Skeptics Have Provided No Proof To Support Their Belief That Aliens Are Not Visiting Us

a reply to: EartOccupant

While I didn't place a great deal of thought into my choice of words as my post was conversational, I'm happy to flesh out my intended meaning.

I simply meant to imply finding evidence that cannot be excluded by known quantities such as planets, satellites, planes, natural phenomena, artifacting, lens flare, double exposure, deceptive editing and so forth.

If evidence passes that level of scrutiny then what's left would be exciting and worthy of discussion.

Hope that helps.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

I’m trying to help you skeptics out here.

I have an enormous advantage on you because I have seen their craft from fairly close range. I know it was a machine and not mad made. That means it was made by someone else. Somewhere else.

You know it was a machine, but you do NOT know it wasn't man made nor do you know it was made "somewhere else," i.e.: not Earth. Those are both assumptions on your part.

And why are skeptics so interested in threads about UFOs and aliens in the first place? Is it really that important to make sure everyone knows that you don't subscribe to our beliefs lest someone think you're one of us? Me thinks they do protest too much.

a reply to: Hefficide

Fair enough!

I do however wonder what in this day and age counts as "evidence".

I think, unless you have a personal experience, it comes to believe or not to believe. Even a UFO wreckage on TV .. well what does it proof? It prove your TV is in working order. Nothing more.

And based on that, you (and I) get a nice dilemma.

Is it reasonable to expect irrefutable and pristine proof?
Is it reasonable to dismiss ALL accounts of people who tell about their experiences beyond your believe system? (It's all or nothing, as one is enough!)
Is their a middle road?

So long story short.. The Burden of proof... might not be in the corner most people expect.

PS. I did notice you were "citing" about previous experience and not specifically about yourself. Also my "you" in the above, is to be read as a universal person.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that SOME of the blades of grass in the world were not transplanted, fully-grown by invisible, magic gnomes. Nobody has provided a shred of proof yet!

ATS 2019 people.

ATS 2019.

ATS.

2019.

a reply to: dogstar23

That's very strange as there are countless historical reports, myths, books, clay tablets, oral stories, engravings, rock paintings, oil paintings, photographs, video, broadcasts and some channeling about blades of Grass,

But you already knew that.

originally posted by: Hefficide
You know it's funny. Over the years I've spoken to quite a few of the skeptics, here and elsewhere and without a single exception I can assure you that they, more than most, desperately want to find that bit of evidence that is irrefutable and pristine.

Day in and day out some of these folks invest an unbelievable amount of time and personal expense toward analyzing pictures and videos to exclude the hoaxes and false positives.

They do this with the same passion for the subject that the folks who just come here and read probably have.

Sadly their work often is not only unappreciated, but actually used as grounds for insult.

Yeah... Some folks to simply pop in and say "Not real losers lulz" just as some others will argue that proven hoaxes are real.

Taking this sort of adversarial position on a topic that has no known definite answer helps neither side.

I somehow managed to miss your post. Well put and good point. The skeptics have indeed played an important part in keeping us honest.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: ausername
How could skeptics present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us, when there is no hard, irrefutable evidence that "aliens" are visiting us?

As I said...there is much more evidence that aliens are visiting us than evidence that they are not.

Actually, no, there is not. The biggest flaw is your assumption that we are dealing with "aliens." There is definitely a "phenomenon" of some sort. The Navy videos prove that well enough. I would fault skeptics for dismissing then out of hand. But that someone took pictures of a "tic tac" UFO or a "Gimbal" or a flying triangle does not mean "aliens" at all. Not even a little bit. So you have to back up at least that far.

I have to disagree with your comment: " I would fault skeptics for dismissing then out of hand." That's disingenuous because what makes a skeptic a skeptic is a reliance on irrefutable evidence. When it's not produced, the claimant loses. So any believer that says we got aliens in UFOs is not speaking truth but a simple belief. And you know where that's at.

And Billy Meiers? No, just no. It would take longer than I m willing to spend here telling you what is wrong with Billy. We can start with his UFO Ray Gun, found to be a Chinese toy on e-Bay. Then there is "Semjase," who looks remarkably like an actress who appeared on the Donna Read show. Then there is his picture of a dinosaur, ripped out of a book that is still in print. The guy is a nutcase. Please don't use Billy as any sort of proof here. It just shows your ignorance.

