Why Disney Star Wars Fails

Being a lover of fantasy since a kid (and I've always categorized science fiction as a sub-genre of fantasy), thought I'd write some of my thoughts on the controversy of the new Star Wars and why it is so divisive. And I personally dislike it, along with many others. In fact there is a whole movement on YouTube called the Fandom Menace.

I remember picking up The Lord of the Rings when I first started high school. Read a lot of the EU (Expanded Universe) for Star Wars during that time as well, still think Timothy Zahn's novels are the best continuation of the story.

So what distinguishes, the original Star Wars trilogy, from the new one. And why does The Lord of the Rings stand out above them all?

Back in 1977 Star Wars was the start of a new era of cinema. George Lucas had a vision of a galaxy far away and played it out with a lot of pompous and fanfare to an eager audience. You can see his worldview and even religious ideas woven into its themes. Much as you could see J. R. R. Tolkien's worldview. A veteran of WWI and a Catholic, interwoven in his story is the battle of the forces of good and evil. How even the best of men can be corrupted, and the saving power of mercy (Catholics like to call this grace).

Tolkien was a professor of English language and Literature. He was a scholar of the Icelandic sagas and a dreamer, of course. He was a master of language, built up a story around the language he invented, of elvish, in the Lord of the Rings. But throughout the story, which was later broken down into three books, he weaves a narrative of incredible scope and depth.

There is a moment in the story that really tells us its heart, when Frodo talks about it being a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum. A prophecy the aged Gandalf tells him.

Frodo: " It’s a pity Bilbo didn’t kill him when he had the chance."

Gandlaf: "Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo’s hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."




The one ring represents the innate evil in man. And most could not withstand their desire for it, for the power it wield.

Gandalf refused to even touch the ring. And Gandalf wasn't even human. In Tolkein's lore Gandalf was a Istari (wizard). They were not human but spirits, sent by Valar to assist people in middle-earth.

The wizards of Middle-earth are Maiar: spirits of the same order as the Valar, but lesser in power.[1] Outwardly resembling Men but possessing much greater physical and mental power, they are also called the Istari (Quenya for "Wise Ones") by the Elves.[1] They were sent by the Valar to assist the people of Middle-earth to contest Sauron.[1]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_peoples#Istari_(Wizards)en.wikipedia.org...(Wizards)]Istari[/ur l]

The elves had to fight against the evil the ring wanted to reveal in them.



Saruman, one of the spirit Istari sent by Valar to help middle-earth was corrupted by its evil...




And yet the simple hobbits, a humble and unassuming people seemed to be the most resistant to its power...





But even in the end not even Frodo resisted evil...in the end he too was overcome by its power:



Here we see Gandalf's prophecy fulfilled. It wasn't the hero of the story, any hero that saved the world of Middle-earth. It was mercy showed on a corrupted hobbit that came to be the vile creature known as Gollum. Frodo as he failed to fulfill his mission, was overtaken by gollum and he fell into the fires of Mt. Doom with the ring.

Of course this is just a small taste of the intricate world of Middle-Earth and the lore created in it. All of it touches on epic themes of good vs evil. The struggle in us good vs evil. Many Biblical themes come out in his works. Touching on the imperfect nature of man, the inability to conquer evil on our own, and overall the mercy of God and his angels over man in the struggle against evil.

We move on to the original Star Wars trilogy. Much lore of good vs evil is woven in its works. The Jedi vs the Sith. Although not as in depth in its telling, it still shows us a morale tale, and the struggle of the forces of good against evil.

Luke Skywalker, the naive, inexperienced protagonist who wants to save the galaxy. The prophecy of the chosen one who brings the force into alignment. His unwavering belief in the goodness in people. He even saw the good in his father...And that is another thing. Darth Vadar is probably the most iconic villain of all-time.

In The Empire Strikes Back, not even the actors could believe the revelation that Darth Vadar, did not really kill Ankin Skywalker, Luke's father, but that he was his father.







In Return of the Jedi we see a wiser and yet still optomistic Luke Skywalker. His tale ends in the story as he along with his friends defeat the Empire and the evil of the Sith Lord Palpatine. And in the end it was Darth Vadar who repents, and as a last act of repentance he turns on his evil master and destroys him. The hope in his child gives him the power to overcome the evil that consumed and controlled him.



And Darth Vadar, is Anakin...a man who turned evil because of dark circumstance, but who, in the end was able to overcome all the bad he did...and it was the hope that his son had in him that there was still good in him.

