The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

i guess no one had anything to say about my views on gangs and such in this thread, since TJW was the only one to address it on any level. and even he didnt really even say anything on it.

hell prove me right, prove me wrong, but dont just say nothing about it.
(it starts on near top of page 75) right now its my only solid idea of a civil war, or at least great civil unrest and conflict being known and obvious.

Its clear as day that there has been an issued WAR on terrorism where the patriot act was put into effect to be able to allow unwarranted search and closure of all internal suspicious terrorist activity.

Earlier this year I had visited the Anne Coulter speech given at my university and to my amazement it was simply a boasting party of republican ideals through the bashing of democratic ideas.
I quote Anne as saying "Liberals are women", "Terrorists are more likely to be within our country", "We don't need police, we've got college republicans".

Just because you isolate yourself from the awareness of the myriad of factors pointing towards the growing dissonance in our country, does in no way mean that its not occuring(directed towards ThatsJustWeird). There is a line drawn between patriotism and ignorant faith, which is whole heartedly preyed upon by tactical manipulation of our society.

Just because you isolate yourself from the awareness of the myriad of factors pointing towards the growing dissonance in our country, does in no way mean that its not occuring(directed towards ThatsJustWeird). There is a line drawn between patriotism and ignorant faith, which is whole heartedly preyed upon by tactical manipulation of our society.

Wow man....
Please read all of my posts before speculating on my views of this country. Thanks

It'll do two things
1. Stop you from making such incorrect statements
2. Keep this thread moving foward (and on topic)

Just because I don't belive Titor doesn't mean that I -

...no, you know what. I'm just going to let you read my posts on your own....

**
Roth, you're going to have to do a much better job in explaining your articles.
You posted Titor's quote on how the war ISN'T racially motivated. Then you post an article that many can construe as the police being racist.
How are you not contridicting yourself.

**
Grim, throughout all of history, gang wars have NEVER been considered civil wars. It's just not. It's gang violence.
I don't know what esle to say about that.
Civil War:
en.wikipedia.org...
A civil war is a war in which the competing parties are segments of the same country or empire. Civil war is usually a high intensity stage in an unresolved political struggle for national control of state power. As in any war, the conflict may be over other matters such as religion, ethnicity, or distribution of wealth.

Gang Violence
en.wikipedia.org...
Gang violence refers to mostly those illegal and non-political acts of violence perpetrated by gangs against innocent people, property, or other gangs.

Civil Wars are much bigger, happen nationwide unlike gang wars, affect a much larger population, can affect who controls the government, etc.


Murders happen everyday accross this country. Two (or more) different people are involved (two different factions). Does that mean they just engaged in Civil War? No. It was murder.

you dont think that such high levels of organized crime dont have roots in politics? corruption is a hell of a thing.

as ive said these "gang wars" are nation wide. and involve a wide variety of people.

just because the rich arent on the front lines of it doesnt mean they wont eventually be effected. like i said before, during the civil war, was it at their doorstep from day 1? were they afraid to go outside from day 1?

and yes i do believe such organized crime can affect whos in government, not president yet or anything. but im sure a governor race can be affected if they need it to be.

one of the reason for a civil war was 'distribution of wealth' well i think this would explain itself considering that organized crime is looking to make money illegally, saying screw the system.

these arent gang wars anymore. its not two groups of people in a town fighting over some turf to say they are the gang of the town. its much more organized and nation wide then that now. maybe you dont see it because you arent affected by it yet, but its coast to coast. when living in a city area with such organized crime, it affects even those not related or affiliated with the organized crime members.

as i said before. the dictionary definition of a civil war is "A war between factions or regions of the same country." you could see it as different levels of civil war. some minor some major. this is pretty high but (organized crime) because A. its nationwide B. its highly organized, large in numbers, and very dangerous C. it affects a large amount of people in the nation during its battles.

even though their battles are usually nothing more then "armed conflicts" between other factions and police officials, do keep in mind titors definition of a civil war.


[edit on 19-11-2005 by grimreaper797]

grimreaper797 TJW is right on about the gang violence its been apart of western civilization since, well since western civilization has Existed.

A good example of Western Decline would be if the riots in France get worse and spread to other countries. But I don't see this trouble in France as haveing anything to do with USA foriegn policy.

