Is the U.S.A. #1? Not so fast...

Ok, I'm American... in fact, I'm a proud American... until I read this:

207.44.245.159...

Man, this thread could've been posted in so many different forums, but I will start it here and see where it goes from this point. Is this due to some sort of conspiracy? What happened? I really thought that we were on top of it all!?!?

Could it be that we are witness to the end of another great empire?

I found this one hard to believe -

'Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).'

However, great find! Just backs up what I want for America ....
STOP giving away our $$$ to foreign countries and start spending
it on US! Our infrastructure, education, health care, all need more
$$$. Take it from the funds that are designated for oveseas
countries. Spend it here. We need it as much, if not more, then
then do - as your article attests to.

Considering the source, amusing.
As to the US being #1, far from it.
Your point is to what?
Enlighten us further that it is not?

Nothing but a post/topic to incite rhetorical response.

I really thought that we were on top of it all!?!?

Either your bathing in sarcasm or really need to get out the house.

Could it be that we are witness to the end of another great empire?

Coming from you, kozmo, read my initial comments.
Again, nothing but a post/topic to incite rhetorical response.
If it wasn't, you wouldn't have bailed offline as quick as you did after posting it. Peeping from behind the curtains, eh?





seekerof

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by kozmo

Ok, I'm American... in fact, I'm a proud American... until I read this:

What? Now you're not proud? Over random one-liner stats that really come from who knows where? Guess that pride wasn't too deep, huh

I hate these kinds of lists. Usually they're not independent, and are just being offered as "proof" for some group's agenda.

But hey, that's just me

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Partyof1]

Originally posted by Partyof1

Originally posted by kozmo

Ok, I'm American... in fact, I'm a proud American... until I read this:

What? Now you're not proud? Over random one-liner stats that really come from who knows where? Guess that pride wasn't too deep, huh

I hate these kinds of lists. Usually they're not independent, and are just being offered as "proof" for some group's agenda.

But hey, that's just me

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Partyof1]

My thoughts exactly. How many of those numbers aren’t taking into account percentage of population? Not many I am sure. The USA has nearly 300 million people living in it, of course you can compare that to any small country and Sku the numbers however you want.

I am an analyst for a fortune 300 retailer. And I can tell you right now, I can make any set of data you can give me say anything I need it to. No matter what, and not lie or misrepresent it once. Data can be shown to tell any story you want.

Oh, and Nestle and Unilever may be owned by out of the country financial groups, but they are very much run and operated within the US and employ thousands of American citizens.


[edit on 7-3-2005 by skippytjc]

Why is the source so amusing to you?

I was aware of several of these items, but not the entire lot of them. I was truly shocked to learn how far behind we are in R&D, Schooling & healthcare. The real shockers:
The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).
The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).
"The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).
Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.
The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).
Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

I truly resent your notion that the purpose of this thread is to "incite rhetorical response". In fact, it is rather the opposite... to open up intelligent debate about a.) the causes and b.) the solutions. What is rhetorical about that?

Oh this is going to be fun have a laugh...:

* The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).

Yeah - butts I'ze got da shizzle dope ass spinners on my Escalade....

* The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

So - Wal-mart adds everything up for me anyway....

* Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

Comparison stat - a bunch of crazy EU people actually care about this and think we suck?? My world revolves around my 40 ouncer and a blunt...

* "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).

So - we make more money even if we are dumber.... Criminals miss the stats you know....

* Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

Velcro makes shoe tying obsolete - so what....

* "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

State supported - we still spend a boatload and it gets tied into lots of corporate reports, lots of math there and since we suck at it, it's a bit tough to add properly....


* "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70).

Not - been on Medline or Lexus/Nexus lately....

* Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).

So - it's still huge and we have large corporations that foot a lot of this these days....

* Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

Good - stay the fack home - we don't want you here....

* The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

No universal health care here - we gave the world Viagra - nuff said on health care costs. You been down the aisle at Walgreens to see all the crap we make and buy....

* "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

So - we take a more personal view of our health care - we can also buy guns....

* Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

Got to keep natural selection going somehow - gene pool is getting severely watered down....