Something that we all need. We all need someone to love us. Someone to approve of us. Someone to give us hope, even when we do not hope in ourselves. Someone that is able to give us the spark of light, when all that we see is darkness.

[yvid][/yvid]


In these works we see the grand drama of the forces of good and evil. We feel the journey, we understand the feelings of the protagonists and antagonists. And in the end we find hope.







The new Star Wars, the Disney Star Wars has none of this. It does not have the intraciate story the master of story-telling J. R. R. Tolkein created in his world of Middle-Earth. It doesn't borrow from the grand themes that pervade George Lucas' Star Wars.

This is Disney Star Wars:






Disney Star Wars has none of the hope, none of the spark, none of the humanity. It''s tale is told by people of moral ambiguity. So that is what it gives. It is not a moral tale. It isn't even a good tale. This sums up the the Disney Trilogy quite nicely:




It is a trilogy that was not thought out from start to finish. It's 3 different movies, with no direction. The Empire Strikes Back, left us wanting to see how good was going to conquer the impossible odds in the third episode. Many no longer care what happens in The Rise of Skywalker.

a reply to: Eyestosee

One big difference is that Lord of the rings had strong women in the movie's and they didn't have to knock down men to achieve it.
Neither did the original Star Wars.

Rey on the other hand has whooped a trained Jedi in the previous two movies. How are we supposed to take Darth emo as a serious threat?
Poe gets smacked down by the diversity hire and fin is just a pathetic pussy.

Throw in the terrible story in the New trilogy and you get a big steaming turd of a movie.

a reply to: Eyestosee

I agree whole heartedly the franchise has been ruined, not quite destroyed but ruined by Disney, that said a friend whom watched star wars at the same time as I did in the cinema in the 1970's sparking a long love of the franchise we both share said that the new series or at least the first four episodes of the Mandalorian were great but from what I can gather they have messed around with the lore quite a bit, he was not too keen on the fifth, despite that I still want to see them myself eventually.
And he said something about an Australian sounding IT-88 which is a bit odd.
According to him the first 4 episodes were better made than the movies as far as he is concerned despite them also being Disney.

Either way they are new movies for a new generation not for ours, sadly though they don't seem to have anywhere near as much of an impact on the kid's as the original did for us so Disney are squandering the legacy of the franchise, that director sound's like an ass as well.

Though you know George Lucas himself alienated a lot of us with what he did with the prequel trilogy even though compared to Disney's offering's those second trilogy (prequel) were masterpieces despite Jar Jar bink's, midichlorians (definitely not how Alec Guinness described the force - you know he hated star wars and yet without his role as old obi wan the first movie would never have been as good - or indeed how Harrison Ford as Han Solo described it as a religion) and younglings (that all so they could sell costume merchandise and toy lightsabres, Lucas went too far he did not need it though let's be fair he began the precedent with the Ewok's after the merchandising took over and became far too important spoiling the third movie, I still remember inwardly cringing at the teddy bear aliens as a young teenager).

So Disney are being Disney no surprise there, if they cared about star wars they could not have destroyed the lore so prevalent for so long and so loved by the fan's, the director's word's paint the picture of how much he cared about the fan's which is not a lot at all he just wanted to make the movie his way and star wars cannon lore be damned.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Eyestosee

Either way they are new movies for a new generation not for ours, sadly though they don't seem to have anywhere near as much of an impact on the kid's as the original did for us so Disney are squandering the legacy of the franchise, that director sound's like an ass as well.

That's it. They are throw away serials to be forgotten about. But a good story is as good yesterday as it is today, and will be tomorrow.

Is the new generation unable to distinguish good from bad story-telling? That it panders so low to a new generation is very telling about what the producers of Disney Star Wars thinks of them.

I appreciate the time you've taken to write this thread and the following isn't meant to demean your opinions, but I think there's one simple reason it's failed and that's because the saga was taken over as a propaganda mouth piece... meant to virtue signal rather than present an epic struggle between good and evil.

a reply to: Eyestosee

I saw star wars as a youth in the 70s and it sparked a love affair with scifi.

The franchise fell off after Empire imho. ROJ wasnt bad but you could clearly see how the movie was done around merchandising.

I cant get into anything after the first three. I have several grand of Lego UCS Star Wars kits on display in my office. I'm a real fan.

Personally I want an R rated Christopher Nolan version made. Star Wars needs the Batman treatment. It has gotten. too campy and woke for my taste.

