The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And with the riots in France... and the riots in Argentina against Bush's administration... I don't know why people in the USA are not doing like those in Argentina against this criminal...
[edit on 5-11-2005 by Vitchilo]

Mabey people here are too scared or feel that there is no need to resort to violence. Civil war or not, violently attacking this problem will be mankind's undoing. No one with the right mind would go out on the street and make a scene like that in the US.

Riots in Argentina? What's the point? Bush is 3000+ miles away, what will they accomplish by doing that? Do they think he even cares? They are looking for an excuse to resort to violence. I think they have their agenda and it's not to overthrow Bush.

GoldEagle

where to hide...

"I have read every page of this thread, I even signed up for ATS because of this thread... and I have stated that I believe that JT was actually a time travelor. "

how do explain the 2 billion metric tons he would need to carry in his suitcase ? if you've read every page of this thread, you know what I'm talking about.....

We know that he's not a real time traveler so stop with this 2 billions metric thing..

Maybe he's just someone who foresee the future...

Theres like a month of 2005 left and.........no civil war! HOAX!

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
where to hide...

how do explain the 2 billion metric tons he would need to carry in his suitcase ? if you've read every page of this thread, you know what I'm talking about.....

I do know what you are talking about. First, I would like a second opinion from someone working at CERN. I feel that perhaps we could find someone at one of the many time travel message boards on the web.

Here's is why I want a second opinion.

Think back to 1969 .... If YOU went back in time and did exactly what JY did. You would talk to the people that you meet and tell them things about their future.

Would you say, one day their will be a computer in every home and vehicle in america and people will talk on phones that have no cords while outdoors anywhere in the world.

Say someone wanted to more research and talked to an engineer. The engineer in 1969 would say thats impossible because we all know that computers are the size of a small warehouse. For a computer to fit in a car the car would have to be able to hold an additional 4,000 lbs (???) and be the size of a Humpback Whale...so thats impossible. Haha, he's a HOAX!

Isn't it true that sometimes when a discovery is made, that it is not in its most efficient form? Think of Atomic Bombs ... they used to be the size of a bus, and now they fit snuggly into a suitcase.

So you think you can use this one man to disprove the science of JT ... well what if this one man is wrong, or maybe he is thinking with a narrow (2005) mind???

This is FAR from Proof for me... sorry please try again!

You have voted Where2Hide2006 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Exactly. This stuff doesnt really make sense and I don't think we have a chance of perfecting time travel in the next 30 years...we can hardly get to the moon without something going wrong, what makes you think we can do something as advanced as time travel? We'd need some sort of flux capacitor!

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
where to hide...

...how do explain the 2 billion metric tons he would need to carry in his suitcase ? if you've read every page of this thread, you know what I'm talking about.....

let me lend a hand here, pls.

the CERN guys created microsingularities by smasshing protons together at near lightspeed, i consider that a canon fact.

so, step by step: these nano-blackholes should have a mass of two protons (conservation principle), but they can still exsit despite their miniscule size, ok?

next is electric charge, simple minded persons would believe that 2 positive particles form another positively charged, umm, entity, i am not sure wether this applies to artificially created black holes, but if it does, the way ahead is much easier, because:

containment (keeping it in its place or an accelerator loop) and injecting electrons are no longer an issue. (unequal charges attract each other, k?) i recall the PhD picking apart JT's time machine stated 2 billion metric tons were required to reliably inject electrons...


so, the final issue is how to enlarge it..which can't be done in the accelerator loop since the mass stated by JT is ~200lbs while the acclelerator is designed for sub-nuclear particles, so that's the main issue for me, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, does it?


just my humble 2c

[edit on 6-11-2005 by Long Lance]

There is a month and a half left in 2005 and yet no civil war. Why is this thread still going on?

Originally posted by Frosty
There is a month and a half left in 2005 and yet no civil war. Why is this thread still going on?

For that exact reason.... Don't count it out before it's time. I can't count how many times I've been playing poker and won it on the very last card. It only takes a moment for the entire world to take a giant 360. January 1st 2006 at midnight we can all stop (except the people who are going with the Olympics thing) and admit it was wrong. Not a moment sooner.


Thank you to Where2Hide2006 for that brilliant analogy with technology of the past, vs today. If one thing is certain, it is that things are going to continue to get smaller and yet more efficient/powerful.

If nothing else, it sounds like JT is inspiring some people to actually pursue (whether conciously or accidentally), the idea of making their own time machine. Maybe he came back and posted exactly where he knew that scientist would respond and say it wasn't possible, and knew that someone else would see it and say "Yes it is!" and build one. Okay, now I'm stretching it .

