The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Please excuse the double post, 4000 characters just isn't enough for someone as long winded as me. Also, don't take anything I say in argument as being disrespectful, I have respect for both sides of this thing, and am more than willing to hear what anyone has to say about it.

We need to look at the following a little closer:

www.snopes.com...
The electorate in 2004 was not nearly so sharply divided along regional lines, however — an electoral map just makes it appear that way because of the "winner take all" nature of the U.S. electoral system.

An election map with finer gradation (i.e., displaying results on a county-by-county basis rather than a state-by-state one, and providing color shading to reflect the closeness of the vote in each area) produces a better picture of how strongly both candidates in the 2004 election ran even in states which they lost:

What we saw in the 2004 election was more of an urban vs. rural division, regardless of state.

Titor did indeed state that we should observe the county by county map of votes for each candidate, and both the map for 2000 and 2004 are largely similar. One thing you left out of your quote however, strikes very true to my arguement.

the sharpest geographic distinction between the two candidates did not primarily correspond to region but to size of community: Senator John Kerry had a substantial 60%-39% edge in large cities (representing roughly 13% of the total U.S. population), while the reverse was true in rural areas (representing roughly 16% of the total U.S. population), where President Bush garnered a 59%-40% majority.

In this statement, taken from the article you quoted, you can see what I'm saying. The majority of people willing to vote out the administration that is responsible for any of the current policies that correspond to what Titor said would happen in the days leading up to the civil war were actually in the large urban areas.

This is a polar opposite to the situation that Titor claimed to have happened in his world line. Primarily rural areas are bastions of support for the current administration; he claimed that the people in the cities would be the supporters of the regime responsible for the rise of, as he called it, the Federal Empire.

Furthermore, I'd like to add a further thought I have as to the area that Titor allegedly lived. This statement is a huge clue for me.

You've been to Cedar Key? You must be aware I don't know any personal information about you. If I was going to guess, I would say it's important to avoid the rattlesnake or you might be "walking" back to shore. You may be happy to know that although the bridge is gone, Cedar Key is still there."

That rings with so much familiarity that its almost funny, like reacting to someone on an international messageboard talking about the small town of 400 that you yourself live in or near. Of course, there are numerous connections between Titor and Celebration that are too hard to miss. Does anyone else have any ideas as to where Titor lived? According to his story, I've narrowed it down to the area Southwest of Gainesville. Its my best guess. I have family in the area, I'd love to take a film crew down and document the search for Titor

But, that area is my guest best. There are numerous survivalist groups in the area, as well as sabbatist churches, that correlate with Titor's beliefs. Just the thought of it though, its funny that some nature coast boys and people like them would be able to get a time machine going. I wonder if it has a bumber sticker that says "Keep honking buddy, I'm reloading" with Yosemite Sam mud flaps.

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The vast majority of people who feel like their rights are being taken away by the government in exchange for security are living in the cities.

That's not necessarily so. I live in the country, east of Tulsa. I believe you can tell by my posts where I stand. And I am far from alone.

This is what bothers me about what Titor said. He makes the supposition that the people in the country, who voted Republican, are the ones that would be upset with the administrations policies.

Being upset with bad policies knows no partisan bounds...especially when it starts hitting too close to home for the average citizen.

Here is another thought, if a civil war breaks out and people have to flee to the country in order to protect the rights and lives of not only themselves, but their families as well, how quickly do you think a simple matter of demographics could/would change?


You may be seeing the country people in your area cheering for this administration but I am seeing something much different in my area.
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Hello everyone,
I have read some of the posts about Jhon Titor.Maybe someone can help me out.Wouldn't it of been easier for him to take a dna sample of him as a adult and get a dna sample from him when he was a todler in 2000 to 2001 and verify that both are the same.I mean if he wanted to be taken seriously he should of had a tv special, internet thing etc with both him and his younger self draw oput the dna check it right there and settle it once and for all . That way you would have alot more proof that you were from the future.If you had important knowledge from the future i would want substantial proof to get people to believe me.

Also I could be wrong but wasn't this based on a role playing game?Just curious.Another point to ponder certain fantasy/scifi authors have a nitche for alternate history stories like turtledove i believe so its not beyond the realm of possibility that someone who insightfull and inteligent could put together a plausible future timeline.

I heard his time machine uses mini-black holes?Am I right?If so I don't have the link right now but scientists have pretty much ruled out time travel using negative energy sources.

