Trump calls for 'war'

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: vonclod

These so called "resources" arent helping the addicts. Its almost like on propose that they don't want help them. While some that i had witnessed are just walking on the streets confused and shaking their bodies due to the stuff.

There are no resources. I mean... None for the average joe. The "resources" are only for people who can afford insurance and only insurance that includes those resources. Sure, rich people get addicted but majority are not rich and the drugs are often a symptom of being poor and outcast.

originally posted by: cognizant420
a reply to: underwerks

Just saying, chefox seems to be thinking everyone is like the potheads he knows. That's just a small fraction. There are.tons of very successful people that smoke pot. He has no clue

I know, I was just joking with you.



I’ve worked for years in the cannabis industry and I’m starting a hemp farm soon.

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

LOL.

Spoken like someone who truly has no clue what a "volley of strategic missiles," is.

Or, what that would mean for my sons.

....Do YOU know what you're talking about?

I do.

You don't.

Or, at least, you haven't thought your ideas through.

Anyway. Thank you. Drive through.

Reasons and explanations are required otherwise your response hold zero weight. So tell me why....? I want specifics.

"Thank you. Drive through"? What are you, 10? I get the impression I'm not speaking to an adult here, nor military.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Gary Webb got suicided for exposing the US government was in on the drug trade to create untraceable funds for US destabilization efforts in Central and South America.

Again, the ideas you proposed are not new in "combating" cartel/drug trade south of our border.

El Salvador
Nicaragua
Columbia
Chile
Argentina

Just to name a few.

It hasn't worked. US national security and public safety are two different things.

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I think you misread my post.

Maybe. Sorry if I did.

I was mostly responding to your statement that we cannot legalize certain types of drugs. We can. We should. All of them.

It would make this country a hell hole and a third world country in my opinion. But over the years, I've found that my opinion on drug legalization is not the popular opinion on either side.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: LSU2018
They're also pushing much harder drugs like heroine and coc aine across our borders and making much more money from it, or so I would think. Can't legalize those,

Sure you can...

I would go so far as to argue that any law making things like this illegal is unConstitutional on its face, but would require a Constitutional Amendment.

Proof?

What was required for the one single precedent we actually have on the subject - Prohibition?

That's just proof that's it's even harder to take away something that was already ok. I know weed is in that same category, but it's been illegal since the early 1900's and none of those who were alive when it WAS legal are still alive anymore.

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

It could be interesting if the US goes in and confiscates property and money it could be a nice windfall for the budgets to pay for some things.

There may be some issues with international law on that, but if an enterprising PMC backed by the US were to go in and destroy the cartels that would be another issue.

originally posted by: Charliebrowndog
a reply to: underwerks

It is easy, the CIA will take over. Unless more of the swamp can be drained.

As stated previously as long as drugs are in demand there will always be someone to supply it. IF the US got involved and bombed the cartels into the stone age it may affect supply for a little but someone else would come in and the cartel would most likely rebuild at some point. Would drugs be harder to get? Most likely, but it would not solve the drug problem but it would most likely solve the cartel problem for awhile.

It could be interesting if the US goes in and confiscates property and money it could be a nice windfall for the budgets to pay for some things.

As long as there is a need, someone will supply it. If I can make an ink pen for $1 and sell it for $15,000, there’s no government in the world that can stop that. The money is just too big. That’s the kind of profit margins we’re talking about here.

At no point would it ever be unprofitable enough for there not to be a new cartel that would step in once one is taken down. The amount of profits in the drug trade is enough to guarantee that.

A war with cartels would be a never ending futile war that would only make things worse on both sides of the border. More deaths and destruction in Mexico and more crime and deaths in America because of rising drug prices. And would create an entirely new class of super criminals stateside because of the insane profits that could then be made.

Prohibition of anything has never worked in the history of humankind. It’s only made things worse. Every time. Doubling down on that approach isn’t going to solve anything.

originally posted by: silo13
I got hit with this full force this morning on FB.

I clicked on a video and next thing I know I'm looking and a bullet ridden burned out car with something/someones' inside. I had to close my eyes.

So - they shot them and burned them and on the radio someone said the girls were raped?

If that doesn't equal = GO IN AND CLEAN THEM OUT - I don't know what does.

Problem is? Who will fill the void once the 'cartel' that's in place, is not?

Isn't it ultimately a dog chasing it's tail of a sort?

And before you go there, no, legalizing drugs is just insane.