While I do not want to derail the thread and discuss Meier, like in the JFK assassination there are many unanswered questions. Let's leave it at that.

a reply to: Hunkadinka

reliance on irrefutable evidence.

Please be so kind to provide me with an example of what you or "skeptics" would accept as irrefutable evidence.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

It would be disappointing if it were shown that we are alone in the universe.

When I watch a magic show, I want to believe that the magician is real and using real magic.

I do believe that real magic exists.

It's the same when any topic comes up about aliens.

They do exist, they are here. Because I believe they are. Because it would be mathematically impossible for us to be all alone.

I believe in mysteries.

originally posted by: schuyler
originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: ausername
How could skeptics present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us, when there is no hard, irrefutable evidence that "aliens" are visiting us?
And Billy Meiers? No, just no. It would take longer than I m willing to spend here telling you what is wrong with Billy. We can start with his UFO Ray Gun, found to be a Chinese toy on e-Bay. Then there is "Semjase," who looks remarkably like an actress who appeared on the Donna Read show. Then there is his picture of a dinosaur, ripped out of a book that is still in print. The guy is a nutcase. Please don't use Billy as any sort of proof here. It just shows your ignorance.

Betty Andreasson Luca has provided very provocative evidence of 4th kind encounters; so also has Betty and Barney Hill, so also has Enoch so also has Leonardo DaVinci, (whisked away for 2 years by others) so also has Isaiah....

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
Skepticism can work both ways.
And so far these self important skeptics have failed to present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us. And until these skeptics provide the proof necessary to support their unsubstantiated beliefs they will remain just that....beliefs.

Skeptics/believers,
What does it really mean is the cry. One man's/woman's skepticism is not necessarily another man's skepticism, just as one man's beliefs are not the same as another man's/woman's beliefs even if the subject matter is the same.

Why do you think the like of the History channel and Nat Geo get so much mileage out of basically nothing but to show other than what passes as tongue-in-cheek entertainment, as 'educational' without actually saying that word.

The thing is,
What do you know that is actually fact, or is it something factional..events may even be real, what caused the events however, is a matter of discourse....you could go on forever with said discourse...look how long the 'No Mooner's syndrome has gone on for the, 'Flat Earther's' and the like of MH370 while the ISS is not really in space....it just goes on and on.

The only arbiter of truth in this context then is yourself, and that will take a lot of decent research on your part, and maybe a deal of help to make any sort of case.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

What has gotten into you? Are you drunk 24-7 now? You do not seem to be SmartyPants.

You can't prove a negative- surely you know this. Not to mention, that the responsibility is on the person making the dubious claim to PROVE the dubious claim.

I've been levitating every morning, 6 feet off of the floor, this entire week. Prove I haven't been! Oh, you can't prove I haven't been levitating? See! That proves I have been levitating!

😕😕😕

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: schuyler
originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: ausername
How could skeptics present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us, when there is no hard, irrefutable evidence that "aliens" are visiting us?
And Billy Meiers? No, just no. It would take longer than I m willing to spend here telling you what is wrong with Billy. We can start with his UFO Ray Gun, found to be a Chinese toy on e-Bay. Then there is "Semjase," who looks remarkably like an actress who appeared on the Donna Read show. Then there is his picture of a dinosaur, ripped out of a book that is still in print. The guy is a nutcase. Please don't use Billy as any sort of proof here. It just shows your ignorance.

Betty Andreasson Luca has provided very provocative evidence of 4th kind encounters; so also has Betty and Barney Hill, so also has Enoch so also has Leonardo DaVinci, (whisked away for 2 years by others) so also has Isaiah....

What evidence has Betty Andreasson provided? She's been hypnotized and her sessions have been recorded. Is THAT the evidence you're talking about? Because many, many people would NOT consider things said under "hypnotic regression" to be evidence. So is there some other evidence she has provided?

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

I’m trying to help you skeptics out here.

I have an enormous advantage on you because I have seen their craft from fairly close range. I know it was a machine and not mad made. That means it was made by someone else. Somewhere else.

I was extremely lucky to have seen it. You have to be looking in the right spot at the right time. Because they do not make any noise and you would never know it was there otherwise.