Originally posted by modese7enDoes anyone else have any ideas as to where Titor lived? According to his story, I've narrowed it down to the area Southwest of Gainesville. Its my best guess. I have family in the area, I'd love to take a film crew down and document the search for Titor

If your talking about this worldline, then your way off on where he lives ... Titor did not meet himself in his worldline, but he did in ours, so his family probably moved him away because of his own warnings... I think it is rumored they did that, but I'm not sure.

Ah... The search for Titor. That would make a great film name... let us know when it is done.... would love to see that.

Originally posted by modese7enThis is a polar opposite to the situation that Titor claimed to have happened in his world line. Primarily rural areas are bastions of support for the current administration; he claimed that the people in the cities would be the supporters of the regime responsible for the rise of, as he called it, the Federal Empire.

I do not think it is polar opposite. I wouldn't believe any polls that show other wise due to current propaganda.... If you take for example LockHeed employee's, they strongly support the current administration and the majority of them live in the city. There is more corporations in the city like LockHeed right? Gas prices is going to keep these people closer to their "Federal Empire."

Your giving us country folk a bad impression lol.



[edit on 22-7-2006 by XPhiles]

modese7en:

You logic regarding city/rural polarization is correct if Titor was talking about this.

He didn't state what he was talking about though.

He could have also been talking about a Federal/State Government clash or anhything else for that matter.

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by ShadowEyes
You may be seeing the country people in your area cheering for this administration but I am seeing something much different in my area.

I'm completely prepared to accept that statement. I live just outside the main gate of a major army post, so things in my area right now will be quite skewed. However, I also come from Central Florida, and while there is somewhat of a military presence there, its nothing like it is here. It was the same there, a lot ofsupport for the administration.

What I was arguing was, if you do just what Titor asked and look at the map of county by county votes, you'll see that the votes for the current admin came from rural areas, primarily. Titor made the claim that a government would be in place that would erode the individual freedoms of the citizenry, before 2004, and the crap would hit the fan around 2008, leading to WW3 in 2015. the admin from 2000-2008 is the current administration, and indeed, we have one that is doing many of the things that Titor claimed; which is why I'm still posting about this. But, he seemed to get it backward as far as support for the gov't in the cities. No matter how you look at it, urban areas are overwhemingly voting for the opposition to the administration. Of course, don't get me wrong. I totally understand us country folk (I'm one too, I just like to throw out a little self depricating humor sometimes) aren't all voting red, but I guarantee that I am far outnumbered, no matter if I'm in Fl or where I am now.

Xphiles If your talking about this worldline, then your way off on where he lives ... Titor did not meet himself in his worldline, but he did in ours, so his family probably moved him away because of his own warnings... I think it is rumored they did that, but I'm not sure.

I don't quite follow. I know I saw something about how Titor's alleged parents moved away from Fl during the hurricanes, but he definately said that he lived in FL, on a river with access to the gulf, and seemed very familiar with UF, Cedar Key, and Jax. That would make his home between Gainesville, Ocala, and the Suwannee. In any case, Titor said that he would be in the "fightin' diamondbacks" when he is 13, so he should be back in FL in a few years.

Anyway, I was thinking more about it, and the "fighting diamondbacks" thing made me think of some school mascot, kind of like the wolverines in Red Dawn. So, I got to wondering if maybe Titor wasn't a time traveller, that he got that name from his high school. Now, you know I'm expecting him to live somewhere near Gainesville, Ocala, or Cedar Key. I googled for any high schools in FL that use the diamonback as a mascot and found good 'ol Belleview High, in Belleview, Fl, not a stone's throw south of Ocala. Titor country baby. I don't know, its just a theory. I believe at least that I found the town Titor lives in, or is going to live near, depending on what you believe.

I do not think it is polar opposite. I wouldn't believe any polls that show other wise due to current propaganda.... If you take for example LockHeed employee's, they strongly support the current administration and the majority of them live in the city. There is more corporations in the city like LockHeed right? Gas prices is going to keep these people closer to their "Federal Empire."

I can definately buy this belief. But again, I ask you to take a look at the maps for both the 2000 and 2004 elections. Votes for the opposition to the Bush admin came, primarily, from urban areas like New York, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, etc. These are the places that have the highest concentration of people who do not support the admin that Titor claims leads us to the civil war. Things could change, I suppose, and there could be a population trade. More libs moving out of the cities away from police/military, more cons moving to the cities for jobs. But, time is so short

Originally posted by jumpspace
modese7en:

You logic regarding city/rural polarization is correct if Titor was talking about this.