As for Civil war here in the USA, we need to give the New Eminent Domain powers some more time. When the Government comes to take your home and the homes of your nieghbors, for a 7/11, wal-mart, or a jiffy-lube, there gonna be some sparks a flyin.

Congress's current session we/they Extended the tax cuts and they gave themselves a $3100.00 a year raise. Your taxpayer dollars at work here, they are going to wait till the new year to cut Education, Medicaid/Medicare, and food stamp to bring in the new year. Then lets not forget about the lovely un-Patriot Act renewal issues. Personally all this Act does is give the Government much more Rights than they need, have ya heard about Allll the terrorists they have arrested with it? boy, they must befillin up all kinds of prisons with this act, and BTW Gitmo and any other Black op prison around the world does not count because these people have been demmed "Enemy Combatance" by our president and has nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

Anyone wanna make a bet that our US Supreme Court sides on the side of its Citizens anytime soon? If its citizen Vs. Cops, the cops win, if its citizen Vs. Government the government wins, if it corperations Vs citizen the corperation wins.

In the 70's for example Drug testing employees was rule unconstitutional.
Untill now Eminent Domain was for the benifit of All citizens ex: railroads, hiways, sewer or other public works projects. Now thay can take your home for a Mikky D's or any other corp. thats wants to build something on your property....someday this will be huge, and IMHO will get out of hand.

Don't care anymore if Titor was true, or a guy that had good incite to future events.

Just how many people have been killed this year alone because of tazer's bein used on them? How many people worldwide has the USA arrested and is holding worldwide without due process?? How many roadblocks have you had to go threw in the USA this year? were your papers in order?

Jimmy Carter was president of the USA when I was as old as Titor is sopposed to be right now, If you were to quiz me on things that happened then worldwide when I was 7 or 8 how accurate do you think I would be?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
i guess no one had anything to say about my views on gangs and such in this thread, since TJW was the only one to address it on any level. and even he didnt really even say anything on it.

hell prove me right, prove me wrong, but dont just say nothing about it.
(it starts on near top of page 75) right now its my only solid idea of a civil war, or at least great civil unrest and conflict being known and obvious.

maybe every one thought gang violence was such a ridiculous stretch, it didn't even warrant a comment ? thats like saying, "hey, my neighbours argued yesterday ! WWIII is coming !"


duck and cover !!!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, you're going to have to do a much better job in explaining your articles.
You posted Titor's quote on how the war ISN'T racially motivated. Then you post an article that many can construe as the police being racist.
How are you not contridicting yourself.

Oke, I will repeat (in brief) what I have posted on this thread before.

Titor's war is one of the oppressing forces of the Government (we live under right now) against their citizens. In other words a war of majorities vs minorities (not in the sense of quantities but) in the sense of power vs no power, guns vs no guns, UN troops vs no UN troops..... law enforcement against civilians.

John Titor
"The “enemy” that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now."
"Also, please be aware that from my viewpoint, Russia attacked my enemy who was in the U.S. cities."
"They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems.” When they use the word “enemy”, they’re talking about YOU!"

G° : not north and south again was it?
TimeTravel_0 : In 2036, they are our largest trading partner.
TimeTravel_0 : No...more like city against country.'
wyrmkin_37 : majorities against minorities.......
TimeTravel_0 : Yes.
TimeTravel_0 : You know...guns versus no guns.
TimeTravel_0 : Power versus no power.
wyrmkin_37 : time to pour another jack and coke
TimeTravel_0 : Un troops versus no UN troops.

So with the growing intensity of police brutality and deadly taser events it will only be a matter of time until black and white will unite against these forces. And that will be exactly the type of war as described by Titor. That type of conflict is not about taking or holding ground but one about order and rights. That kind of war will go a long way toward erasing racial problems….

John Titor
Q: Is the conflict racial?
JT: “ Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.”

“You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong.”

if you like to consider organized crime nothing more then gang violence, fine see it as you may.

a group of 30 people in a local town, thats a gang. a shooting coming from one of them to another gang because some one said something they didnt like, thats gang violence. i hardly would consider to put 'bloods', 'crips', or 'latin kings' under these categories.

sure gang violence has been around forever, have you ever seen it such an issue, and on such a large scale before though? has this 'gang violence' been a national issue, and has it ever hit home to so many people before?

like i said gang violence, yes always been around, this kind of organized crime, no.

saying this is john titors war would be incorrect, this was simply to show you how easy it would be to be totally oblivious over what john titor would consider a war. in his definition of a civil war, nation wide 'gang violence' would be part of it. just go and look at the definition.