You're very right. It may look like words on a page to some but I looked at that burned out car and saw the ashes... I imagined, though I didn't see the charred skeletons, that the children were sitting in what was once a back seat. The burned PARENTS and CHILDREN alive. They RAPED the women. They KIDNAPPED other CHILDREN for who knows what purpose. I can guess and it's not a happy one.

It takes a seriously horrible person to do such things. When I hear the word demons, this is the kind of thing I picture. I can sit here and only imagine how everything took place, what they did and it sickens me to my stomach. Imagine the horror, the fear, the brutality, the pain, the begging, the screams to God, the pleading all in vain as you watch your children and loved ones die in front of you or the children watching their parents being raped and murdered in front of them. The horror in those INNOCENT children's eyes... mind... souls...

I can see why you would close your eyes and I don't blame you - it takes a real person with feelings to see how horrible this was. I wouldn't trust a person if they did not feel this way. Those kinds of people aren't human.

But no.... I don't want to get involved because MY SONS might get hurt. Sadly, some people in this country sicken me just as much with this kind of mindset.

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

LOL.

Spoken like someone who truly has no clue what a "volley of strategic missiles," is.

Or, what that would mean for my sons.

....Do YOU know what you're talking about?

I do.

You don't.

Or, at least, you haven't thought your ideas through.

Anyway. Thank you. Drive through.

Reasons and explanations are required otherwise your response hold zero weight. So tell me why....? I want specifics.

"Thank you. Drive through"? What are you, 10? I get the impression I'm not speaking to an adult here, nor military.

Ha!

Ok.

The "sons" comment referred to GWOT and how my oldest is now deploying to the same sh!tholes I did almost 20 years ago.

My second son is in his 3rd year of ROTC and will - no doubt - be doing the same (or deploying to Mexico to facilitate your big man jerk-off dream of destroying all cartels) in the near future.

Not your fault. I know. I failed in my attempts to dissuade them or, at least, have them join the Air Force.

I'm sorry critical and deliberative thinking and reading comprehension are not your strong suit.

I'm not 10. At least not chronologically. Mentally? Maybe. And, you'd have an ally in my wife with that belief.

Military? Yes. I am. Why would you think otherwise? Specifics!! I need specifics!! LOL. (oops! my 10 year-old self is showing!).

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

Watch a pretty good drama called "Snowfall." It's mostly accurate.

Or "Kill The Messenger", the movie about investigative journalist Gary Webb.

originally posted by: LSU2018
That's just proof that's it's even harder to take away something that was already ok. I know weed is in that same category, but it's been illegal since the early 1900's and none of those who were alive when it WAS legal are still alive anymore.

It is proof that the Constitution does not delegate the power to try to protect people from themselves.

If anything, the power of drug regulation belongs at the State level. But I would also argue that a naturally occurring plant should not be able to be outlawed, even by a State.

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: vonclod

These so called "resources" arent helping the addicts. Its almost like on propose that they don't want help them. While some that i had witnessed are just walking on the streets confused and shaking their bodies due to the stuff.

I GUARANTEE you have never seen anyone with those symptoms due to marijuana.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The problem with the Middle Least is that we didn't go in with the intention to win. We'll never win that way. You go in, you eliminate all threats, you get out. I don't care if that means leaving a crater where the Middle Least is located, if that's what it takes to win, you do it.

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: silo13
I got hit with this full force this morning on FB.

I clicked on a video and next thing I know I'm looking and a bullet ridden burned out car with something/someones' inside. I had to close my eyes.

So - they shot them and burned them and on the radio someone said the girls were raped?

If that doesn't equal = GO IN AND CLEAN THEM OUT - I don't know what does.

Problem is? Who will fill the void once the 'cartel' that's in place, is not?

Isn't it ultimately a dog chasing it's tail of a sort?

And before you go there, no, legalizing drugs is just insane.

You're very right. It may look like words on a page to some but I looked at that burned out car and saw the ashes... I imagined, though I didn't see the charred skeletons, that the children were sitting in what was once a back seat. The burned PARENTS and CHILDREN alive. They RAPED the women. They KIDNAPPED other CHILDREN for who knows what purpose. I can guess and it's not a happy one.

It takes a seriously horrible person to do such things. When I hear the word demons, this is the kind of thing I picture. I can sit here and only imagine how everything took place, what they did and it sickens me to my stomach. Imagine the horror, the fear, the brutality, the pain, the begging, the screams to God, the pleading all in vain as you watch your children and loved ones die in front of you or the children watching their parents being raped and murdered in front of them. The horror in those INNOCENT children's eyes... mind... souls...

I can see why you would close your eyes and I don't blame you - it takes a real person with feelings to see how horrible this was. I wouldn't trust a person if they did not feel this way. Those kinds of people aren't human.