He didn't state what he was talking about though.

He could have also been talking about a Federal/State Government clash or anhything else for that matter.

Cheers

JS

Wouldn't be a state gov vs. federal gov thing. Titor said he spent time fighting federal and national guard troops, so the federal and state gov'ts were working together against the "rebels."

Originally posted by modese7en
I don't quite follow. I know I saw something about how Titor's alleged parents moved away from Fl during the hurricanes, but he definately said that he lived in FL, on a river with access to the gulf, and seemed very familiar with UF, Cedar Key, and Jax. That would make his home between Gainesville, Ocala, and the Suwannee. In any case, Titor said that he would be in the "fightin' diamondbacks" when he is 13, so he should be back in FL in a few years.

But, time is so short

Right, but that would be where he lived in his worldline. I guess there is a small percent chance of him coming back to Florida in this worldline. Though your on the right trail but wrong worldline. What makes you think he will come back after he warned his family about the future?

I don't think we are on Titor's clock, you have to remember our worldline is much different than Titor's, don't expect everything will be the same. There may be enough time to save the world, or not lol....


[edit on 22-7-2006 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by modese7en

Originally posted by jumpspace
modese7en:

You logic regarding city/rural polarization is correct if Titor was talking about this.

He didn't state what he was talking about though.

He could have also been talking about a Federal/State Government clash or anhything else for that matter.

Cheers

JS

Wouldn't be a state gov vs. federal gov thing. Titor said he spent time fighting federal and national guard troops, so the federal and state gov'ts were working together against the "rebels."

Titor stated:

"From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard"

Can't see he mentions them "working together"

Today, if you go out at night you may want to avoid conflicts with the various gangs, however it is a well known fact that they certainly don't work together.

...however I can see it is easy to assume the National Guard and the Federal Police were working together since it's quite a large transcript.

Cheers

JS

Perhaps the county by county vote was slightly different in Titor's timeline.

I can definately buy this belief. But again, I ask you to take a look at the maps for both the 2000 and 2004 elections. Votes for the opposition to the Bush admin came, primarily, from urban areas like New York, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, etc. These are the places that have the highest concentration of people who do not support the admin that Titor claims leads us to the civil war. Things could change, I suppose, and there could be a population trade. More libs moving out of the cities away from police/military, more cons moving to the cities for jobs. But, time is so short

In our timeline, who is counting the votes? Diebold is counting. Do you trust them?
They make the voting machines, which have no paper trail so that the votes cannot be recounted in a questionable election. They also will not allow inspection of their program because they don't want their 'trade secrets' to be exposed.

These machines have been shown to be very hackable.

According to investigations into the voting fraud, it is being said that the true vote counts in more than one area appear to have been flipped. If this is so, then the areas that looked like they went for the administration actually went the other way.

How can we check that? We can't, there are no paper trails. Funny though, diebold also makes atm's which have no problem giving paper receipts.
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modese7en:
Think about it like this. Who do you think is going to take the 2008 presidential election when it comes to parties? Further more, what do you think will happen when that admistration takes this administrations goals further. When it starts "reforming" home? Do you honestly think the republicans are taking 08?

Another suggestiong is that titor lived in jacksonville. Then moved to the area you are talking about when he turned 8 (2006). On his timeline, his parents move out of the CITY, into a more rural area. I say jacksonville because he says "I remember when the first bombs hit jacksonville", which its normal because it hits home for him then, so he would remember it in particular. The place he grew up just got nuked, thats memorable over the other cities being nuked...a certian sentimental attachment to the area if you would.

Anyway, I cant see people getting up in arms till the democrats come in to the house in 08 and we realize that they are going to push security as much, or more then bush did. Then we will realize that we aren't going back to the days when we thought there was a difference between the republican and democrats. Life just wont be the same.

Also, it would be logical that people in cities vote for Bush because they are mostly manipulated by CNN/FOX terrorist propaganda fear. And the boogeyman is much likely to hit cities, not rural areas, so people are more concerned by those facts.

I think people vote like this...

Rural: vote for democrats because they are not threaten by terrorists in rural areas.
vote for republican because they are redneck and conservatives.
Cities: vote for republican because they fear terrorists
vote for democrats because they vote against Bush.
vote for no-one because both sides are the same crappy people.

But the biggest problem, is people are too partisants, they aren't able to sacrifice their ``side`` to see that both are wrong and corrupt. And they still believe that voting is changing things...