* "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

Yeah - butt I'ze got da shizzle dope ass spinners on my Escalade.... Damn, girl I forgot to buy dat baby formula.... You got the blunt girl??

* Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004).

Get out of Arkansas now....

* The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

Natural selection again - is this a percentage or absolute numbers - big difference there people....

* Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

It's a big ass country and we have lots of folks that are not close to health care providers. We also have bad traffic in big cities....

* The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

Is that cool or what - two natural selection hits at once. The bad genetics are stopped in their tracks....

* "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

What - did they miss the tech boom that made millions of people millionaires overnight..??


* "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

Look at the source - I need to check but aren't Exxon, GM and Microsoft at the top of the list..??

* "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

Source again - yeah the banks in Europe are a boatload older than ours - transparency issue too over there.... Since Nestle and Unilever get lot's of money from us, did they take that piece out when they made the comparison..??


* The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005).

They can have them - making crappy toys and stuff for WallyWorld that pays $1 per hour.... They don't have any dope ass Escalades either....

* U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

Recession people....

* Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

Um - as a percentage, the EU member countries are worse in terms of true unemployment. Gov propped programs are not the answer....

* Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.

Doh - secure investment. At least we pay off our debt (buy back our paper) and who would want to hold the paper from any of those countries..??

* Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. (Hear that, you poor deluded cowboys?) As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

Let em have it - we like cheap produce and it's cheaper to grow there and ship here. Simple economics since shipping rates are so low these days....

* As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

We be fat and like to eat - word....

* Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.

We already know about the alien NWO thing so why bother....

* One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).

Is that cool or what - no strings....

* "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).

Viva Las Vegas - and every 2nd person on the street in Vegas is a foreigner spending their money here - hee hee....

* "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

"Mama said knock you out" - LL Cool J....

* Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

Hell yeah - why is that number so low..??

* "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).

Define abused and/or neglected and lets take that as a percentage and compare to other countries.


* "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

Neighborhood watch - i.e. people with bats and guns....


* No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore. Not even close.

Highest paid actors
Highest paid musicians
Highest paid executives
Most dope rides
Most airplanes
Most yachts and pleasure crafts
Most ski resorts
Most McDonald's - ding ding ding - we have a winner....


* The USA is "No. 1" in nothing but weaponry, consumer spending, debt, and delusion.

See last short list - largest GDP, still a very high GDP to debt ratio and far better than all of the EU member countries. Largest investment markets and the fattest, dopest people on da planet - we win!!!!!

Kozmo--Thanks for the post. It doesn't matter how bad we are--we will always have those that will spit at you for trying to bring them out of the dark. It doesn't matter where we rank to them because they don't care. To them if you have the biggest guns you're the best, never looking around to see themselves or their families going backwards, and never knowing they were ignorant of these things before beofre your post.

Is the measure of our greatness based on somekind of a score? Should we not be downgraded for having far too many poor? That number keeps on growng like it never grew before, as we keep closing all the factories and we ship that work off shore, even all the steel mills, the foundation of our corps. Could we still expect to buy steel if the world broke out in war.
History will repeat itself as our greatness slips away, cause greed controls our thinking, it's what makes big business say, " the strength of us tomorrow means cutting back, today" so they cut wages and our benefits and ship the work out to Taipi, and our government condones it and say it's just our way.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by kazi]

Originally posted by kazi


...never looking around to see themselves or their families going backwards...

Well, my life certainly isn't "going backwards". In fact, virtually everyone I know is doing better than they were a decade ago. Sure, the USA isn't perfect by any means, but I'd say on the whole we're doing quite well. There is still no other country in the world where it's so possible to be successful if you're willing to work hard at it. That's probably why millions of people from around world apply for US citizenship or work visas each year.

Hey, maybe that's why your the party of1. I'm glad your not going backward but believe me someone youknow well, is going backwards, family friends and aquaintencies. Because as a nation were going backward. Believe what you must but as this thread started with the comparisons were falling behind as a nation. I'd be willing to bet money that many of those I pointed out to you are not staying ahead of inflation, cost of health insurance, housing, food, cost of education. But you are, aren't you? You and everybody you know is going forward, or are you one of those that thinks, me, me me. I think you are.