Below, an interesting news article:

John Titor
Q: Will you readily be able to identify the enemy?
JT: "They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process."

www.latimes.com...
2,500 Arrested Before Katrina Are Still in Limbo
At the heart of the problem is a public defender system almost too broke to function.
November 20, 2005

Nearly three months after Katrina struck Louisiana, about 2,500 people arrested on minor charges before the hurricane struck are still in custody. A number of them have never been charged, many are being held beyond the time they were due to be released, and hundreds have never had a court hearing.

Their plight is one of many troubling issues facing the Louisiana court system, where funding for public defenders, among other problems, has been further imperiled by the storm.

When the storm struck, about 8,500 people being held in the New Orleans jails were relocated to facilities throughout — and, in some instances, outside — the state.

A small group of volunteer defense lawyers has filed writs and obtained the release of more than 1,800 of the evacuees, said Phyllis Mann of Alexandria, La., who has been coordinating the effort.

Furthermore, I am sure many of you were already informed about the following "Waco-type" "non-lethal" taser event. The suspect didn't die (yet) but he will be permanently disabled.... And yes he supposedly was a criminal, but haven't we heard that about the Branch Davidians as well?

www.wfmynews2.com...
Police Taser Sets Man On Fire
A man involved in a police chase apparently had gasoline on his clothes, causing him to burst into flames after being hit with a Taser.
October 20, 2005

Cumberland County, NC -- A Cumberland County man is in the hospital, after a police Taser apparently set him on fire.

According to television station WRAL, County deputies say Richard McKinnon was pulled over for a broken taillight in the Lake Upchurch area of Cumberland County. Authorities say McKinnon, also wanted on kidnapping and robbery charges, sped off, drove over a mailbox and hit a tree.

McKinnon apparently had gasoline in the front seat of his vehicle, which splashed on his clothing. When an officer tried apprehend him using a Taser, the weapon set McKinnon's clothing on fire. A Sheriff's department spokesperson says the officer grabbed McKinnon and rolled him on the ground until the flames went out.

McKinnon is listed in critical condition with burns over 70% of his body. So far no charges in the incident have been laid. McKinnon already faces robbery and kidnapping charges in Bladen County. The officer involved has been placed on administrative leave with pay while the investigation continues.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
If nothing else, it sounds like JT is inspiring some people to actually pursue (whether conciously or accidentally), the idea of making their own time machine. Maybe he came back and posted exactly where he knew that scientist would respond and say it wasn't possible, and knew that someone else would see it and say "Yes it is!" and build one. Okay, now I'm stretching it

.

Actually, you could be closer to the truth then you realize.

John Titor
Q: If telling us about your time machine won't change anything, what would happen if someone built one based on your information?
JT: "What you do on your worldline is your own business. I can't think of any better way to start a war than for someone to figure out how to make a time machine. Go for it."

Originally posted by grimreaper797
if you like to consider organized crime nothing more then gang violence, fine see it as you may.

a group of 30 people in a local town, thats a gang. a shooting coming from one of them to another gang because some one said something they didnt like, thats gang violence. i hardly would consider to put 'bloods', 'crips', or 'latin kings' under these categories.

sure gang violence has been around forever, have you ever seen it such an issue, and on such a large scale before though? has this 'gang violence' been a national issue, and has it ever hit home to so many people before?

like i said gang violence, yes always been around, this kind of organized crime, no.

saying this is john titors war would be incorrect, this was simply to show you how easy it would be to be totally oblivious over what john titor would consider a war. in his definition of a civil war, nation wide 'gang violence' would be part of it. just go and look at the definition.

so you are saying the american civil war of 2004, which someone from 2036 would be aware of, might be so small, no one will notice it ?

Here's a question.

If as titor stated the internet is still a big part of life in the future why wouldn't his super secret commando scientist fellas just do a web search, send john back to 2000 in the first place and have him just contact this guy:

www.computercloset.org...

The guy has it in his house for crying out loud.

as for other reasons why titor is fake please see my previous posts in this and every other jt thread.