[edit on 6-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

I find it interesting that despite JT himself saying that while 2005 would see the beginnings of the conflict, 2008 is the year that all will have to accept that things have changed, people continue to refer to this year as the end-all-be-all in disproving him.

2005 has seen the Katrina debacle (which I still have a hard time believing was simply the result of "Brownie's" incompetence), RFID's, open discussion of martial law and the legal structures that surround it, expansion of the Patriot Act and the passing of other "police state legislation," surveillance cameras installed in every major city (I counted 26 on the way to work this past week), mercenaries (Blackwater USA) patrolling an American city, foreign troops on American soil, the expansion of the power, influence, and voice of FEMA, Avian Flu (and with it quarantine discussions, Bioshield II legislation, etc.), and a whole host of other events. When added up, and fast forwarded 30 years, these events could very well be seen as the beginning of the Second Civil War, or as I prefer to call it, the Second Revolution. And as is continually pointed out, there is still more time in 2005 left. Titor himself said that most people would be in denial for the first few years.

Western stability has indeed declined, as Titor said. The Middle East is primed for disaster with Israel, Syria, Iran, India, and Pakistan all accelerating their harsh rhetoric towards eachother. China, Japan, and the Koreas are approaching conflict, armed or not. In Russia, Putin will be leaving office soon, and has said that until the moment he hands over power, he will use whatever means necessary to maintain the status quo. The US has been found to be operating internment camps in Eastern Europe. The UN has virtually lost all influence, and has become the stomping grounds for nations to threaten and bicker with one another. The EU constitution has been rejected by some member nations. Paris is burning. What more needs to happen before people wake up?

Time travel or no time travel, civil war or not, massive change has occured and will continue to occur. Sadly, things will get worse before they get better, regardless of whether a lengthy armed conflict ends up being the driving force to change.

ok where to hide, you have a deal.

find a poster that can verify they work for cern in a technical capacity, and if that poster will unequivocally (why doesn't ats have spell check ?)declare JT's TT machine is not only possible, but possible just 29 years in our future, and 12 years( i think) after a nuclear holocaust, and I'll concede the science is possible.

I find it interesting that despite JT himself saying that while 2005 would see the beginnings of the conflict, 2008 is the year that all will have to accept that things have changed, people continue to refer to this year as the end-all-be-all in disproving him.


JT stated the war starts in 2005. he even defined war as organized troops engaged in combat (or something close to that)

can you demonstrate any of these events ? pictures ? audio ?

I thought is was 2008 it was at everyones doorstep.....not the year it begins

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
JT stated the war starts in 2005. he even defined war as organized troops engaged in combat (or something close to that)

can you demonstrate any of these events ? pictures ? audio ?

I thought is was 2008 it was at everyones doorstep.....not the year it begins

First of all, in my previous post I said that 2008 is when Titor said it would be undeniable, so I agree with you there. As for proof, here is an article about Blackwater USA and their deployment in New Orleans, and here is a clip that talks about the active occupation of New Orleans. Also, Mexican troops were on active duty in the US following Katrina, search google news and I'm sure you can find info on that. This is active military engagement, these are organized troops. There doesn't have to be tanks rolling down main street for there to be an organized military presence on US soil. As for the other things I referenced, if you don't think the president of the US talking openly about martial law and quarantining large portions of the population is highly suspect and would lead to resistance, then there is nothing I can possibly say here to convince you otherwise.

Overall though, you completely missed my point. It doesn't matter if JT was a time traveler, doesn't matter if the science is sound. My point is that he was at the very least a visionary, and while I hope a war won't be necessary to bring an end to the neverending military buildup, escalating foreign policy woes, and rising police state, it certainly doesn't seem out of the question after seeing the past year's events. I find no need to "prove" anything to anyone on this matter, as I think most of us on ATS would agree that things are getting worse. Again, I will stress that it doesn't matter what WE see as a coming conflict, because if Titor is no hoax, then he was speaking of these events as his personal history, that of 30 years in our future. Who knows what will be said of current times and events by then... I'm merely drawing conjecture. There is no denying that 2005 was a year marked with the seeds of conflict- how the conflict may or may not manifest itself is yet to be seen.

Roger Kint

I just would like to know, in which country you do live and how old are you, if you don't mind, of course...

Keep posting!

John Titor
"They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong."

sbindependent.org...
"The World Can’t Wait...and Neither Can You!" Anti-Bush Rally Takes NYC
2005-11-06 17:38.

November 2, 2005: Had you emerged from the Union Square subway station around noon on that day, you'd have been greeted by a blast of chilly air, the cacophony of car horns, bursts of music and chanting, and the truth. "Thousands of people have been killed in Iraq." "Bush is trying to put neo-con fascists on the Supreme Court." "The White House lied to us about the war and terrorism."