So we can ask ourselves if the numbers are the good ones for either side.

You're conclusion Grimpreaper is very probable, because both sides are bilderberger /skulls and bones/NWO/sold to corporations, so people will really know that republican/democrats are the same crappy thing.

That or Bush become a dictator.


[edit on 22-7-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also, it would be logical that people in cities vote for Bush because they are mostly manipulated by CNN/FOX terrorist propaganda fear. And the boogeyman is much likely to hit cities, not rural areas, so people are more concerned by those facts.

That has NEVER been the case.
Cities are extremely liberal. ALL over the nation. That has always been the case, since the founding of this country.

Cities also have large minority populations and they lean heavily toward voting liberal.
So far terrorism has had little effect on voting as the cities still voted dem, and the rurals still voted repub.

This is all irrelevant anyway as any civil war most certainly won't be because of a political party.
Several reasons (alot I have already stated somewhere in this thread)
1) How can you tell the difference between a dem and repub? They both look like humans to me
2) It's just not worth it. I have yet to meet someone that crazy about politics that they're willing to kill their neighbors over it.
and
3) Even within the politcal parties there is significant differences. If you can't even get your own party together how are you going to fight another party?


Titor even stated it won't be dem vs. repub.

Titor even stated it won't be dem vs. repub.

It will be between those who support a police state in the name of security agains terrorism and those who think that teorrism is a fake agenda.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

So we can ask ourselves if the numbers are the good ones for either side.

You're conclusion Grimpreaper is very probable, because both sides are bilderberger /skulls and bones/NWO/sold to corporations, so people will really know that republican/democrats are the same crappy thing.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Vitchilo]

You make a good point there. Especially when we've seen what seems to be the opposition's refusal to fight back.

But the problem with voting goes even deeper than that. It goes to the rights of a citizen,and those rights being tampered with.

What was it that Titor said about being careful who we trust?
And as for life never being the same again, here is someone who echoes those same sentiments. This person had a job to record what happened in Ohio during election 04.

How the last presidential election awoke me

Linda Byrket's documentary, Video The Vote, provided actual footage of many of the problems. It is a now powerful record of the rain, the lines, the attorneys, people in tears and other general chaos. My own shots were included. Was I at the right place at the right time to see the long lines, etc. or was it the wrong place at the wrong time? Either way, this voter is unhappy about what she witnessed. I do not concede my vote. My life as a US citizen will never be the same.

Because of that film and after attending the hearings, I volunteered to be an official witness of the Election 2004 Recount. I have no special skills in either politics or vote recounts but in an effort to get to the truth behind serious doubts regarding our free and fair election, extra hands were needed and I resolved to make a small difference by merely participating in the election vote recount. I had a very different Christmas season that year and it had a lot to do with the odd coincidence of my living in Columbus, the capital city of Ohio where the swing vote happened.

My assignment was in Ashland County, Ohio, about halfway between Columbus and Cleveland. Because of obstructionist delays by Ohio's Secretary of State, Ken Blackwell, who is also the Co-chair of the Bush/Cheney campaign in Ohio, we weren't able to get a recount done before the electoral vote was cast, but the recount proceeded anyway.

Many people were needed on a moment's notice in the midst of already crowded holiday time. To be frank, I wasn't at all ready for such a job, and I knew it. Yet, the goal was to have each county's recount witnessed. I was told to watch the process and that anything I observed would be valuable information.

I resolved to do my best, overcoming basic hesitations. I didn't have enough time to study the Ohio Recount Law so that I would know all the right questions to ask and I didn't really want to confront officious personalities should I spot an error in the count. Yet, I couldn't seem to get over seeing those long lines and then hearing hours of sworn testimony …as in, under oath to God and country… at public meetings about peoples electronic vote inexplicably switching from Gore to Bush and other frighteningly unacceptable irregularities on election day.


This is only part of the article and it is worth it to read the rest.

DrExtravaganza, I believe you are correct.

It will be between those who support a police state in the name of security agains terrorism and those who think that teorrism is a fake agenda.


It will be between those who are willing to give up essential freedom and liberty for a little temporary security against those who put much more value on their freedom and liberty...and we know how Ben franklin felt about that.
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[edit on 22-7-2006 by ShadowEyes]

[edit on 22-7-2006 by ShadowEyes]

I've tried not to make the mistake of using words like democrat, republican, liberal, conservative, but I seem to have fallen into that trap numerous times in my posts. I guess I should just keep it as simple as possible.