Or better yet, just find him in the future. If he died in the revolution, heck the computer would be free.

spiderj

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Spiderj]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by grimreaper797
if you like to consider organized crime nothing more then gang violence, fine see it as you may.

a group of 30 people in a local town, thats a gang. a shooting coming from one of them to another gang because some one said something they didnt like, thats gang violence. i hardly would consider to put 'bloods', 'crips', or 'latin kings' under these categories.

sure gang violence has been around forever, have you ever seen it such an issue, and on such a large scale before though? has this 'gang violence' been a national issue, and has it ever hit home to so many people before?

like i said gang violence, yes always been around, this kind of organized crime, no.

saying this is john titors war would be incorrect, this was simply to show you how easy it would be to be totally oblivious over what john titor would consider a war. in his definition of a civil war, nation wide 'gang violence' would be part of it. just go and look at the definition.

so you are saying the american civil war of 2004, which someone from 2036 would be aware of, might be so small, no one will notice it ?

in 2004-2007(2008?) i would have to say yes. but like i said "gang violence" organized crime isnt the civil war hes talking about. though it is a civil war, few actually realize this. whos to say you wont see the next one starting? further more, until it does evolve to a size organized crime couldnt even reach, that you would be oblivious to it? hell i didnt even think about organized crime being considered a civil war till you apply John Titors definition to it. the definition broadens the definition of what a civil war is. plain and simple

Originally posted by Spiderj
Here's a question.

If as titor stated the internet is still a big part of life in the future why wouldn't his super secret commando scientist fellas just do a web search, send john back to 2000 in the first place and have him just contact this guy:

www.computercloset.org...

The guy has it in his house for crying out loud.

as for other reasons why titor is fake please see my previous posts in this and every other jt thread.

Or better yet, just find him in the future. If he died in the revolution, heck the computer would be free.

That same question was asked directly to Titor on January 1, 2001:

Charles Moltrup
Why would you want a IBM 5100 I can find them at auctions for next to nothing, i think they were the first 286 CPU's.
Why didn't you stop in this year first and by one.Well I have a good question for you in 2036 do you still use toliet paper to wipe your ass.

Titor's answer:

John Titor
The 5100 had a very simple and unique feature that IBM did not account for and decided it was not in their best interest to advertise (which in hindsight was not very smart). This accidental feature was thus removed from any future desktop computers. In order to take advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975. Anyone who is familiar with this feature and was told to keep their mouth shut about it will be able to tell you what it is.

Yes we still have toilet tissue and some people still suffer from extreme anal fixation.

Furthermore:

John Titor
I am on my way home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975. I was “sent” to 1975 to get an IBM computer system called the 5100 and take it back to 2036. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology. I am related to a key figure in the development of the IBM 5100.

In my case, my grandfather was directly involved with the building and programming of the 5100. My grandfather worked on it. That’s why I was sent. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it. A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code.

My objective was in 1975 and the reason I'm here now is my family. I am here now for personal reasons. I’m here because of a promise to my grandfather in 1975. I am here because of my family and the interaction I had with them in 1975. No I am not taking them with me [family] but I am trying to prepare them for the future as a promise to my Grandfather in 1975.

John Titor
"It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005."

www.usatoday.com...
Is our faith in government dying?
November 21, 2005

Republicans in the White House and Congress who are facing a host of legal and ethical problems resemble a patient suffering from multiple, but unrelated, ailments who might be able to fight off one affliction but is ultimately killed by the debilitating effects of all of them. This somber diagnosis is based on:

• The indictment of vice presidential aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby for alleged perjury and obstruction of justice in an attempt to discredit a report that cast doubt on Saddam Hussein's efforts to acquire uranium.
• The cloud of suspicion that hangs over White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove in that outing of the ambassador's wife.
• The September indictment in Texas of Tom DeLay, then the majority leader of the U.S. House of Representatives, for allegedly violating the state's campaign finance laws.
• An investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission into the fortuitous timing of the sale of stock of a family corporation by Senate Republican leader Bill Frist.
• The sprawling scandal associated with the recently indicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
• E-mail messages that have come to light revealing that Michael Brown, initially praised by President Bush for the Federal Emergency Management Agency's response to Hurricane Katrina, was more concerned with his wardrobe than with a relief effort in New Orleans.