Now I cannot show it to you, so all I can do is describe it to you. And that comes with the knowledge and certainty that indeed, They are here. They were here before we were born.

The question is not whether they are here or not – the question is - what are they doing?

If anyone wants an ONUS – That should be it.
It should be up to all of us to speculate WHY they are here.

Being all guesswork, it may not get us anywhere, but it would surely be better than stumbling over the first step over and over, of are they here?

Those of us who have seen evidence of them continually have to hold the hand of the rest of you to get you over that first step. If you want to believe in something, you can believe THAT is frustrating as all get out.

Just open up a second mind set. Tell yourself, “Okay, what if they are here.”

Then look at all the accumulated evidence and start thinking what if some of it is real.

Then piece it together and see where the story goes.

Those of us who have made that first step do not know all the answers; we have to piece together the puzzle too. Our advantage is that we have made that first step.

So skeptics – take the step – and tell us what you think ET is doing on Earth.

You don't have an advantage on me, I have one on you because my closeup sighting was before yours, I'm assuming.

First, I'm a skeptic, always will be. But an open-minded one and I've seen UAP, some better than most sightings. Like you I had a life-changing sighting that made my arms shake and I had to walk to a nearby waist-high fence to rest them for steadiness. In the early 1980s I was visiting friends in Santa Ana, Calif. I went to their backyard with my 7-12X zoom binoculars. Through the open space between properties I could see the mountains to the east. I scanned the mountains just for the hell of it. Then I saw what made my arms tremble: a classic-shaped "craft" hovering low and seemingly riding invisible gentle waves. I had to move to the low fence to steady my arms but the object was no longer there. The view was clear and sharp and there was no doubt as to what I had seen. Up until that moment I had always wondered what people were seeing and not being a believer I could not have an opinion either way. After that sighting I had an opinion and I knew, no more wondering.

As to "they", drop it. You believe in "they" without proof. You extrapolate, I don't. Don't make yourself a spokesperson, it doesn't fit. You have to keep an open mind but don't go overboard with belief. Belief-less is preferable to believer. Trust me, I know.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

I appreciate you attitude with respect to finding out the truth about extraterrestrials.

However, I just want to point out you can't prove a negative. For example, I can't prove that at some point monkeys will never fly out of my butt. I can't prove it. It's very unlikely. It may happen in the future. But I can't prove that it will never happen.

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

I’m trying to help you skeptics out here.

I have an enormous advantage on you because I have seen their craft from fairly close range. I know it was a machine and not mad made. That means it was made by someone else. Somewhere else.

I was extremely lucky to have seen it. You have to be looking in the right spot at the right time. Because they do not make any noise and you would never know it was there otherwise.

Now I cannot show it to you, so all I can do is describe it to you. And that comes with the knowledge and certainty that indeed, They are here. They were here before we were born.

The question is not whether they are here or not – the question is - what are they doing?

If anyone wants an ONUS – That should be it.
It should be up to all of us to speculate WHY they are here.

Being all guesswork, it may not get us anywhere, but it would surely be better than stumbling over the first step over and over, of are they here?

Those of us who have seen evidence of them continually have to hold the hand of the rest of you to get you over that first step. If you want to believe in something, you can believe THAT is frustrating as all get out.

Just open up a second mind set. Tell yourself, “Okay, what if they are here.”

Then look at all the accumulated evidence and start thinking what if some of it is real.

Then piece it together and see where the story goes.

Those of us who have made that first step do not know all the answers; we have to piece together the puzzle too. Our advantage is that we have made that first step.

So skeptics – take the step – and tell us what you think ET is doing on Earth.

You don't have an advantage on me, I have one on you because my closeup sighting was before yours, I'm assuming.

First, I'm a skeptic, always will be. But an ope-minded one and I've seen UAP some better than most. Like you I had a sighting that made my arms shake and I had to walk to a nearby waist-high fence to rest them for steadyness. In the early 1980s I was visiting friends in Santa Ana, Calif. I went to their backyard with my 7-12X zoom binoculars. Through the open space between properties I could see the mountains to the east. I scanned the mountains just for the hell of it. Then I saw what made my arms tremble: a classic-shaped "craft" hovering low and seemingly riding invisible gentle waves. I had to move to the low fence to steady my arms but the object was no longer there. The view was clear and sharp and there was no doubt as to what I had seen. Up until that moment I had always wondered what people were seeing and not being a believer I could not have an opinion either way. After that sighting I had an opinion and I knew, no more wondering.

