441. War crimes

Period.

Your morality in the face of immorality be damned.

Then we are no better than the animals we fight, and our moral authority is gone.

I will neither support nor condone that. You may if you wish.

Good day.

originally posted by: tempestking
a reply to: fleabit
iv just seen that the U.S troops are pulling out of Iraq all of them

No, there was a badly worded letter, that made it seem that was the case, but the Pentagon said this was not the case at all, and all that is happening are some troops are being re-positioned. Also Trump made it clear to Iraq that we would sanction Iraq -much- worse than Iran, if they were to remove our troops. So.. no, don't think so. Unless they kick us out regardless of threats of sanctions, and we have no choice. Even then I'm sure we'd just shuffle them somewhere else in the middle east - I wouldn't plan on Trump getting any troops home anytime soon.

originally posted by: GBP/JPY
I figured the reason that U S A was still there to hang out in their 19 new bases....military bases located where that bunch wanted them......was the talk on the street 3 years ago.....stuff like that

We can send all the troops home and leave those 19 bases for ISIS 2.0 to take over and facilitate their next massive attack on western soil, seems like a solid plan.

a reply to: Liquesence

Civilians can and do die in war as collateral damage, but they are rarely the intended as targets. That is a war crime.

We seem to agree on the fact that Soleimani was a war criminal, then.

Now, which civilians has Trump targeted? I don't care what he said... I heard that. He said he would retaliate if Iran attacked the US and that some of his targets were cultural in nature. I suppose you have direct evidence that these sites are not being used, as many have been in the past, as "safe zones" for combatants? Can you share your source for this data? I am very interested in hearing all about your revelations as to what occurred in the Situation Room.

Or... if you won't reveal the source for this information you claim to have, well, then I will have to assume you don't really have any information on these cultural sites or their actual uses. In other words, pics or it didn't happen. If you do not have any such information, that means you are condemning a man for defending your country, while defending another for attacking it. Am I understanding you correctly? You are defending the man who killed your countrymen, while attacking the man who is trying to defend your countrymen?

Do you hate America that bad? Enough to see it burn in fires of Hell and dance about it?

Yeah... and you want to condemn me...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Now, which civilians has Trump targeted? I don't care what he said... I heard that. He said he would retaliate if Iran attacked the US and that some of his targets were cultural in nature. I suppose you have direct evidence that these sites are not being used, as many have been in the past, as "safe zones" for combatants? Can you share your source for this data? I am very interested in hearing all about your revelations as to what occurred in the Situation Room.

None yet, thankfully. Maybe calm down and stop with the BS and hyperbole. It's unbecoming.

But I do care what he said. Especially if he acts on it, which he might, because he's a lunatic and has already tindered a fire he seems incapable of dealing with.

Or... if you won't reveal the source for this information you claim to have,

All I have is what Trump said. I do not know if he will follow through, but knowing his irrationality (and the strike on Soleimani), I am concerned.

Do you hate America that bad? Enough to see it burn in fires of Hell and dance about it?

I love my country, America. I love it enough to not see it burned down by a petty man intent on saving his ass through whatever means necessary, including potentially starting a war.

That aside, it doesn't matter. I used to respect you, even I disagreed, but from your most recent post, I get it. It's futile and there's no basis for discourse if you believe what you write.

Good night.

a reply to: Liquesence

None yet, thankfully.

Then what's the problem with Trump over this? He has not threatened a pre-emptive strike; he has promised retaliatory strikes.

Iran has been attacking us and our allies in the region for decades. Iranian operatives have killed many of our soldiers, Americans, pre-emptively, without warning, without care. Iran has attacked ships, attacked our embassy, heck, a splinter group attacked a US air base in Kenya! And you are afraid we might anger them?

They're already angry. We made them angry in 1979, and this is just more of the same. The only difference is they're upping the ante.

But I do care what he said. Especially if he acts on it, which he might, because he's a lunatic and has already tindered a fire he seems incapable of dealing with.

Do you not care what Iran said?

That's the problem I have. You believe (and it is a belief, with zero evidence) that Trump is the cause of everything bad in the world. Got news for ya... Trump is a latecomer to the circuit. We've had people trying to lead and doing a damn poor job of it for as long as I can remember.

As far as not being capable of dealing with the situation, his tactic worked once. Maybe you're too young to remember Reagan and the Iranian Hostage Crisis; I'm not. Iran held 52 hostages for 444 days, over a year, while Carter could do nothing using the same tactics that have been used. Reagan came into office on the promise that as soon as he was sworn in there would be missiles heading to Iran. We had songs about it! I still have a few copies of an old 45 RPM single of "Message to Khomeni."* That is, IMO, what pushed him over the finish line and got him elected! Well, January 20 came, the whole country was on edge just as you are now, worried that Reagan was going to start a war... lo and behold, as he was being sworn in, Iran was sending back 444 hostages... alive.