As for all the immigrants heading here, I pity them because like us they are blind to what is waiting for them. A country growing cold, even for it's own.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by kazi]

[edit on 7-3-2005 by kazi]

Wait a minute... compared to EUROPE!? So you're saying the U.S. is "not #1" when compared to a bunch of other countries COMBINED??? Wow.... somehow I feel so inadequate now...

Originally posted by kazi


You and everybody you know is going forward, or are you one of those that thinks, me, me me. I think you are.

Kazi - why the slam?

I was just stating my opinion like the rest of the posters. That last comment really wasn't called for.

My post was truthful and I stand by it.

No big suprise... in fact i dont see what the big shock is... if you'd asked anyone in the world that wasnt in the USA which country was #1... they wouldnt say the US... sure they'd all have different opinions, but its commonly known, the only people who think the US is as great as tey like to say, is the US people...

While they may not the one of the worst countries... they sure as hell arent the best... in fact, that you yourself (original poster) werent aware how how un-great your beloved land really is, is a perfect example of the ignorance held by your population... very few people in the USA know anything about anywhere else in the world.

If one of us is chained...

Makes sure your sound on, and not too loud.



[edit on 7-3-2005 by ADVISOR]

Come on now. Even us Americans that are answering this thread. We are sitting behind our computers, stating how bad things are here. Well, I say either you are too fat and happy to change it, or just as I said, you are fat and happy.

I am better off then I was 10 years ago, but that's because I am working hard to improve my life. We have that opportunity. We have computers, electricity, schools, etc. We can change things if we get enough people together to change them. So what if some reports that come out of Europe say that Europeans are better than us at some things. Good, let them feel proud, but I'm not losing my pride because of it.

America still has all the opportunities it once had, go out and work towards your goals. As a matter of fact, I think a slight decline may be good for our people. Sometimes people get a little spoiled with good things and they need a waking up call. But I find it hard to believe that we are going to be some third world country in a few years. That's like calling Italy a third world country. We are only exiting the industrial revolution. So, I say onto all in America, welcome to a post-industrialized nation. It's time to change with it.

originally posted by Partyof1 Kazi why the slam

Well it wasn't much of a slam. But to put what you said into perspective, would be like Lance Armstrong walking into an amputee ward and asking, 'anybody want to race. It's all around you, in fact it's what this thread is all about. Things are going backward, and you chose to see it going forward. Not just anyone can work hard and get ahead anymore, in fact, this administration, more than any in the past is trying to set a future where only very few can enjoy what we take for granted. Slave labor is growing in this country no matter what your education. Do you doubt the validity of the article that started this thread? It didn't have that credance twenty years ago. Yes your doing fine and so am I, the difference is, I'm apalled that at what's happening to the middle class and you, you aren't.

It is not just about America, need to lose that mind set, we are not the world, just the mixing bowl. America is nothing with out that bowl, it is who and what she is.

Please tell me you people at least listened to it all, I dont much care for the images my self, but the words are what I felt.

Originally posted by kazi

originally posted by Partyof1 Kazi why the slam

Well it wasn't much of a slam. But to put what you said into perspective, would be like Lance Armstrong walking into an amputee ward and asking, 'anybody want to race. It's all around you, in fact it's what this thread is all about. Things are going backward, and you chose to see it going forward. Not just anyone can work hard and get ahead anymore, in fact, this administration, more than any in the past is trying to set a future where only very few can enjoy what we take for granted. Slave labor is growing in this country no matter what your education. Do you doubt the validity of the article that started this thread? It didn't have that credance twenty years ago. Yes your doing fine and so am I, the difference is, I'm apalled that at what's happening to the middle class and you, you aren't.

LOL, you ever take any American history classes? Slave labor happened over 100 years ago, really. People worked for practically nothing and lived in crap. If anything, conditions get better over time.

my favorite:

"The USA is "No. 1" in nothing but weaponry, consumer spending, debt, and delusion."...

Well I laughed a bit and some where not surprising, if it is so bad how come so many want to come here? Geez, you would think they would be beating down the doors to get out....