As to "they", drop it. You believe in "they" without proof. You extrapolate, I don't. Don't make yourself a spokesperson, it doesn't fit. You have to keep an open mind but don't go overboard with belief. Belief-less is preferable to believer. Trust me, I know.

If we are all honest the thought of an extraterrestrial standing in front of us evokes a deep, primal fear due to their sheer otherness.
However, where is your proof that the military pilots didn't observe these UFOs to be precisely as they described. And where is your proof that when these same pilots say that no human on earth has developed the technology to do the things they say the UFOs did, that they are lying or that we do have the technology and they don't know about it?
If you have this proof you should share it with the world. Or is it that you just don't believe them because that's just how they do and you're just sure of it? That whole Meiers, Adamski, Gulf Breeze stuff left a bad taste in my mouth too and actually led me to being a skeptic for a number of years...so I appreciate where your coming from.
I respect that you don't just pop in for one derogatory post and disappear but rather you stick around to express your point of view. I look forward to sparring with you.

originally posted by: EartOccupant
a reply to: Hunkadinka

reliance on irrefutable evidence.

Please be so kind to provide me with an example of what you or "skeptics" would accept as irrefutable evidence.

The best examples of irrefutable evidence are the Phoenix flares and the Roswell non-UFO crash.

As I've shown on another thread with a video, it was proved visually that no UFO(s) was seen near Phoenix, it was the result of a military flare-dropping exercise. The night/day comparison video was irrefutable proof.

The Roswell UFO crash myth was simply a secret project to detect Russian nuclear detonations You only have to rely on "Mac" Brazel's testimony and found debris. No UFO crash and no bodies.

Wikipedia

In the summer of 1947 a Project Mogul balloon, probably NYU Flight 4 launched June 4, 1947,[1] crashed in the desert near Roswell, New Mexico. The subsequent military cover-up of the true nature of the balloon and burgeoning conspiracy theories from UFO enthusiasts led to a celebrated "UFO" incident.[3]

Unlike a weather balloon, the Project Mogul paraphernalia was massive and contained unusual types of materials, according to research conducted by The New York Times: "...squadrons of big balloons ... It was like having an elephant in your backyard and hoping that no one would notice it. ... To the untrained eye, the reflectors looked extremely odd, a geometrical hash of lightweight sticks and sharp angles made of metal foil. .. photographs of it, taken in 1947 and published in newspapers, show bits and pieces of what are obviously collapsed balloons and radar reflectors."[4]

Irrefutable evidence: What Brazel found, what was gathered at the site, what was seen in the photos, what is in storage.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

I’m trying to help you skeptics out here.

I have an enormous advantage on you because I have seen their craft from fairly close range. I know it was a machine and not mad made. That means it was made by someone else. Somewhere else.

I was extremely lucky to have seen it. You have to be looking in the right spot at the right time. Because they do not make any noise and you would never know it was there otherwise.

Now I cannot show it to you, so all I can do is describe it to you. And that comes with the knowledge and certainty that indeed, They are here. They were here before we were born.

The question is not whether they are here or not – the question is - what are they doing?

If anyone wants an ONUS – That should be it.
It should be up to all of us to speculate WHY they are here.

Being all guesswork, it may not get us anywhere, but it would surely be better than stumbling over the first step over and over, of are they here?

Those of us who have seen evidence of them continually have to hold the hand of the rest of you to get you over that first step. If you want to believe in something, you can believe THAT is frustrating as all get out.

Just open up a second mind set. Tell yourself, “Okay, what if they are here.”

Then look at all the accumulated evidence and start thinking what if some of it is real.

Then piece it together and see where the story goes.

Those of us who have made that first step do not know all the answers; we have to piece together the puzzle too. Our advantage is that we have made that first step.

So skeptics – take the step – and tell us what you think ET is doing on Earth.

Pics please.
Or something as substantial as pics .
Nothing grainy or from YouTube.

Anything in the air can be a UFO .
Until it is identified.
Just not "E.T."
E.T. phoned home and returned years ago....
How 'bout that ?