......what met my eyes was a mostly young, average, middle class, normal crowd. An astonishing number of high school kids populated Union Square that afternoon, along with the usual contingent of college kids, working stiffs, and veteran activists. The kids impressed me with their sheer presence, and the speakers never failed to praise them. They were so full of energy, so full of hope and idealism, so highly informed about the world around them, so noble in performing their civic duty of dissent…

Nah, we were all just a bunch of pissed off New Yorkers who wanted that bumbling usurper out of the White House and had skipped school or work to raise our collective voices against him. That, and to hoist cool signs.

"War on Terror? War IS Terror!"

"The Shrub needs a trimmin'!"

"George Orwell was off by 21 years!"

Amid an image of a sinking ship: "What's the plan?"

How many innocent Iraqi children have been slaughtered? I can't even comprehend that bloody number, it hurts too much. And yet, the Bu#es continued to hoist their signs exhorting us to "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!" Yet another meaningless marketing slogan.

More truth assailed out ears as Democracy Now! producer Jeremy Scahill took the stage. Instinctively, I wandered closer to the stage--Scahill is, after all, one of the few remaining real journalists in this country. He talked at length about Blackwater Securities Inc., a private security firm (read: mercenaries) working at the behest of the U.S. Government. Theirs is a story of cronyism and murder for profit. As if it weren't bad enough that the U.S. military is being squandered in order to provide Bush and his cronies political and economic profit, firms like Blackwater commit further atrocities in that country, all to make a few bucks.

A round of applause for their courage melted into a rhythmic chant:

"Join us, joins us the world can't wait! Drive…out…the Bush regime!"

I couldn't help wondering if, under different circumstances, the police might've joined our march. Imagining ordinary folks and the cops rebelling against their piggish masters gave me hope that maybe 1984 will indeed remain fictional and not prophetic.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
For that exact reason.... Don't count it out before it's time. I can't count how many times I've been playing poker and won it on the very last card. It only takes a moment for the entire world to take a giant 360. January 1st 2006 at midnight we can all stop (except the people who are going with the Olympics thing) and admit it was wrong. Not a moment sooner.

This thread should have stopped at January 1st 2005

How many times has it been stated in this thread, that Titor corrected himself and said that the war would start in 2004?

John Titor:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.

After he said 2005 in one of his posts someone commented on it and then
John Titor again:

It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant - we all need good critics).

I'm not getting what's so confusing about what he wrote. 2004 is 2004 not 2005.

In that same paragraph he goes on to describe how he views war.
"I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict."
Now if that didn't start in 2004, then he wouldn't have said the war started in 2004.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
[This thread should have stopped at January 1st 2005

How many times has it been stated in this thread, that Titor corrected himself and said that the war would start in 2004?

John Titor:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.

After he said 2005 in one of his posts someone commented on it and then
John Titor again:

It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant - we all need good critics).

I'm not getting what's so confusing about what he wrote. 2004 is 2004 not 2005.

In that same paragraph he goes on to describe how he views war.
"I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict."
Now if that didn't start in 2004, then he wouldn't have said the war started in 2004.

the first death by non-lethal weapon happened late 2004, i know you'd rather pry your tongue out instead of admitting that such kind of homicide is a crime, not an accident and might as well be considered precursory violence.

yes, he said 2004, and IF you used the awkard phrase 'unprovoked violent death' instead of your narrow, politically abused term 'war', you'd see why many people make such an issue out of this..

d'oh new post no info, sorry, but i felt the urge again

Originally posted by Long Lance
the first death by non-lethal weapon happened late 2004, i know you'd rather pry your tongue out instead of admitting that such kind of homicide is a crime, not an accident and might as well be considered precursory violence.

...omg...
Have you been living under a rock for the past 400+ years?
Hold up before I go any further, what do you mean by this? Maybe I'm not reading it right...

(and btw, what does that have to do with Titor's definition of war?)

yes, he said 2004, and IF you used the awkard phrase 'unprovoked violent death' instead of your narrow, politically abused term 'war', you'd see why many people make such an issue out of this..

I quoted Titor buddy, not myself.
That's TITOR'S definition. He's the one who said that not me. Are you calling him a liar?
Does he not know what he's talking about?

You have voted ThatsJustWeird for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


way to keep the thread on topic ! clear and concise. nice post !!

And how many times did JT say that Western Stability would collapse in 2005???


I starting to think that when JT said ... "You should never give anyone your unwavering trust, but you will find that out for yourself in 2005"...

I am starting to think that JT was talking about TJW.