New Zealand’s gun confiscation program just failed miserably

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?

TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Where is a fair and safe society please do tell. Guantanamo Bay?

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

Where the rule of law in a gentle society defends people.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: chr0naut

Has it occurred to you that it is possible to choose not to hunt feral hogs or coyotes?

Feral animal numbers can be held in check far more effectively through trapping and baits.

Actually horribly wrong, several states have listed feral hogs as varmints with a 365 day season and no bag limit and they still have an exploding population.

So, you are saying that hunting them without limit is proving ineffective to manage a pest species.

How can that be???

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?

TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

So in your world fair and safe means even the criminals and animals play the game that you want?
NEWS FLASH
It won't happen that way and it will be way too late for people who listed you as an asset when that fateful moment a rapist with a gun/knife/shiv/club or razor wire attacks. Or a rabid Tasmanian Devil charges right at them. In America the wild hogs attack things they don't like and some can get over 1000 #. You have to climb a tree and hope someone comes along with a gun or you could be there a long time.

ETA
Wild Hog, Turkey seem to taste better too than the domesticated varieties.

New Zealand - gun deaths per 100,000 people - 1.07

US - gun deaths per 100,000 people - 12.21

Sort of says it all.

and:

Tasmanian devil
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a reply to: chr0naut

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

So you are saying there are no criminals in New Zealand?

Quite a claim. Do you have streets made of gold, too?

TheRedneck

NZ gun confiscation was a total failure and has helped in stopping exactly ZERO gun crimes

A meaningless knee jerk reaction by a group of fools with no concept of what they are doing

Supported by low-iq and low-info fools who have no concept of what they are taking about

The gun confiscation was a total failure

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Krakatoa

Yet, instead of being an adult and accepting that and apologizing, you weasel out of that by attacking me personally.

I have nothing to apologise for and where did I attack you personally ? , you attacked me personally and yet cry foul when my response was civil , strange world.
Sticks and stones.

Enjoy your childlike little world. I certainly hope you have a change of heart if you ever decide to leave your baby crib of perceived safety and join us adults.

How childish but I've come to expect that here these days.

I see, so you stating ...

bolster their manhood by carrying or owning high powered guns

...is not an insult to owners of firearms? Typical. I would not expect you to see that as a personal attack. So, I had to reduce myself to your level in order to explain it to you.

I repeat, when you are ready to leave your baby crib and join the world of adults, please do so.

a reply to: chr0naut

Texas Is Still Losing the War on Feral Hogs

Estimate is the there are over a million running around in Texas.

edit:

A reason to own a rifle living on a ranch here in Texas.

originally posted by: chr0naut

New Zealand - gun deaths per 100,000 people - 1.07

US - gun deaths per 100,000 people - 12.21

Sort of says it all.

Not really.... This is kind of cherry picking... I can say that there are more cricket bat assaults in NZ than all of America even comparing 330 million to your measly 4.5 million.

I do agree that Americans are more violent by nature or that violence is more acceptable within social norms in parts of the country, but it is also hard to compare the third largest population in the world to a country with a population that we have cities with more people.
Below are two comparisons, one is Chicago where guns are illegal and the other is San Antonio that has about the same population as Auckland of 1.5 million. San Antonio is also in a state with some of the most lacking gun laws such as you can kill to not only defend your property, but your neighbors too. If you go into a house and steal a TV you can be legally shot and killed just walking away with it as example. With Chicago there are three more cities and the total gun murders in just those four cities equal 25 to 30% of all gun murders, so they do skew the numbers a good deal.

Here is Chicago comparison, not a nice place with or without guns.



Here is San Antonio where everyone is packing it seems...lol



I'm not trying to prove anything here just to say that guns is not really the problem.

a reply to: Krakatoa


You said I attacked you personally.

you weasel out of that by attacking me personally.

I did not.

I would not expect you to see that as a personal attack.

Because it isn't , it's a suggestion that just like fat bald men who own fast red sports cars it's done as some kind of proof of virility ... a personal attack would be me saying YOU need to own a gun because you have a small pecker.

Please explain how I am supposed to know who does and does not own a firearm here not to mention the size or caliber of said firearm.

I repeat, when you are ready to leave your baby crib and join the world of adults, please do so

You accuse me of being a child , Tsk.

originally posted by: gortex

Because it isn't , it's a suggestion that just like fat bald men who own fast red sports cars it's done as some kind of proof of virility ... a personal attack would be me saying YOU need to own a gun because you have a small pecker.

I take exception to this statement, my M4 is not red!

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Krakatoa


You said I attacked you personally.

you weasel out of that by attacking me personally.

I did not.

I would not expect you to see that as a personal attack.

Because it isn't , it's a suggestion that just like fat bald men who own fast red sports cars it's done as some kind of proof of virility ... a personal attack would be me saying YOU need to own a gun because you have a small pecker.

Please explain how I am supposed to know who does and does not own a firearm here not to mention the size or caliber of said firearm.

I repeat, when you are ready to leave your baby crib and join the world of adults, please do so

You accuse me of being a child , Tsk.

As I said, I didn't expect you to see it as a personal attack and insult. Because it fits your narrow minded view of the world. When you decide to grow up and be an adult, you will see that statement for what it was...until then, I need to talk in your language and at your level I guess.

Climb out of the crib, join us adults here in the real world, just once.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: gortex

Because it isn't , it's a suggestion that just like fat bald men who own fast red sports cars it's done as some kind of proof of virility ... a personal attack would be me saying YOU need to own a gun because you have a small pecker.

I take exception to this statement, my M4 is not red!

I'm not a Pimp or a thug, or Sadam Hussein. Thus my AR-10 and 15 is black. For the vast majority of us, our firearms are not for showing off or some sort of penis extension

a reply to: Krakatoa

Climb out of the crib, join us adults here in the real world, just once.