The most afflicted, however, is not the Bush administration and the congressional Republicans up for re-election in 2006. It is the faith of Americans in their government, and it encompasses the entire range of government activities from disaster relief to the war in Iraq.

In 1975 the retail price of the 5100 was between $8975 to $19,975 depending on memory (16K, 32K, 48K or 64K) and language (APL, BASIC, or both) options
Companion printer IBM 5103, $3675 (132-column dot matrix, 80 characters per second)
Auxiliary tape drive IBM 5106, $2300

(i got that from the computer museum website)

How exactly was titor's grandfather supposed to explain this to the ibm folk, it's not like they had thousands of them rolling off an assembly line like they do now.

Did they send him back with all that cash or did they expect his grandfather to steal the computer. Either way seems like somebody is gonna get fired unless he gets the cash for the computer, ibm was never a charity.

It all goes to the myth, sending him back because of a personal connection with his grand-father, makes for a good story but if all they really needed was the computer there are easier ways to get one. Yes I understand his grandfather helped design it but it still just sounds like good story, not a smart operation.

As for stopping off for personal reasons on his way back to a timeline/reality that may or may not be his own, because of a promise he made to his grandfather in 1975 is just good story, but as far as a military operation it's sloppy. And attempting to prepare them specifically for the coming civil war is a direct contradiction to every reason he gives for not being specific.

If I were running a time travel shotgun brigade patrol thingy, I would keep contact with the past a minimum and contact with family members a strict no-no, but that's just me.

I would think someone with a lot of time on their hands could figure out if a 5100 turned up missing in 1975 and who in the end was blamed.

They also seem well aware that their 5100 was going to need specific tweaks and what those tweaks were, otherwise jt wouldn't know what to ask his grandpa to do. Seems like they had enough bright guys to tweak it themselves.

spiderj

[edit on 11/21/2005 by Spiderj]

Originally posted by Spiderj
They also seem well aware that their 5100 was going to need specific tweaks and what those tweaks were, otherwise jt wouldn't know what to ask his grandpa to do. Seems like they had enough bright guys to tweak it themselves.

Regarding the "money needed for the IBM 5100" I am sure that Titor and his grandfather have worked something out. If Titor was aware that the IBM 5100 was going to need some special tweaks, he most certainly would have prepared himself to make it easy on his grandfather as well, wouldn't you think?

Furthermore, what is the use of all the skills and knowledge in the world if you want to playback a simple 8-track cartridge from the 70's but there are no obsolete 8-track cartridge players around anymore in your world?

John Titor
"Based on what I know about the 5100, it has a few very interesting and worthwhile properties that make it worthwhile for a time traveler to recover. Also, please keep in mind that civilization is recovering from a war. Yes, we do have the technology but many of the tools were lost. "

[edit on 22-11-2005 by Roth Joint]

Furthermore, what is the use of all the skills and knowledge in the world if you want to playback a simple 8-track cartridge from the 70's but there are no obsolete 8-track cartridge players around anymore in your world?

And it is for that very reason I have kept my old 2xl robot from when I was a child, every now and then I pop in my eight track cassette of the Close Encounters soundtrack and just drift away....anyhoo it's all very boys from brazil but in the end that is the greatest thing about the whole titor story.

There is nothing anyone can do to convince me it's true and it seems there is nothing I can say to disuade true believers.

Faith is a powerful force indeed.

SPiderj

Originally posted by Spiderj

Furthermore, what is the use of all the skills and knowledge in the world if you want to playback a simple 8-track cartridge from the 70's but there are no obsolete 8-track cartridge players around anymore in your world?

And it is for that very reason I have kept my old 2xl robot from when I was a child, every now and then I pop in my eight track cassette of the Close Encounters soundtrack and just drift away....anyhoo it's all very boys from brazil but in the end that is the greatest thing about the whole titor story.

There is nothing anyone can do to convince me it's true and it seems there is nothing I can say to disuade true believers.

Faith is a powerful force indeed.

SPiderj

77 pages , and we have gotten exactly nowhere in this discussion, imo. Its like the OJ trial. the glove was either planted, or the smoking gun, dpending on your pov.

.02

The Iran's war is profiling... and they will be surely invaded soon. This will not help with Russia and China relationships with USA and EU... This could bring the West to collapse? Maybe!

One thing is sure is that this will not help the West stability...


[edit on 24-11-2005 by Vitchilo]