According to Titor's claims, the people in the cities supported the government and their policies of securing the nation at the expense of individual freedoms. That just isn't the case, people in the cities are overwhemingly opposed to the administration and its policies.

Yes, the government is doing some of the things Titor described, but the urban population just isn't supporting it. In fact, the vast majority of support for the government comes from rural areas. Thus, it is my belief that Titor got the whole thing backwards. By Titors own words, city support for the government would be at a high point by now, and those that don't support the gov would be moving out.

Enter the theory that Titor was an anti-Clinton administration militia type. Waco and Ruby Ridge happened on Clinton's watch. Clinton got his support from urban areas. Titor was understandably upset with urban support for the administration that had policies that oppressed other people like him.

I have no doubts that Titor is from the Belleview, Fl area. The highschool's mascot is the "fightin diamondback," its in the area Titor claimed to have lived and fought during and after the war, and its a straight shot down the Fl. turnpike from Celebration, Fl, where the company that wrote and published the John Titor book is hq'd. Not to mention it's roughly half way between Tampa and Jacksonville, via interstate 75/10; two cities Titor mentioned by name, with familiarity, as well as Cedar Key, which is almost due West of Belleview, and is one of the main places that people in the area would visit to go to the beach.

Also, too much about his story rings of Alas Babylon. Most kids in FL have to read this book sometime during their middle/high school years. In addition, another thing about his story doesn't add up. Omaha as the US capital? Omaha is a major city, is served by Offut AFB (home to stategic command, no less), and is surrounded with numerous missle silos. Omaha is considered to be one of the highest priority targets in a nuclear attack. How the hell would Omaha survive to the point that people could rebuild it and prop up a new capitol in such a short time?

modse7en there is a good phrase here for what you are talking about "if you dont make your point known, what makes it any different from the next guys in everyone elses eyes?" Most people may SAY they are against it, but take a second look before you go saying the cities and everything dont support it.

You didnt have to be a believer of the Nazi cause in germany to be guilty of the genocide of the jews. Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean anything if you don't prove it when the time comes. For us, the time is now, and a majority aren't proving they are against it...so what makes them any different then the next supporter of bush? They may be morally against it, but they aren't acting on it, so what difference is between them and the next guy.

No action taken can be just as bad as the person taking the negative action.

also modese7en do keep in mind something. This guy was smart enough to make a story that would last for years after, and come with all sorts of pictures that aren't exactly of the worst quality. He came after bush was voted in as president. You think that he would make such a stupid mistake about the red verse blue states?

Bush was republican, rural is republican, so the cities would not support him. Yet in titors story a majority support this campaign...why? 2 ways. 1 would be that they are scared and dont care about parties. 2(more likely) when the democratic president gets elected in 08, s/he is just worried about securing our nation (much like bush actually) and keeping this country from breaking apart politically, like it seems to be doing these days.

Titor couldnt be more right about the 08 president. The New lincoln. Politics is dividing this nation in a clear cut way, much like the civil war times. s/he will be like lincoln because she will be trying desperately to keep the political fighting down, which has thus engulfed our nation.

I just dont think titor was stupid enough in his story to trip up on basic politics.

DrExtravaganza, I believe you are correct.

It will be between those who support a police state in the name of security agains terrorism and those who think that teorrism is a fake agenda.


It will be between those who are willing to give up essential freedom and liberty for a little temporary security against those who put much more value on their freedom and liberty...and we know how Ben franklin felt about that.



After making the above post the thought crossed my mind that perhaps it would be best to point out the possibility of a police state taking hold in the U.S.

Top ten signs of the impending U.S. police state

High crimes and low comedy in the Bush Imperium

Ridin the bus with Deborah

How America is rapidly becoming a police state

The war on terror fog

Police state files: Cracking down on dissent in the name of anti-terrorism

Police state methods no answer to terror

A criminal administration

The imperious president


It appears that this same thought has crossed more minds than just mine.
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[edit on 23-7-2006 by ShadowEyes]

It seems potential barriers between intersecting worldlines, politics and social behavior is becoming blurred here. The fountainhead of faulty politics is upon us.

modese7en... I think it's more about the plummeting social, economic and political configurations in the U.S.

What opens the door to future aggression? is it...

Media propaganda.
Random Searches.
Unregulated Use of Weapons.....
Erosion of constitutional rights
Proliferation of Surveillance Devices....
list goes on and on.............................

reality tv ?



[edit on 23-7-2006 by XPhiles]