Sometimes the hard line stance is the only thing that works. What we've been doing since Reagan certainly hasn't done a damn thing positive or we wouldn't be in this mess.

I love my country, America. I love it enough to not see it burned down by a petty man intent on saving his ass through whatever means necessary, including potentially starting a war.

You hide it very well.

The war has been ongoing for 40 years. Iran is at war with us; we are playing footsie with them. They attack us; we send them money, we talk nice, we ask them to please not do that again while we bury our children. They attack us again, and it's rinse, wash, repeat. Finally, we have someone willing to say no, this far and no farther or else... and you complain! Those are the actions of someone who wants America to fall!

Iran can cause as many 911s as they want; they already have people in place here, right now, ready, willing, and able to pull it off. We've done a good job of thwarting attempts since 911, but we have to be right all the time. Terrorists only have to get it right once.

Maybe it is extreme naivety... maybe you really do think that if we're just nice to Iran they'll be nice to us. But if it is, it is a dangerous naivety that will get the very people you claim to love dead. If that is your idea of love, please, please, I am begging you, don't love America any more!

You need to seriously get a grip and understand what is going on here. We may well be looking at an all-out war. Tying the hands of the only person who can defend us because he is defending us is not a rational solution.

* Apparently I'm not the only one to still remember that song... it's cheesy, but here's a blast from the past, the last time we successfully defended ourselves against Iranian aggression:
TheRedneck

I think the Iranian attack on airbases with U.S. troops today sort of ends this train of thought. The Trump administration saying the attacked to stop a war is laughable, and this proves why. The U.S. will retaliate - so will then Iran, until war - which I imagine is what they wanted all along.

originally posted by: cfnyaami
a reply to: dashen

He just started a war with Iran, which is now no longer pausing the enrichment of uranium. I still remember the Iraq-Iran war of the '80s. We certainly don't need a united front confronting our soldiers in the Middle East. That is a no win situation, as it was for the millions killed in that war.

Trump's action was an insane maneuver to distract from the illegal actions that got him impeached. Maybe he and Netanyahu want war, but most Americans and Israelis don't, I'd bet.

Israel said yesterday "don't look at us..it wasn't us, and we want no part of this"

I'm sure they are happy enough behind closed doors

a reply to: vonclod

The threat of long range missles over israel is not a pleasant contingency for military planners.

None yet, thankfully. Maybe calm down and stop with the BS and hyperbole. I

a reply to: Liquesence

You first! None yet! That’s one thing Obama did thats Trump has not. You might want to think about that. I’m continually amazed at how so many people gave O a pass on so many things but Orange man bad has the Left and all the never Trumpers in a frenzy for standing up to an Iranian terrorist. It’s not like Iran hasn’t been a thing for so many years, but remember who helped Iran in their quest to go nuclear and who gave them 150 BILLION DOLLARS ... only to have them turn around and attack oil tankers in the shipping lane and the many other things they have done to harass.
I think we all know who appeased them and why, who did not appease.
We have yet to see how this turns out. But I am pretty sure about one thing. Obama was never on our side and Trump is, so I’m going to stick with him.
I do remember what Dinesh DSouza said in one of his documentary films... that Obamas intent was to take America down a notch and I do remember how O used to go around apologizing for America and bowing down to world leaders in appeasement like a little doggie who rolls over for his master in
Submission. I remember the nasty thing O said about our own beloved America and how he continually tried to sell us down the river of the world stage giving everybody else the advantage because he thinks that America is bad.
I don’t understand how you can not have seen all this.
I personally remember when the Iran hostage crisis was going on ... that was Carter/Brzezinski! Carter was a trilateral.
There is no “ we deserved it because”.... I keep hearing this from people. We have been fairly fortunate to have as little terrorism on our land as we had ... and my eyes are not closed to Bush... I’m fully aware... but Trump is truly someone different and they all hate him for challenging their New World Order.

originally posted by: fleabit
I think the Iranian attack on airbases with U.S. troops today sort of ends this train of thought. The Trump administration saying the attacked to stop a war is laughable, and this proves why. The U.S. will retaliate - so will then Iran, until war - which I imagine is what they wanted all along.

People are saying that Iran deliberately MISSSeD and that they are trying to save face while trying to deescalate. We will see won’t we. Obama’s 150
Billion payoff didn’t work...

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: dashen

The Iranis will find the Kurds in the whey.

Cheers

Hah. Cheese.