But no.... I don't want to get involved because MY SONS might get hurt. Sadly, some people in this country sicken me just as much with this kind of mindset.

I think you have mis-characterized my reservation in bombing Mexico with a "volley of strategic missiles."

I will always prefer a solution which does not involve my sons being shot at instead of one that does.

Legalization and control is way better than your fantasy.

Thank you. Drive through.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: vonclod

These so called "resources" arent helping the addicts. Its almost like on propose that they don't want help them. While some that i had witnessed are just walking on the streets confused and shaking their bodies due to the stuff.

I GUARANTEE you have never seen anyone with those symptoms due to marijuana.

I mean, he was slightly wrong in his description.

While some that i had witnessed are just walking on the streets confused and shaking their bodies due to the stuff.

I've never seen someone on weed exhibit those symptoms on the street.

But I have seen them shake in confusion upon walking into a 7/11. Slurpy, candy aisle, or the grill... They usually do all 3, but it takes them 10 minutes of shaking confusion to reach their conclusion. Kind of funny.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I think you misread my post.

Maybe. Sorry if I did.

I was mostly responding to your statement that we cannot legalize certain types of drugs. We can. We should. All of them.

It would make this country a hell hole and a third world country in my opinion. But over the years, I've found that my opinion on drug legalization is not the popular opinion on either side.

Not an issue!

Thoughtful people can disagree.

The problem with my position is we've not tried it yet so can only look at countries like Portugal or Switzerland (harm reduction). It could be worse, as you believe.

The one thing I do know, though, is that what we've been trying isn't working.

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Vasa Croe

It's very telling that the Mexican President doesn't want to bother going against these cartels. They rather give them hugs... apparently. Trump is practically begging this guy. All he has to do is say the word. We'll go in, no questions asked. They wont even have to take care of it themselves.

It was met with a firm NO

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador refused that approach, saying at a Tuesday news conference, "The worst thing you can have is war."

"We declared war, and it didn't work," Lopez Obrador said, referring to the policies of previous administrations. "That is not an option."

WTF! This guy has to be on the take or he's scared $#!%less for his own life. That's really fricken sad. Children were burned alive and they don't care.

'Hugs not Bullets'.... Is that seriously their answer?

If they don't agree on our help or do something themselves, we should step in and take care of it ourselves. When we're done, we can force a government change while at the same time, find out who's responsible for assisting with this madness on our side and hang every single one for treason against the USofA.

I as well feel that there would be a lot of CIA - FBI - and Political leaders hanging high.

When I was in Afghanistan the first time, we were burning the poppy fields.

Then, we realized those poppy farmers were our only real/significant source of intel and "good-will."

They were also some of the few people making money, offering jobs that paid and creating somewhat "safe" places for civilians.

We "adjusted" our policy and started stacking tali bodies all of a sudden. Imagine that!

Now some shenanigans went on as well but I'm just trying to point out that a shooting war is probably the last thing anyone who's been in one would want. Trump? Not so much.

The solution to this issue does NOT involve prohibition. That just enriches the cartels. Legalize and control the means of production, distribution and sale. Tax it all. Viola! Cartels out of business.

I agree completely that we need to legalize and control all drugs in order to help defund the cartels. But that would not make them go away. There is still human trafficking, gun smuggling, and all types of other illicit crimes they would just ramp up. Drugs are just their most profitable commodities.

Offering assistance for war? Need an army to fight an army?

Mexico has an army. A pretty substantial army. It's just that civil war is always a last resort, not something to look forward to. It should be avoided at all cost. [shaking my head]

How about we end our war on drugs first, all drugs, and cut off the money supply to the cartels instead of going in to do what we do best - bomb the # out of a country?

It's like watching a child brainstorm an idea, only I hesitate to chuckle here.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The problem with the Middle Least is that we didn't go in with the intention to win. We'll never win that way. You go in, you eliminate all threats, you get out. I don't care if that means leaving a crater where the Middle Least is located, if that's what it takes to win, you do it.

The problem is our military has been used for destabilization efforts, not winning. The Middle East is not unique in this regard... I posted several examples in Latin America where we did similar things.

Also, our military patrols the poppy fields in Afghanistan who produces a majority of the world's supply... Right in the midst of the worst opium epidemic we've experienced domestically since the Vietnam war era... Guess who was the number one producer then?

Where has our war on drugs worked? Where has the US efforts to "fix" Latin American countries worked? It doesn't, it's merely destabilization to fit corporate agendas, and in Latin America, it creates refugees who come to the states... In the Middle East, they just go to Europe.