Strange , I'm the one replying like an adult to your insult laden replies yet you think I'm the child.

Carry on if you choose I see no point continuing this.

originally posted by: FredT

I'm not a Pimp or a thug, or Sadam Hussein. Thus my AR-10 and 15 is black. For the vast majority of us, our firearms are not for showing off or some sort of penis extension

One of my guns is a desert tan 19x...does that make me a thug

a reply to: chr0naut

Yes because trapping them failed on an even worse level, trapping coupled with hunting has slowed the process but that's kind like saying throwing a rock into a raging river has slowed the flow of the river.

Also look to England, after re-introducing wild pigs to some of their forests they have a mess on their hands, the small numbers of hunters, no natural enemies has lead to an explosion of the population and significant damage to the environment.

a reply to: gortex

Because it isn't...

Excuse me, but inferring a lack of virility is an insult.

Maybe not to you, but to everyone I know of.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: FredT

I'm not a Pimp or a thug, or Sadam Hussein. Thus my AR-10 and 15 is black. For the vast majority of us, our firearms are not for showing off or some sort of penis extension

One of my guns is a desert tan 19x...does that make me a thug

Hmmm I'm gonna have to think on that one LOL

a reply to: FredT

For the vast majority of us, our firearms are not for showing off or some sort of penis extension

Thank you!

There's only two ways people get to even see that I have a gun: A friend wanting to take a look at it, or I'm ready to blow large holes in the observer's body. At all other times, it is holstered or set away out of sight.

Only a fool brandishes a firearm before it's time to use it.

TheRedneck

Ok so just to stop some of the ignorance or even blind denial and refusal to even investigate any *REAL* emperical statistical evidence. Everyone please read:

More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott jr.

The first edition examined crime statistics from every county in the United States over a 29 year period. The statistics came from local law enforcement and well as federal stats from fbi. These facts are hard to believe but being that they are coming from FBI they should be 100% true, but with recently revelations of the FBI no one can be sure of any "facts" coming from FBI.

Anyways for a little persective this book was published by University of Chicago Press. The author has a PhD from UCLA was former staff at Yale as well as University of Pennsylvania. What an Ivy league professor that is pro bill of rights?? Say it aint so!!!

This anecdote will summarize the main point of his book im just leaving out all the hard data to back this up but its all in More Guns, Less Crime so accept this as my bibliography

So imagine u are a criminal that is going to rob someone of their wallet and cell phone or maybe purse. Who are you going to prey on? Well obviously the weakest target, so in a "GUN FREE" city the criminal knows that all these law abidong citizens dont have a gun on them because they obey the law. So anyone is an easy target because the crimnal knows the older lady cant defend herself against me. But if anyone could have a concealed carry license(through all proper training and education and frees and practice.... etc etc) then the criminal wont want to take a risk of getting shot over a wallet. Guns in the public hands is a passive deterrent for crime. Chicago is a "GUN FREE" city... but they have highest murder rate by gun in the country. Babies are getting shot laying in strollers because the shooting is so widespread. If u make guns illegal than only people that commit illegal acts while have them which will result in more widespread violance. Notice noone goes to a gunshow to cause terror noone goes to shooting range to try and inflict terror. Only in gun free zones like schools and churches becsuse no one can fight back. Criminal has less chance of being harmed or killed.

Anyways im sure im going to get all kinds of wild responses.
Despite popular belief criminals are not dumb... usually some are just morons, but the majority of criminals have a higher intellect than people would think. A TDCJ guard asked me one day if i know the differnce between an offender(inmate) and a prison guard is? The only differnece in a prison guard hasnt been caught yet. Majority of people break the law on a rather consistent basis but have just had the fortune of not one day being racially and economically profiled by an over zealous police officer that stepped over the line of his abilities as a cop and infringing on American Citizen. Many of these cases still end as convictions because its in defendant and lawyers best interest usually to plea deal instead of trying to fight a infrignement of rights case or a illrgal swearch case because a trial puts the defendant at mercy of the court and could result in a max sentence for a first time offense that should have at worst been probation.. there are aspects all of these different rights and laws and regulations that blur the success of police departments and the corruption by officers to guarantee convictiond. Just likr Officers Goings here in Houston is now awaiting federal prosecution for lying on search warrants dating back decades and having dozens of cases dismissed years or convition.. sounds like what happened at fisa court lying to judge to gain search warrants and arrest warrants..
Copy of the book for free

digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu...

I typed all of this on my phone so there are probably some misspellings. I apologize its hard to type fast and get all letters correct haha

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed.

So you are saying there are no criminals in New Zealand?

Quite a claim. Do you have streets made of gold, too?

TheRedneck

No, that was not my argument, if you re-check, I was talking specifically about armed criminals and was not suggesting that they don't exist. You see, using an extreme and unreasonable scenario to argue your case, means you are losing the debate.



So, lets use some actual reasoning based on real world data.

The incarceration rate and total incarceration numbers in the US are higher than anywhere in the world

List of countries by incarceration rate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Sort by either the "rate by 100,000 population" and the "prison population" columns to verify.)

Reasoning this out, this probably indicates that the crime rate there is also the absolute worst in the world, alternately, if it doesn't indicate that, then the system there must be imprisoning a lot of non-criminal people. So, either you have the most tyrannical government on the planet, or you have the absolute worst crime rate (or perhaps a combination of the two?). Neither look particularly good for the citizens of the US.

So, I don't think your counter argument stands up to any sort of analysis.

My suggestion that a safe societies are "nearly everywhere where citizens don't have to live in fear of criminals and the mentally unstable who are all armed", still stands as a valid argument in the gun debate.