Hong Kong is about to tip over

originally posted by: fedeykin
a reply to: ArMaP

Your signature says to correct you if you are wrong.

You are wrong about the protestors escalating in this situation. The use of live ammunition is the literal definition of escalation.

Implying that fires in a protest are escalation enough for the legitimate use of live ammunition is simply breathtakingly ignorant.

Well... IN the US, if someone tries to burn your house down or steal from you (business or personal), you are quite in your right to stop them by use of deadly force.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Agit8dChop

I think that there will come a time when China no longer cares about optics and violently suppresses the people of Hong Kong.

They are a communist regime, it's not like they have a history of allowing freedoms to protest.

I actually agree with you. China doesn't care about how this looks to the world. They will scrub it clean in the history books. The military is there waiting on one single cry for help from Carrie Lam. Once that happens HK surrenders any and all control to PRC and Jinping will kill or disappear every protester until the streets are scrubbed clean. He knows that no other country dare interfere.

And once HK is brought into the fold, Tai Wan is next.

originally posted by: fedeykin
You are wrong about the protestors escalating in this situation. The use of live ammunition is the literal definition of escalation.

What I meant was that the first demonstrations were peaceful, then the protesters started destroying things and attacking the police with Molotov cocktails, and the police responded with more violence.

Implying that fires in a protest are escalation enough for the legitimate use of live ammunition is simply breathtakingly ignorant.

I didn't imply any thing.

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: Agit8dChop

The protesters are escalating the violence, they are getting back violence, as expected.

Destroying other people's property is not the right way to fight for freedom (if that's what they are fighting for).

Yes indeed, i don't like the fact that they refuse to accept the rescinded deportation to the mainland law.

They switched to just police brutality which amplifies the whole situation, entering into a whole new arena from the original issue. However let's be fair it's all very inside out upside down now as for sure china would likely pick up where they left of sooner or later.

As for the shooting itself I'm really perplexed at this because the protesters where really setting about the policemen with metal bars - he was copping it big time, i think if i was getting violently viciously attacked as he was I'd be reaching for the holster to - whether i discharged so quickly though remains uncertain but i can certainly see the temptation in the heat of the moment.

I think possibly although the original cause was commendable the train is derailing of the right track only warranting harsher responses from the government.

End of day- if they truly want freedom i think a speedy exit from chinese soil is a must.

a reply to: ArMaP

I agreed in the beginning fight as long as that ridiculous law was being debated..

But the government suspended it, then killed it.

There should have been no violence at that point.

Unfortunately, the cat is out of the bag - China's still going to detain and extradite - they just wont do it via the courts.

The Hong Kong people are now fighting for total independence from China (I think)..

It wont end well...

I hope to hell the US do not get involved and start helping protesters - that would be a big mistep.

When the protesters starting taking over airports, that went too far.

a reply to: ArMaP

I've had personal experience with violent agitators getting involved with peaceful demonstrations and turning them into something they were not.

To this day I'm not convinced they actually had anything to do with trying to stop the war in Vietnam. But that was a time of dirty tricks. I don't suppose China would engage in that.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: fedeykin
You are wrong about the protestors escalating in this situation. The use of live ammunition is the literal definition of escalation.

What I meant was that the first demonstrations were peaceful, then the protesters started destroying things and attacking the police with Molotov cocktails, and the police responded with more violence.

Implying that fires in a protest are escalation enough for the legitimate use of live ammunition is simply breathtakingly ignorant.

I didn't imply any thing.

No.

While the protests were still peaceful, Beijing (or Lam) hired thugs to beat protesters while the police stood by and watched. One of the protesters' main demands is that those police get independently investigated. Lam said no, they can investigate themselves. Then the police beat random protesters on the subway including unrelated commuters who just happened to have on black shirts.

This is not so simple as you wish it to be. The police and government escalated every single step of the way before the protesters did.

Why anyone would be a communist sympathizer is beyond me.

We can only hope that this will spread to whole China. It is now or never. It's just a matter of time till chinese will start controlling their people emotions making any revolution much harder.

originally posted by: Halfswede

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: fedeykin
You are wrong about the protestors escalating in this situation. The use of live ammunition is the literal definition of escalation.

What I meant was that the first demonstrations were peaceful, then the protesters started destroying things and attacking the police with Molotov cocktails, and the police responded with more violence.

Implying that fires in a protest are escalation enough for the legitimate use of live ammunition is simply breathtakingly ignorant.

I didn't imply any thing.

Why anyone would be a communist sympathizer is beyond me.

"No"

It's about respect for life no matter who's it is.

I don't think I've ever seen any communist sympathizing here on ATS ever.

originally posted by: Halfswede
Why anyone would be a communist sympathizer is beyond me.

The question here is not communism, we are talking about specific actions.

These poor Chinese see Americans do this and the cops just watch and the media props them up.

The Chinese dont play and will bring down the mob by any means necessary.
To the rest of China these are spoiled millenials

,

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Halfswede
Why anyone would be a communist sympathizer is beyond me.

The question here is not communism, we are talking about specific actions.

So why don't you address the specific actions I mentioned that clearly escalated the situation to violence before the protesters did? You literally ignored evidence and accepted ignorance.

a reply to: Halfswede

You posted some text, with no references, should I just accept what you say as facts?

As for accepting ignorance, what did I accept that you consider ignorance?

originally posted by: StallionDuck


Well... IN the US, if someone tries to burn your house down or steal from you (business or personal), you are quite in your right to stop them by use of deadly force.

The use of deadly force by a government against its citizens is a whole different story. This is the kind of escalation that leads to increased violence, while the job of police is to deescalate, not start a civil war.

Shots fired at demonstrations has led to several civil wars in the last few decades. This is how the war in Syria started. This is how all the craziness in the Ukraine started.

Translation: Every protestor can now be detained.

so, there's a sign flashing across twitch about the new ''no mask law''

whats interesting is it comes into effect at midnight... thats in just over 4 hours.

There are a lot of people on the feeds wearing the medical masks and still covering their faces.

It will be interesting what happens when midnight comes, if the protesters are causing any kind of ruckus... will the exemption for ''medical masks'' be allowed for protesters with no real medical need?

So far this morning... vandalism, looting, arson and now they are attacking and beating a transportation worker.

No sympathy at all from me... they just lost it.

At this point, any and all means to restore law and order that are necessary should be used.

originally posted by: dragonlover12
So far this morning... vandalism, looting, arson and now they are attacking and beating a transportation worker.

No sympathy at all from me... they just lost it.

At this point, any and all means to restore law and order that are necessary should be used.

It does make one wonder doesn't it.

There was a Brit on the radio who'd spent years in China and he was full of praise for China.
To roughly quote him.......................

"Everything works, everyone works. Great infrastructure. No litter whatsover. No crime at all. People have respect for each other and their country. You can leave a 6 foot mirror in front of your house and nobody will ever break it due to anti-social behaviour. China works."

a reply to: dragonlover12

Do you have a source for that?

Thanks in advance.