Starwars died the day lucas sold it

Most the fans I know never gave Disney a chance and with good reason

All just a cash grab imo look at fallen order ... they used dark souls play style to appeal to the players but it makes it look like the lightsaber is a 10 ton hammer ... the games the movies all of it watered down garbage mass produced to sell

It's just sad to see people lap it up

a reply to: Eyestosee

I have a great respect for the work you put into this thread. I despise the new Disney Star Wars. It is not just the virtue signaling, but a lack of strong characters and story. It combines for a dismal tale where I have no interest in the outcome.

Meh. I enjoy them all. The first three are my favorite because of the nostalgia of growing up with them. The rest are fine. They entertain me and my kids. It's popcorn sci-fi, not Citizen Kane or The Godfather.

To us teens in the late 70s, Star Wars was not about a "Great story", it was all about seeing an "Event" on the big screen with all its colour and fantasy, and pew, pew, pew noises on the big big screen.

We cared little about the story, in fact, as each new movie came out, it got all the more confusing......

Dont forget, by the mid/late 70s we already knew about Space, SiFi, aliens, etc etc, we had all been brought up on Star Trek and its reruns, Dr. Who, every good and bad Hollywood Flying Saucer Movie from War of the Worlds, The Day the Earth Stood Still, to 2001 a Space Odyssey and all the rest.

Star Wars was just a hyped up Si Fi adventure movie/s.....nothing was "read" into it in those days.

Lucas even said in those days, his influence for SW were the cheap short late 40s/50s movie serials, that use to run in cinemas back then, old black and white cops and robbers type ones. Good v Evil......

Isn’t that the nature of the force, yin and yang, good is equal to evil, there is no honour, no right effectively.
It’s the spiritualism that is wrong in Star Wars in my opinion

Tolkien’s. christianity meant that self sacrifice was a virtue and lead to a better future, serving others was key to growth
Yin and yang ☯️ Ends in a stalemate where ideology is subjective, two Powers’s constantly at war with no justice overcoming in the end

I feel the same way as gort51. The Star Wars: Mandalorian I’ve enjoyed tremendously so far. All 5 episodes.

originally posted by: gort51
To us teens in the late 70s, Star Wars was not about a "Great story", it was all about seeing an "Event" on the big screen with all its colour and fantasy, and pew, pew, pew noises on the big big screen.

We cared little about the story, in fact, as each new movie came out, it got all the more confusing.....

.

Dont forget, by the mid/late 70s we already knew about Space, SiFi, aliens, etc etc, we had all been brought up on Star Trek and its reruns, Dr. Who, every good and bad Hollywood Flying Saucer Movie from War of the Worlds, The Day the Earth Stood Still, to 2001 a Space Odyssey and all the rest.

Star Wars was just a hyped up Si Fi adventure movie/s.....nothing was "read" into it in those days.

Lucas even said in those days, his influence for SW were the cheap short late 40s/50s movie serials, that use to run in cinemas back then, old black and white cops and robbers type ones. Good v Evil......

Star Wars was a B movie, but it had something special. It wasn't trying too hard and it was ground breaking in terms of the effects at the time. Darth Vader was the most asinine and over the top antagonist / villain.

The other thing that most people don't know is that Star Wars actually was the first movie to really make a ton of money off merchandising. Lucas actually worked out a deal to keep the bulk of the merchandising profits because at the time, studios didn't really make a lot of money off of merchandise so they thought they were getting pulling a fast one over on him.

a reply to: Edumakated

Well, in the 60s I had a Batmobile, Monkee Mobile, JB's DB5, FAB 1, and all the Thunderbirds vehicles from 1-5, and use to buy bubble gum cards of Batman, the Monkees etc etc...

Merchandising was around long before Star Wars...

They didnt just milk Star Wars, they bleed it to death.....almost.

I think Gerry and Sylvia Anderson did very well out of their puppets.

originally posted by: gort51
a reply to: Edumakated

Well, in the 60s I had a Batmobile, Monkee Mobile, JB's DB5, FAB 1, and all the Thunderbirds vehicles from 1-5, and use to buy bubble gum cards of Batman, the Monkees etc etc...

Merchandising was around long before Star Wars...

They didnt just milk Star Wars, they bleed it to death.....almost.

I think Gerry and Sylvia Anderson did very well out of their puppets.

Yes, but not to the degree Star Wars ushered in mass marketing....

40 Years Ago Star Wars Changed Movies

One of the biggest changes “Star Wars” ushered in was mass market merchandising, something Hollywood relies upon now for their bottom line but wasn’t as big a deal in 1977. In fact, as Lucas negotiated a deal with Fox for the sequels in the wake of the original movie’s success, he was able to nab the money from merchandise sales, which made him a fortune over the ensuing decades.